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Precision induction: Tasty Onetop

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On 1/11/2018 at 5:58 PM, ElsieD said:

I also got a message that the surface temperature of 410 had been reached.  I assume that is as hot as the TT gets?  Anyone know what that means?  Why can you set the surface temperature?

 

Glad to see those improved results! Thanks for doing all this testing.

 

The manual lists 410F as a maximum temperature, IIRC. 

 

As for why you can set the surface temp -- it's for cooking things without measurable liquid (with the probe unplugged). Useful for e.g. scrambling eggs gently, or making pancakes or grilled cheeses. The little metal dot in the middle measures the temperature of the pan directly. Less accurate, of course, but I actually find it pretty helpful.

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One good use for the surface sensor: pressure cookers. I dug my Fagor Duo -- which I basically quit using when I moved into my condo with an electric stove -- out of storage, and did a water test today. Setting a surface temperature of 267F resulted in a nice, reliable burble from the valve. I lost about half a cup of water over a ~15 minute cook and natural release, but I suspect a lot of that was when I was adjusting the temperature. 

 

Not quite as "set-and-forget" as my Instant Pot, but pretty close, and the extra capacity will be nice to have. Will probably try a recipe in it tonight or tomorrow.


Edited by dtremit (log)
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6 hours ago, dtremit said:

One good use for the surface sensor: pressure cookers. I dug my Fagor Duo -- which I basically quit using when I moved into my condo with an electric stove -- out of storage, and did a water test today. Setting a surface temperature of 267F resulted in a nice, reliable burble from the valve. I lost about half a cup of water over a ~15 minute cook and natural release, but I suspect a lot of that was when I was adjusting the temperature. 

 

Not quite as "set-and-forget" as my Instant Pot, but pretty close, and the extra capacity will be nice to have. Will probably try a recipe in it tonight or tomorrow.

 

I'm not sure what to make of this.  If the PC is burbling, and it's an Xpsi unit, don't you already know the water temperature at sea level?  If you're at altitude, it might be slightly lower, but it's a known, right?

 

Also, these button thermocouples are measuring the outside  bottoms where the heat is induced, not the interface temp or the temperature of the food.  Is there some algorithm that converts  into a floor surface temperature?  If so, does the algorithm know the difference between a cast iron pan and a thick clad one like Proline?

 

It would be interesting to compare temperature readings from the button with those from a good contact probe inside across a range of pans.

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26 minutes ago, boilsover said:

I'm not sure what to make of this.  If the PC is burbling, and it's an Xpsi unit, don't you already know the water temperature at sea level?  If you're at altitude, it might be slightly lower, but it's a known, right?

 

The value here is not control of internal temperature (which is regulated by the pressure valve) but ease of use. Setting a consistent pan temperature (rather than a consistent burner output) means less overshoot, and therefore less liquid lost through the pressure valve. And in a purely practical sense, it means less time fiddling with the burner.

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1 hour ago, dtremit said:

 

The value here is not control of internal temperature (which is regulated by the pressure valve) but ease of use. Setting a consistent pan temperature (rather than a consistent burner output) means less overshoot, and therefore less liquid lost through the pressure valve. And in a purely practical sense, it means less time fiddling with the burner.

The better question is:  Consistent with what?  PICs have heretofore been wildly INconsistent with their temperature settings, even if they are repeatable between uses.  In the typical PICs, the temperature settings have been a joke.  What makes this one different?

 

If you set 267F at the controls, what confidence do you have that it means 267F in the pan?

 

Frankly, I'd rather have an arbitrary numerical setting that I've vetted than a false temperature setting.  But if this appliance is accurate, then it could change my mind.  Seems easy enough to test...


Edited by boilsover (log)

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20 minutes ago, boilsover said:

If you set 267F at the controls, what confidence do you have that it means 267F in the pan?

 

Frankly, I'd rather have an arbitrary numerical setting that I've vetted than a false temperature setting.

 

In this case, I am essentially using surface temperature as an arbitrary numerical setting. You could replace the surface temperature controls with a color wheel and I'd be just as pleased.

 

I'm just stating that the surface sensor regulates the pressure cooker better than any standard radiant or induction burner I've used in the past.

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12 minutes ago, dtremit said:

In this case, I am essentially using surface temperature as an arbitrary numerical setting.

 

OK, I get it.  You're using the temperature setting as the arbitrary numerical setting, even if it's objectively inaccurate.  I even get that, e.g., if the setting of 267F is lower than the setting of 286F, that might be valuable regardless. 

 

I just like to acknowledge arbitrary things as being arbitrary, rather than thinking that a sharp, pointy-number temperature setting is true.  This stuff tempts users to think and talk and judge like they have beaucoup accuracy and precision, when maybe they don't.  When they share temps for preps between owners of a different brand/model with a different sensor or algorithm (ControlFreak, Cue, etc.), what?  Someone's an idiot?  Everyone should buy the Tasty Cookbook because only that works true to their readings?   Sounds like political discourse more than science.  I just want to cook.

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4 minutes ago, boilsover said:

 

OK, I get it.  You're using the temperature setting as the arbitrary numerical setting, even if it's objectively inaccurate.  I even get that, e.g., if the setting of 267F is lower than the setting of 286F, that might be valuable regardless. 

 

I just like to acknowledge arbitrary things as being arbitrary, rather than thinking that a sharp, pointy-number temperature setting is true.  This stuff tempts users to think and talk and judge like they have beaucoup accuracy and precision, when maybe they don't.  

 

Well, I think in this case, the unit is demonstrating good precision, and the accuracy is irrelevant. I mean, it may well be doing a great job of accurately measuring the bottom of my pan, but until I can figure out how to cook under the pan, the number doesn't matter much. But the fact that the steam output stayed super consistent after the pan temperature stabilized does demonstrate that it's holding the arbitrary temperature pretty well.

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On 1/17/2018 at 9:02 PM, dtremit said:

 

But the fact that the steam output stayed super consistent after the pan temperature stabilized does demonstrate that it's holding the arbitrary temperature pretty well.

 

This is a very crude measurement.  The water and PC will moderate the swings.

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18 minutes ago, boilsover said:

 

This is a very crude measurement.  The water and PC will moderate the swings.

 

 

My experience with my pressure cooker has been that it's *extremely* sensitive to changes in burner output.

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OK.  But the coil is going to cycle on and off, and as long as the PC is venting, it's a crude gauge of temperature.  To understand this, it helps to visualize a very large pot.with a large thermal mass.  The PIC software extrapolates what it thinks is the inside temp from the exterior reading.  It takes awhile to reach a steady state, and when it does, the coil cycles off waiting for the signal to switch on again.  There are overshoots and swings.

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52 minutes ago, boilsover said:

OK.  But the coil is going to cycle on and off, and as long as the PC is venting, it's a crude gauge of temperature.  To understand this, it helps to visualize a very large pot.with a large thermal mass.  The PIC software extrapolates what it thinks is the inside temp from the exterior reading.  It takes awhile to reach a steady state, and when it does, the coil cycles off waiting for the signal to switch on again.  There are overshoots and swings.

 

I don't know why you think there's any extrapolation going on. The surface temperature setting on the TOT is just that -- the temperature of the bottom surface of the pan. It's not trying to guess what the internal temperature is at all, just control the output based on the temperature sensed by the center button.

 

Does it cycle? Of course it does. But so does my radiant electric stove, at any setting except "high." And when my radiant stove cycles, the steam output on my PC cycles with it. The PC's steam output is much more consistent on the TOT than I have ever been able to achieve on my stove, suggesting the overshoots and swings are being maintained in a fairly small window.


Edited by dtremit (log)

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Well I think that because I was told that this morning in meetings with Zwilling's head of cookware innovation.  He came from Solingen to discuss, among other things, how to put semiconductor chips into pans designed to work with these PICs. Software based extrapolation is the way induction hobs work.

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Just got mine last week as well. Missed the part before I ordered that it only works with iphones (not ipads). I had assumed any iOS device would work. Hopefully the android port will be done soon.

 

It's probably mentioned in here somewhere but I also didn't realized it had a loud cooling fan that runs whenever it is on.

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1 hour ago, rob1234 said:

Just got mine last week as well. Missed the part before I ordered that it only works with iphones (not ipads). I had assumed any iOS device would work. Hopefully the android port will be done soon.

 

It's probably mentioned in here somewhere but I also didn't realized it had a loud cooling fan that runs whenever it is on.

 

Why would it not work with an iPad?

 

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No idea. You can install the tasty app on the ipad but it is missing the one top menu item. I was about to email them to ask where the missing menu was when I saw on the faq page that ipads are not supported.

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1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Why would it not work with an iPad?

 

 

Because they rushed it to market.  The better question is why doesn't it have a suite of manual controls?

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44 minutes ago, boilsover said:

 

 

Because they rushed it to market.  The better question is why doesn't it have a suite of manual controls?

 

What is the technical reason it does not work with an iPad?

 

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Manual controls add quite a bit of extra cost to a product.  And, while having all controls go through an outside source, not only does it save cost (increasing margin), but you can bill it as a "feature" that you can control it with your phone... because, you know, Millenials love to do everything with their phone.... Grandma and Mom used to control their old fashioned stove using a knob on the side...  this is the future!

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26 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

What is the technical reason it does not work with an iPad?

 

 

I am speculating, but I think it's because they already had separate versions of the Tasty app for iPhone and iPad, and didn't add the feature to the iPad version. 

They added the One Top as a new feature to an existing app, rather than releasing a new app.

 

There is no technical reason the iPad couldn't control it.


Edited by dtremit (log)

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22 minutes ago, dtremit said:

 

I am speculating, but I think it's because they already had separate versions of the Tasty app for iPhone and iPad, and didn't add the feature to the iPad version. 

They added the One Top as a new feature to an existing app, rather than releasing a new app.

 

There is no technical reason the iPad couldn't control it.

 

 

It was the phone version of the app that I installed (which is horrible and ugly to use on an ipad). I couldn't find an ipad version. Hopefully because they took it down while they add one top support.

 

One top support said they are working on the android and ipad versions but would not give an eta.


Edited by rob1234 (log)

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1 hour ago, dtremit said:

 

I am speculating, but I think it's because they already had separate versions of the Tasty app for iPhone and iPad, and didn't add the feature to the iPad version. 

They added the One Top as a new feature to an existing app, rather than releasing a new app.

 

There is no technical reason the iPad couldn't control it.

 

 

The iPad should be able to install and run the iPhone app.

 

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