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benjamin163

Help with ice cream

11 posts in this topic

Hello,

I'm really struggling with a couple of issues with my ice cream.

First thing is the mixture that makes a custard.

I can't vacuum seal it without making a hell of a mess.

Milk, sugar, egg yolk, cream, vanilla pod, all blended up. But when I vacuum seal, it gets to 50% and then starts frothing and by 60% it's frothing out of the bag which is less than a third full. So that's my first question. How do I vacuum seal this mixture without making a mess.

Second question is around the usage of trimolene. 

I bought a job lot but can't find recipes which use it. So I have no idea how much to use. Do I simply substitute the sugar for trimolene? Do I use the normal amount of sugar then add a small amount of trimolene? Do I add the trimolene when I blend up the mixture.

Any help on these issues gratefully received. 

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3 hours ago, benjamin163 said:

Hello,

I'm really struggling with a couple of issues with my ice cream.

First thing is the mixture that makes a custard.

I can't vacuum seal it without making a hell of a mess.

Milk, sugar, egg yolk, cream, vanilla pod, all blended up. But when I vacuum seal, it gets to 50% and then starts frothing and by 60% it's frothing out of the bag which is less than a third full. So that's my first question. How do I vacuum seal this mixture without making a mess.

Second question is around the usage of trimolene. 

I bought a job lot but can't find recipes which use it. So I have no idea how much to use. Do I simply substitute the sugar for trimolene? Do I use the normal amount of sugar then add a small amount of trimolene? Do I add the trimolene when I blend up the mixture.

Any help on these issues gratefully received. 

 

I've tried vacuum sealing my mix and found it rather a mess.  I gave up on that approach.  There is discussion in the ice cream topic:

 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/152508-home-made-ice-cream-2015–/

 

 

I've never used invert sugar for ice cream, can't help you with that.

 

 

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thanks for this Jo, I'll take a good look.

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I just vacuum until it gets to the point where it's almost to the seal area.  Since this is a liquid, getting all the air out isn't such a big deal. As long as you have a way to keep the bag from floating you'll get good enough heat transfer to the mix.

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On June 10, 2017 at 3:51 AM, benjamin163 said:

Hello,

I'm really struggling with a couple of issues with my ice cream.

First thing is the mixture that makes a custard.

I can't vacuum seal it without making a hell of a mess.

Milk, sugar, egg yolk, cream, vanilla pod, all blended up. But when I vacuum seal, it gets to 50% and then starts frothing and by 60% it's frothing out of the bag which is less than a third full. So that's my first question. How do I vacuum seal this mixture without making a mess.

Second question is around the usage of trimolene. 

I bought a job lot but can't find recipes which use it. So I have no idea how much to use. Do I simply substitute the sugar for trimolene? Do I use the normal amount of sugar then add a small amount of trimolene? Do I add the trimolene when I blend up the mixture.

Any help on these issues gratefully received. 

 

Ok so question one

if you can control your vacuum packing then stop it when you see the liquid rise to close to the edge. If you can you need to fill much less 50% about of the bag. You can add stuff in your vacuum machine to diminish the air content.

 

secondly two sugar factors to take in consideration - sweetness and freezing point -100+higher freezing point

 

sugar | 100% | 100

dextrose | 60% | 160 

invert sugar | 130% | 160

glucose | 60% | 70% (if I recall correctly)

 

so globally you need to take in consideration what scoopability and sweetness you want in your ice cream and it will define the amount of sugars you can add. At the same time you need to balance as well the solids vs the liquids (trimoline is 70% to 80 solids for 20 to 30% liquids) (glucose about 80 to 20). So invert sugar is key on recipes like chocolate, or nuts that have high fats and lesser sugar for example. You should add a bit of stabilizers as well to have a longer shelf life as the yolks are mainly the binders of the fat and water.

 

for your ice cream, you need to churn it at 50% give or take which is a high volume spinning. Gelato is more in the 30%

 

hope this helps a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

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thanks Mgaretz,

I've started vacuuming to 80% instead of 95% and filling the bags up less. Seems to do the trick.

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No need to vacuum seal at all; just pour into a ziploc bag and evacuate the air by immersing into a container of water. I keep the water in the container so I can add ice to it and use it to rapidly chill the bag before aging the mix. 

 

On sugar, Alleguede's information is mostly right, although invert syrup doesn't have quite that much freezing point depression.

 

Here's a chart I put together:

sugars2.png

You don't absolutely need to use trimoline; it's just a helpful option for tweaking the texture and sweetness.

I like my ice creams to be on the low end of sweetness, but without sacrificing scoopability. So I use around 12–14% sugar by weight of the mix, in a ratio that's usually around 60% sucrose, 26% dextrose, 13% invert syrup.

 

Increasing the ratio of sucrose to the other sugars will make the ice cream harder. Increasing the ratio of dextrose to trimoline will make it less sweet. Increase the ration of trimoline to dextrose will make it sweeter.

 

I wrote a pretty detailed post on sugars in ice cream here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This is amazing and really appreciated.

Why are my ice creams still a little grainy and textured? A little rough and 'frozen'?

I'm following instructions.

Is it possible to churn too much?

Also, I tend to get varying thicknesses of custard from my water bath. The other day the custard was very thin, whereas the time before it was a little coagulated and I had to blend out the eggyness.

Is that simply a weights and measures thing? Size of yolks etc?

Can you make a successful ice cream from a thin custard?

What will the difference be with a thicker custard?

All these questions. I bet you wish you hadn't been so insightful.

But any help gratefully received.

 

 

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Ice cream is just about the most complex creation in the food universe. There are dozens of variables, and they're all interactive. It's difficult to answer your questions without knowing all the details of what you're doing. Many things can lead to graininess, many different things can lead to iciness. If you're cooking the mix sous-vide and getting scrambled eggs, that sounds like the temperature is too high. Many different time/temperature combinations work. I'd suggest 75°C for 30 minutes as a starting point. The blog I linked above will answer all these questions, but it won't be a quick read!

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7 hours ago, benjamin163 said:

Why are my ice creams still a little grainy and textured? A little rough and 'frozen'?

 

Possibly too much fat, or too little sugar, or over-churning.  Is it more icy or more buttery?

 

7 hours ago, benjamin163 said:

Is it possible to churn too much?

 

Yes, definitely.  Over-churned ice cream turns to sweet, egg-y butter.

 

7 hours ago, benjamin163 said:

Can you make a successful ice cream from a thin custard?

 

Yes.  I think more depends on the machine and the recipe than on how thick the custard is.  Thin sorbet bases can spin into smooth frozen delights.

 

@paulraphael is right, ice cream is a complex mystery that isn't fully understood.  I've never cooked custard sous vide so can't speak to that.  What kind of machine do you have for churning?

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I find these answers very helpful and I'm most grateful, thank you.

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