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weinoo

2017 Kitchen Appliances

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After living in our apartment for what is now close to 14 years, Significant Eater and I have decided to take the plunge and renovate our kitchen and bath. There will be challenges, not the least of which is that our's is a cooperative apartment building; everything (design mostly) has to be approved by management and board of directors.

 

We bought new appliances when I and a friend did a make-believe renovation in 2005...pix of my kitchen appear way back in the blog we did in 2011.

IMG_0791_1.JPG

 

The amazing thing about the appliances we bought in '05 is that the dishwasher (Miele), range (Bosch) and fridge (Amana/Maytag) have never needed a single service call. So they've done their jobs well. Actually, I wouldn't mind keeping the Miele, but I realize that keeping a 12 year old dishwasher in a brand new reno is probably not the greatest idea.

 

Now here are the questions. I plan on going fairly high-end for appliances - like I want a pro range and believe I will be able to vent it legally to the outside via my bathroom window (at least that is what both our architect and the president of the coop told me).

 

What appliances are people liking these days, in terms of performance and reliability? I don't want to say price is no object, because it is. But I'd like to hear everything.

 

 

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

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I don't know how you feel about Consumer Reports, but at the moment their top pick among the "pro-style" ranges is the KitchenAid KDRU763VSS Dual-fuel model. As a general rule they like the KitchenAids and GE Monogram series, and gave very low ratings to Jenn-Aire and BlueStar (among others). They are all out of my price range, but I'm looking forward to seeing what you decide to go with.


Chris Hennes
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I tagged along with my best friend and her husband earlier this year while they shopped for a new oven and range.  This Samsung Flex Duo Oven gave me a serious case case of oven envy. I bought the electric version of this 6 years ago when we remodeled our kitchen.  I have liked the double oven arrangement, because within limits you can run the two compartments at different temperatures; on the other hand, you can remove the divider and operate the oven as a single standard-sized oven. This new iteration is a significant improvement over mine in two ways: first, the obvious advantage is that it's gas; second; the door now is articulated so that you can just open the top half if you wish.  (The middle hinge is operated by a special latch built into the door handle; it's easy to operate but doesn't seem likely to be operated by accident.)  Mine has a single door, so you lose heat to both compartments when you just want to check the upper compartment. The range looks like it would be easy to clean and control; it includes a good low-heat simmering burner and a high-heat burner of impressive BTU's.  The grate includes a removable wok cradle to hold a round-bottomed wok over the burner.

 

My friends couldn't see themselves using the double oven option, so saved around $1000 by buying the single-chamber version of this unit. They've had their new kitchen for less than a month, but so far they are delighted with their purchase.

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Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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We've had a Miele oven and dishwasher (clothes washer too) for the past 12 years.  The oven, although small, is fantastic.  I'd get the double oven.  Or even look at the new models they have....?steam.  Miele is really a top notch appliance, even if the light bulbs cost $50!  The dish washer is amazing.  So quiet and I don't think we've had to wash anything that comes out of the finished cycle.  Such a good job.  So, if you are worried about your current Miele, I would put it back but check out the hole size required for any Miele replacement.

 

I have a Wolf stove, six burner and it is a workhorse and so easy to clean.  Besides, love the RED knobs.

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So, a couple more limitations (as I said above, coop apartment living)...

 

Range and no other appliances which need more than 120v electrical. I'm pretty sure dual-fuel ranges are out.

 

I also want to have an  under-counter wine fridge. 

 

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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The range looks 30" wide. Are you looking for that width again or can/will you remodel to accommodate a 36" range? Do you have, or could you have installed, a 220 line so you could have a dual-fuel range? What dimensions will be available for the fridge?

 

Friends of ours have this GE Café fridge (the non-Keurig version). It's absurd what it'll do. If you pair it with a Café-series range and this 40 dB Café-series dishwasher, you may well be able to negotiate a good deal with the retailer. And if you buy another qualifying GE appliance -- say, this convection microwave -- you get a $1000 rebate from GE.


Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

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Cross-posting re dual-fuel.

 

What size wine fridge are you looking for? GE also makes a nice one, which we have, as do friends of ours -- this one. A spiffier, and more expensive, one is available. Marvel wine coolers also are very good. We have one of those, too. (There's an auction house here in the GR area that's AGA Marvel's floor model/store return/scratch and dent outlet. For example, Here's a May 22 auction.)


Edited by Alex add info (log)

Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

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36 minutes ago, Alex said:

The range looks 30" wide. Are you looking for that width again or can/will you remodel to accommodate a 36" range? Do you have, or could you have installed, a 220 line so you could have a dual-fuel range? What dimensions will be available for the fridge?

 

Friends of ours have this GE Café fridge (the non-Keurig version). It's absurd what it'll do. If you pair it with a Café-series range and this 40 dB Café-series dishwasher, you may well be able to negotiate a good deal with the retailer. And if you buy another qualifying GE appliance -- say, this convection microwave -- you get a $1000 rebate from GE.

 

Just out of curiosity, I priced out those four items at Goedekers.com. It's $6864, no tax, including delivery allowing for one flight of stairs. (I assume an elevator doesn't count as stairs.) The wine chiller would add $503. Less the $1000 rebate, your net cost for the five items would be $6367. A Miele or Wolf range by itself would cost $5K. I guess it depends on where and how you want to put your money.

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Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

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On 5/7/2017 at 4:53 PM, Alex said:

 I guess it depends on where and how you want to put your money.

 

Doesn't it always ;) ?

 

Running a 220v line would cost over $1,000 a floor - and we're on the 15th floor!

 

Refrigerator size is still to be determined; I don't need anything quite as monstrous as that GE. The wine fridge will most likely have to fit a 24" opening.


Edited by weinoo (log)
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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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2 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

Doesn't it always ;) ?

 

Running a 22v line would cost over $1,000 a floor - and we're on the 15th floor!

 

Refrigerator size is still to be determined; I don't need anything quite as monstrous as that GE. The wine fridge will most likely have to fit a 24" opening.

 

There's a counter-depth version of that fridge. The GE wine fridge I linked to is about 19" wide. The auction I linked to has a few nice 24" units.


Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

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I think your discussion about dual fuel is directed to Alex, but I'll clarify in case I'm mistaken: the Samsung dual oven I discussed above is dual only in the sense of becoming one or two oven chambers. It is strictly a gas oven and range.

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Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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We renovated our kitchen and changed all appliances in 2010.  After many hours research we went for a Neff electric fan oven with which we have been and continue to be delighted.  This is not a professional appliance but it is the best oven I have ever used including a small number of professional models.  We don't have mains gas in our village and our hob will be of no interest to you.

 

We went for Miele for dishwasher, washing machine and dryer.  We have a very small house and laundry is done in the kitchen, in France it was done in the bathroom, elsewhere I have no idea.  Seven years on we are still happy with the Miele products but there is a logic fault with the dishwasher control panel and one day when I have time I will get that replaced under guarantee.  All of these products came with 10 year guarantees but I'm not sure that is replicated everywhere.

 

We wanted copious fridge and freezer space but our choices were limited by difficulties in getting the devices into the kitchen.  Walls are best part of a metre thick and doorways are small.  After creating models out of cardboard boxes to make sure we would get them in we went for Liebherr separate fridge and freezer.  Again no problems in the seven years these items have been with us.

 

We are fortunate in being able to afford 'good' makes of appliance at our advanced ages but this hasn't always been the case.  Newly married our first dishwasher was a bottom of the range Phillips.  We had been told that the same model could be purchased for more money with a Bosch label.  We would have bought that machine in or around 1988 when I had my first 'proper' job; it was still working when we pulled the kitchen here apart in 2010.  We might have changed the odd component but I don't remember working on that device.  Our first tumble dryer was a Hotpoint.  The white plastic had changed to various creams due to light exposure over the years, the door was held on with a twist of wire but that machine was also still working more than 20 years after purchase when we disposed of it.  Washing machines we were less lucky with.  A first bought second hand but on the recommendation of an 'expert' committed suicide a few weeks after we installed it covering the load that it was supposed to be washing with the grease that I understand was supposed to be in its gear box.  That was an Electrolux but we can hardly blame the manufacturer as it was far from new.  Next we had a Phillips from new which was OK but it only lasted a short while.  After that I can't remember makes, I think the last machine pre-2010 was a Zanussi that came from my mother in law's house after her death.  She had only bought it a few weeks earlier so it was as new when we got it and still working in 2010 when we donated it to a charity that provides household electrical to families in financial difficulties.  They also took our previous fridge-freezer that had been bought out of necessity as the only model that would fit the available space before the kitchen remake.  

 

All that to demonstrate that one doesn't always need to go to expensive makes to get a good machine.

 

The best part of our kitchen remake was a decision to refit a wardrobe as a larder cupboard.  We don't have the height for wall cabinets, two walls had been fitted with the usual type kitchen cupboard and originally we planned to install a professional pizza oven that would take up much of the remaining space.  The pizza oven was much researched but not bought.  In the end we got the far from professional G3 Ferrari pizza oven with which we have been absolutely delighted.  Pizzas are cooked in less than 5 minutes, the disadvantage being that we can only cook one at a time.  We both like our pizza to stand a little after cooking so for us this works fine and it left us with unexpected space.  We saw a really beautiful larder cupboard on sale locally but having done the usual measuring we had to admit that there was no way it could be got into our kitchen.  Many friends in other parts of Europe use wardrobes, usually antique, to store kitchen items in so we decided to go that route and for very little money acquired a not antique wardrobe that is now fitted with shelves etc and holding an amazing amount of stuff. 

 

I see that I joined eGullet in early 2011 so I might already have shared photographs of the kitchen refit.  I attach one from the early days of the project and another of the same wall what seemed an age later when we were able to begin using at least parts of the new creation.  Cupboards are basic Ikea as is the worktop and as is the bottle gas fed hob.  The microwave is probably nearing 20 years old but it works fine, we've changed bulbs from time to time and I think the motor that drives the rotating plate at the bottom but we have yet to find something that makes us want to replace it.  The Dualit toaster was picked up for next to nothing at a local auction and it works superbly.

IMG_0079.jpg.cd22831f86425c7a53786d359b2cea10.jpg

 

IMG_0272.jpg.892837ee1fa83bdbb3b551b74d3eaffa.jpg

 

 @weinoo's accommodation is obviously very different to ours but if I can help in any way by sharing experiences I will be happy to do that either via the forum or PM as appropriate.

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I couldn't be happier with our Blue Star gas range. I can't imagine what CR didn't like about it, but they are often weird. We have the low end 6 burner model with open burners that just about clean themselves.

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I haven't heard anything bad about Bluestar, besides the price tag. They'd probably be my 1st choice all else being equal. Definitely the open burners.

The biggest concern with any high end brand is if you get service for it locally. But I'm sure there's service for everything in NYC where Mitch lives.

 

Strange about the cost of running 220V. I'd think you could have have it rigged straight from the breaker box. They just take two 110V circuits that are out of phase and combine them. But don't hire me as your electrician.


Notes from the underbelly

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I thought of this thread when an ad for JennAir showed up in a feed elsewhere. The caption read, "Create the kitchen of your dreams." The kitchen of my dreams includes a Bluestar stove. Not working on that dream at present, but that is part of my dream.

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Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

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On 5/24/2017 at 5:33 PM, paulraphael said:

I haven't heard anything bad about Bluestar, besides the price tag. They'd probably be my 1st choice all else being equal. Definitely the open burners.

The biggest concern with any high end brand is if you get service for it locally. But I'm sure there's service for everything in NYC where Mitch lives.

 

Strange about the cost of running 220V. I'd think you could have have it rigged straight from the breaker box. They just take two 110V circuits that are out of phase and combine them. But don't hire me as your electrician.

I think the real problem, Paul (and don't hire me as your electrician), is that every apartment in our complex (1,724 apartments!) got a certain amount of juice when the complex was built. Of course, when the complex was built, people weren't running things like dishwashers, multiple air conditioners, hair dryers, washer/dryers, all sorts of electronics, espresso machines (when my Silvia is running, the light in the bathroom flickers) Cuisinart combo ovens...well, you get the picture.

 

 

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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(Pre) Yahrtzeit. 

 

36685893300_f34ae053a9.jpg

 

36247117224_7b403692c8.jpg

 

36940701541_e261f9b9df.jpg

 

Someone actually bought those old IKEA cabinets, as well as the range and dishwasher...felt good not having them become landfill.

 

I think Cossacks bathed in that sink.

 

It's starting.

 

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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I'm eager to see your new sink since we had discussed that previously here.

And I can only hope you don't experience any of the remodel horrors that some of us have endured.


Edited by lindag (log)
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If you have a low tolerance for nauseating stories read no further...

 

Dh and scheduled a kitchen remodel and then went on vacation.  Said remodel was supposed to be done by the time we got back.

We arrived home the evening as scheduled to find the water shut off (because there was a plumbing problem not yet fixed)  and to find the downstairs toilet completely filled up!!!  I'm sure the guys got a really big hoot out of outdoing each other.

needless to say my DH ripped them a new one the next day.  They did finish after a couple weeks delay and the job was done well but the memory is seared into my brain.

 

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@lindag,

 

That's the worst contractor story I've heard, and the contractor took off with the money my Dad paid him to buy all the plumbing fixtures for the home we were building and skipped town. This was in rural Vermont, where everyone knows everyone else and is just unheard of behavior. This guy just disappeared, never to show his face around there again. It was a fairly large house for six with three bathrooms and on demand hot water from the oil furnace, but also used to heat the home, pumped around the house in baseboard copper pipes. It also had a central vacuum system, but I think that was probably plastic pipe. Still a lot of money though. Too much temptation, I guess. Police couldn't find him either. The guy had lived in the area for years, and supposedly did good work. Guess he got a wild hair at an unlucky time for us. He left his wife and kids behind too. :( O.o The house eventually got built, though, and I did a lot or work on it myself, as the oldest child.

 

Good luck with your kitchen remodel @weinoo! Yours can't possibly be as bad as these two stories from me and lindag. Please remember that when you're fixin' to go postal on your contractor. :)

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> ^ . . ^ <

 

 

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On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 1:25 PM, Okanagancook said:

 

 

I have a Wolf stove, six burner and it is a workhorse and so easy to clean.  Besides, love the RED knobs.

 

Yep.  My dream kitchen would have that same stove!  

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17 hours ago, lindag said:

If you have a low tolerance for nauseating stories read no further...

 

Dh and scheduled a kitchen remodel and then went on vacation.  Said remodel was supposed to be done by the time we got back.

We arrived home the evening as scheduled to find the water shut off (because there was a plumbing problem not yet fixed)  and to find the downstairs toilet completely filled up!!!  I'm sure the guys got a really big hoot out of outdoing each other.

needless to say my DH ripped them a new one the next day.  They did finish after a couple weeks delay and the job was done well but the memory is seared into my brain.

 

 

Lenny Dykstra was your contractor?

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2 hours ago, gfweb said:

 

Lenny Dykstra was your contractor?

 

xDxDxD

 

I remember that. I wonder how many of us got the reference.

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Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

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