Rose Jelly

[ChristysConfections]

Hey there wise E-gullet-ers!

 

I have another question to put out there. I am interested in making a rose jelly - one that I can layer with a chocolate ganache similar to a pâte de fruit. I don't really know how to go about this. Do you infuse water with dried rose petals and make a syrup? What's the best way to gellify it? I'm very curious. Has anyone made jellies with any other botanicals? Is anyone willing to share their recipe as a guideline?

 

Many thanks!

Christy

[teonzo]

For rose, best thing is using the essential oil instead of infusing dried rose buds. Essential oils are cold distilled from the flowers, you can't geta better aromatic extraction than that. Uusually all suppliers of confectionery ingredients have essential oils in their catalogue, if you have troubles finding them then try a health store. Beware that some like violet and chamomile can be pretty expensive, even some kind of rose (there are various rose varieties, usually Damascus rose is the cheaper one).

Pâte de fruit is the best choice for shelf life reasons. Don't have any recipe here at hand, but it's pretty simple to create one. Pick a recipe for a pâte de fruit made with a "liquid" fruit (like orange, don't start from a recipe that calls for a thick puree), substitute water for the fruit juice, adjust the quantity of citric acid (you need to raise it to compensate for the lack of fruit acids) and pectin (if you have the Boiron table with all the fruit recipes, then pick the higher measure of citric acid and pectin). Proceed as usual with the recipe. When you reached the final temperature add the essential oil drops and food colorings (same step as the citric acid). You need to adjust neforehand for the number of oil drops, just make a 1:1 syrup (100 g water 100 g sugar) then add a drop at a time and taste. Each essential oil has a different flavor intensity: ylang ylang is STRONG (a couple drops is enough for 1 kg); lavender is medium; Damascus rose is lower. You may need to add food colorings if you want to recall the original ingredient (lavender oil is transparent like water, Damascus rose oil is yellow).

You can make infusions with spices, herbs and so on, then prepare the pâte de fruit. In that case you have better to start with a syrup, aromatics diffuse way better in a syrup than in plain water. Just use a part of sugar called in the pâte de fruit recipe to make a syrup. Essential oils are better added at the end, otherwise you loose volatile aromatics during boiling.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[ChristysConfections]

Hi Teo,

 

Thanks for having patience with my questions and taking the time to lay it all out for me! This is something completely new for me. I'm very intrigued by the idea of making a jelly that isn't fruit based.

 

Can you clarify something for me? The 100g water with 100g sugar that I should be adding my essential oil drops to, that is for me to determine how many drops per 200g of jelly I need to get the desired flavor? Or is this something that is being added to the pâté de fruit at the end?

 

Also, to determine the correct amount of citric acid, I guess I need be be looking up how many grams of citric acid would be in x number of grams of my chosen fruit that I am replacing with water?

 

I find it incredibly interesting that confectionary suppliers carry essential oils to use as food flavoring. I am actually completing my studies as a certified aromatherapist and I work for a professional aromatherapist as well. I definitely know all about essential oils! However, all the governing bodies that regulate our profession have guidelines we must adhere to regarding safe practices - one of those guidelines is that we cannot recommend the ingestion of essential oils! Because they are so potent they can cause serious harm when ingested. I imagine as confectioners we would only use a small number of drops in a recipe, so it would be extrememly diluted. Interesting indeed.

 

ETA: I just want to clarify that I am not intending to be negative or critical about the use of essential oils in food. I think this is a good idea and must be much different than recommending the ingestion of oils for pharmacological purposes.

 

Many thanks!

Christy

Edited February 11, 2017 by ChristysConfections (log)

[GlorifiedRice]

Ill just add one thing...

 

Google GULKAND its Indian rose petal jam and it smells divine.

[teonzo]

5 hours ago, ChristysConfections said:

Can you clarify something for me? The 100g water with 100g sugar that I should be adding my essential oil drops to, that is for me to determine how many drops per 200g of jelly I need to get the desired flavor? Or is this something that is being added to the pâté de fruit at the end?

 

The first you said.

You could add the essential oil at the beginning or in the middle of the recipe. In this way you could have the chance to taste it and correct the amount of the essential oil, but after that you should have to boil it to reach the desired temperature. Boiling causes flavor loss.

If you add the essential oil at the end, then you limit the flavor loss. But you don't have time to add essential oil, taste (your tongue is not happy to taste something at 105-107°C), adjust and so on. You have just time to add it and pour the pâte de fruit. So you need to know beforehand how much essential oil you need to add.

There are various ways to know this. One could be making various tries until you get what you are looking for, expensive and time consuming. Preparing a syrup like I suggested is another way, much quicker and cheaper. This way you know how much drops you need for 200 g, so calculating how many you need for your final product is an easy calculation. I wrote 100+100 g just for easiness: with less amount you have difficulties balancing the drops (1 drop can be enough for 200 g, if it's ylang ylang it's even too much, dividing 1 drop is pretty difficult), with more amount you waste money. I suggested a 1:1 syrup because usually it's already made in most kitchens, plus it has a similar concentration as the final pâte de fruit.

 

This way you get an estimate on how many drops you need, but for sure you will need some fine tuning. Mostly because the pâte de fruit will not be alone, it will be part of a praline with 2 layers. There will be water migration between the 2 layers, this will cause a change in the flavor balance during the first few days (if you taste the same batch afer 1 day, after 3 days and after 5 days, then it will be different each time).

 

Remember to use always a similar drop dispenser (same size same producer), because "drop" is a vague measure, the size of a drop just depends on the tool you are using.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, ChristysConfections said:

Also, to determine the correct amount of citric acid, I guess I need be be looking up how many grams of citric acid would be in x number of grams of my chosen fruit that I am replacing with water?

 

Citric acid is needed to shift the final pH in the window where pectin makes a gel. If the final pH will be lower then pectin won't gel, same as if the pH will be higher.

Recipes involving fruit purees are calculated on average (considering the average pH of that fruit puree), so the required amount of citric acid will shift the pH measure towards the middle of the gelling window.

If you make a water based pâte de fruit then you are always starting at pH7, so there won't be variations as when you use the fruit puree. This means that aiming at the middle of the window is overkill, you just need to fall inbetween. If you pick the higher number called for citric acid for the various fruits (aka the less acidic fruit) then you are fine.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, ChristysConfections said:

I find it incredibly interesting that confectionary suppliers carry essential oils to use as food flavoring. I am actually completing my studies as a certified aromatherapist and I work for a professional aromatherapist as well. I definitely know all about essential oils! However, all the governing bodies that regulate our profession have guidelines we must adhere to regarding safe practices - one of those guidelines is that we cannot recommend the ingestion of essential oils! Because they are so potent they can cause serious harm when ingested. I imagine as confectioners we would only use a small number of drops in a recipe, so it would be extrememly diluted. Interesting indeed.

 

As you already know, if you ingest essential oils without dilution then the risks are huge, you can even die. So you need to use them with precaution. Those things are already written on each bottle, so I tend to give them for granted, my apologies.

Essential oils are harmful when ingested pure, due to their concentration. I can't speak for experience (don't have any intention to try), but I'm pretty sure they are harmful even if not ingested, for example ylang ylang oil is so powerful that I think if you pour a single drop on your tongue then you risk serious damage to your ability to taste things.

But if you use natural essential oils (distilled from the real organic stuff) and dilute them then there is no risk. If you make an infusion from dried rose buds, then you are getting the same molecules there are in the essential oil. If the molecules in the essential oil were always harmful, then it would be so for the infusion too. The risks in ingesting essential oils are due to their concentrations, not their composition.

Essential oils are a better choice for flavor since cold distillation is the best way to get the pure flavor. But after that you need to dilute it before consumption.

I'm pretty sure you already know there are reconstituted oils (like wisteria), oils from non organic stuff (risks of pesticides) and so on, so stay away from them.

 

If you know of a cheap source for violet essential oil then please share, thanks!

And tell us which flavor combinations you intend to try!

 

 

Teo

 

[Kerry Beal]

I have a 10 ml bottle of Rose Otto that I bought probably 15 years ago -  think it may have cost me ∼$200 - hesitate to think how much it would cost these days (actually just looked it up $268 so not so bad). I make up a 10% solution in jojoba oil and use that to flavour Turkish Delight. When they distill rose otto - the water portion of the distillate when it is done is rose water. 

 

I'm thinking that when I finish boiling pate de fruit using the Boiron recipes - I add the tartaric acid solution and about 15 ml of alcohol. Perhaps you could use good quality rose water as part of the alcohol component - would be a whole lot less expensive than the rose oil.

 

I know that a few years back I found food grade violet essential oil from somewhere in the south of France - but not able to find it now. Course you could make your own by distilling it from the dried flowers.

[pastryani]

7 hours ago, GlorifiedRice said:

Ill just add one thing...

 

Google GULKAND its Indian rose petal jam and it smells divine.

 

Gulkand does smell delicious and it tastes even better.   The only thing is that it's brown in color (at least the ones I've seen).  I like to add some pre-made rose jam to my rose bonbons.  If you're okay with purchasing some instead of making it, I'd recommend a Greek or Turkish brand.  They're closer to rose color, though I suspect food coloring is a likely addition.

[teonzo]

10 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

I have a 10 ml bottle of Rose Otto that I bought probably 15 years ago -  think it may have cost me ∼$200

 

Ouch! I paid 8 euro for a 7 ml bottle, pretty big difference.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

I know that a few years back I found food grade violet essential oil from somewhere in the south of France - but not able to find it now. Course you could make your own by distilling it from the dried flowers.

 

Sosa sells it for example, along with candied violets and dried violets. But each way you go they are really expensive. They sell a "violet flavor", but it does not seem to come from real violets.

Same for all the other suppliers I tried here, lower price I found is 90 euro for a 5 ml bottle of violet essential oil. Sooner or later I'll give up and buy one, if it's as powerful as ylang ylang it could be cost effective even at that price.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[Jim D.]

11 hours ago, teonzo said:

But you don't have time to add essential oil, taste (your tongue is not happy to taste something at 105-107°C), adjust and so on. You have just time to add it and pour the pâte de fruit. So you need to know beforehand how much essential oil you need to add.

 

@ChristysConfections, if you want to give yourself a little more time to taste the pâte de fruit (before it starts to jell), you could look into using a low-ester pectin (Pomona's is an easily found brand in the U.S.) rather than the pectin employed in the usual pâte de fruit. With a pectin like Pomona's you have more "wiggle room" at the end of the process: you stop when the mixture has returned to a boil after adding the pectin and some sugar, and at that point you can remove the mixture from the heat, cool a spoonful, taste it, add more flavoring, heat it again if you need to. The downside is that it is more difficult to judge just how firm the pâte de fruit is going to be, but you can test it by putting a dab on a plate and refrigerating it for a while. There was a discussion of using Pomona's for pâte de fruit in molded chocolates on eGullet. With Pomona's one does not use quite as much sugar, so water activity (and resulting shelf life) can be a concern, but in that other thread I dealt with that issue and have continued working on it since then. If you were to make a rose pâte using Pomona's, you would need to add more pectin than in the recipe I gave in the earlier thread.