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rotuts

St.Patrick and his Corned Beef

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St.P's day is coming up.

 

what are your plans for Corned Beef ?

 

in the past , being a student of CB and massive sales and SV  I used to make a lot of it

 

SV it , and then put a fair amount of the hunks on the Weber @ 130 w smoke  from wood chips and then re-bag and have the

 

tastiest sandwiches when Heat and Humidity and Mosquitos  showed up over the summer.

 

now  it didn't even closely approach Montreal Smoked Meat  from Schwartz's,

 

and I have not been there is a long while.  [ im guessing its changed hands , but still making fine stuff ]

 

but that smoked CB was stunning.

 

Ive been tossing and turning for some time , and Ive come up w a plan to study the Added Papain :

 

early on during Sale Days  Ill buy a single large Hunk.  Ill so my usual trim, and make say 6 SV bags

 

Ill look up my preferred temp   ( in the Sv Rsd Book )  but start to pull out the bags , say at 4 hours and every 2 hours to

 

get tenderness W/O mushiness from the enzymes.  early bags will be rebated and returned to the Experiment

 

so that when i hit a time that works , all the bags will be in there then they get to visit the weber for some smoke.

 

of course i could by CB at 4 times the price W/O the papain , but that's no fun at all !

 

BTW :  a four leaf green clover for @Anna N  which allowed me to have plenty of freezer space for this project.

 

the FCO expires in March , eh ?

 

and its a new meat so its going to be allowed in no matter what.

 

so : how do you do your CB ?   have you come over to SV ?

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Well, since you have asked, bottom round roasts were on sale for $1.99 pp recently at Shoprite near here. So I decided to try my hand at corned beef. I picked a few of them with decent marble and froze all but 1, which is brining as I type. As with the beef tongue I do, when I find it on sale, I mix up a batch of Morton Tender Quick ( 1 1/2 cups in 6 cups of water), inject it well into the beef, add spices (bay leaves, garlic, peppercorns and rosemary) and let it brine in the fridge for 2 weeks. It has been only one week so far. The first one I plan to do in the Instant Pot, but if that works out well, I will try the others in SV. I will report with results on the first one.

HC

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thanks

 

very interesting project.

 

Im interested in your results  iPot vs SV

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I have considered SV but haven't commited myself so far.

 

My CB is rather simple. The meat goes into some form of temperature-controlled slow cooker, I add Guinness stout and then cook for 8 hours at 235 F. The long, slow cook allows a good deal of fat to render off. After cooking I scrap the remaining fat cap of, slice and serve.  The ren faire variation is that the meat is cooked in advance, refrigeratred, then the fat cap is scraped off, it is cut into chunks, reheated in a sealed container, then served.

 

I have had numerous people over the years say that they don't like CB but they do like mine. I suspect that the much lower fat content has something to do with that. I don't know for sure. I do know that it works and I intend to continue forth.

 

My thoughts on SV are for ren faire only. I'm thinking bagged with some Guinness then 165 F for at least 12 hours. Have to figure out how long to render out enough fat.

 

 

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Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

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I'll do colcannon. Or bubble and squeak. Or bangers and mash. Or Guinness pie. Or anything really Irish. 

 

 

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@Porthos  

 

based on personal economics , time  etc etc

 

please consider looking over the CB on the SV threads.

 

conventional CB is a mighty fine dish.  I like the Guiness suggestion.

 

but based on understanding of toughness , meat fibers contracting  , and thus making soup 

 

which is fine for the carrots , cabbage , potatoes  ;

 

SV CB at the time and temp of your personal choice for the final result

 

is in a dimension that once tasted   Hot or for sandwiches later  will be the dimension of choice

 

for 130 lbs of CB , lets day trimmed down to 110 lbs is a different story.

 

 

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it is indeed (a fine dish).

especially on rye bread with mustard.

 

it's just not got any real connection to Ireland or St Patrick's Day (which is also an American invention and obsession, mostly ignored in Britain and Ireland)

 

 


Edited by weedy (log)

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I've posted my method on eGullet before...

Corned beef in a slow cooker. Could take 8 hours or a little less...

Remove the meat when it's done cooking and use the meat-flavored water to boil red-skinned potatoes and carrots (my mom would also boil some turnips and onions). I use the red-skinned potatoes because you don't have to peel them and I use baby carrots because you don't have to peel them.  Anyone sense a theme going on here?;)

Then in a separate pot I'll use some of the meat-flavored water to steam cabbage.

Eat it for days on end until it's gone and you're tired of looking at it. xD

 

7 minutes ago, weedy said:

it's just not got any real connection to Ireland or St Patrick's Day (which is also an American invention and obsession, mostly ignored in Britain and Ireland)

Yes, this has been discussed on eGullet before. It's unabashedly an American invention. Corned beef became the center of the meal because it was a cut of meat the poor Irish-Americans could afford and that no one else was buying at the time. How the times have changed...

 

edited to clarify


Edited by Toliver (log)
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“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'

Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”

– From Fox TV’s “Family Guy”

 

Tim Oliver

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@weedy  

 

""   an American invention and obsession ""

 

indeed.  the obsession  in areas that had or still have  a tradition of the immigrant Irish

 

is more or less to get drunk.  Big Time Drunk

 

this does not demean The Irish, after all most that get Big Time Drunk  do it with Green Beer 

 

not Irish Coffee 

 

so think of this as 

 

a corned beef thread

 

in my area  it a a big deal as its price drops  89 %

 

thats all

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For Monday night's dinner I am going to cook a 3.37 pound corned beef I just pulled from the freezer. As research for ren faire CB I will be doing it SV, 165 F for 18 hours.

 

Still have one left in the freezer.

 

No Guinness in the house. Oh shuckydarns! I will have to buy some.  The things I do to take one for the team. :P


Edited by Porthos (log)
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Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

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With all these prepared corned beefs going on sale soon, I'll restock the freezer.   I like to smoke them for pastrami.  I like corned beef but like pastrami even more 

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please consider, say  145 for the CB.  you might cut in half and compare ?

 

the the strengths of SV is simple  :  at a lower temp , for a bit longer at that temp :

 

more meat flavors stay in the meat .  you get your tenderness by time , not temp

 

at 145 or so there is some Jus

 

keep it and savor it as you then put it over the carrots , potatoes and cabbage  

 

sur le plate.

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@scubadoo97

 

good idea   but please look carefully at your selection

 

it will be in very small print

 

if they add enzymes  such s papain

 

hopeful there will be a way around this

 

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22 minutes ago, rotuts said:

please consider, say  145 for the CB.

 

I will try 145 F. I hope it renders enough fat out of the meat.


Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

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I do SV CB brisket or London broil or whatever is at a nice price. Dry rub with garlic, salt, pepper, allspice, mustard, coriander and nitrate for about 5 days depending on thickness.  Some get smoked for pastrami. 

 

I cook SV at whatever time temp is indicated by the cut.

 

the thing about sv is you can cook non brisket cuts and get juicy tender meat.  I believe that BoarsHead has CB made from top round. 

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Corned beef is in the plans, brisket is unlikely to happen unless I can convince the local store to special order it so I'll have to consider a different cut. I'll probably do sous vide if I can decide which direction I want to go with time and temp. ChefSteps says 60 C (140 F) for 48 hours. Anova says 57.2 C (135 F) for 48 hours. The Food Lab on Serious Eats says 82.2 C (180 F) for 10 hours wasn't as juicy as when done at lower temps but was more enjoyable to eat for their taste. They also suggested 71 C (160 F) for 36 hours as an option for a juicier but more dense and solid result. I don't do a lot of sous vide and don't cook a lot of corned beef so it's a lot to digest...

Edit: also, when cooking corned beef sous vide, would it be better to go with Rhulman's 5% brine for the curing process since none of the salt is going to be leached into a cooking liquid? I know when I cook corned beef by more traditional methods, the cooking liquid gets really salty. Is the resulting corned beef really salty if cooked sous vide? As you can tell, I haven't spent a lot of time making my own corned beef. I think this will be the 3rd or 4th time I've made my own and the first time cooking it sous vide.


Edited by Tri2Cook (log)
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It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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SV has been studied here for meat extensively

 

as has CB.

 

135 - 145  gives you meat with retention of more jus from the meat  than  160 - 189  which is more of a traditional braise w the jus 

 

rendered for sauce.

 

remember :  w SV  time gives you tenderness at all temps,

 

the two temp ranges just give you two different results  w regard to meat's moisture and flavor in the meat itself

 

there is no one way to cook CB.

 

just stop boiling it.  even allow simmer is way out of date for the best result.

 

unless you enjoy Steamy windows, and that cabbage smell every where , which is of course traditional 

 

llike socks you've forgotten to change and wash


Edited by rotuts (log)

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Yeah, It's that deciding part that I'm working on. I'm trying to decide in my head which result sounds better to me so thanks for the encouragement and sharing your temp preference.

P.S. Just for the record, I do very much enjoy steamy winter windows and cooking smells filling the house but I'm willing to forego that in the pursuit of a better result. :D

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It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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there are past threads full of experience and resulting tastiness of different  CB 's

 

at many of the above temps and various times.

 

I very much recommend them

 

that's where I started.

 

this year I hope to solve and move around the newer papain issues.

 

just read the fine print on  your selection of meats

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15 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:


P.S. Just for the record, I do very much enjoy steamy winter windows and cooking smells filling the house but I'm willing to forego that in the pursuit of a better result. :D

I care not for steamy windows, but cabbage cooking smells like dinner is coming. 

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1 minute ago, gfweb said:

I care not for steamy windows, but cabbage cooking smells like dinner is coming. 


Yeah, probably a bit of a niche thing. I'm thinking of cold winter evenings coming home from work to a house that smelled like something good cooking. I couldn't peek through the kitchen window to see what the family was up to because it would be steamed over but I knew they were in there and expecting me home. It's okay if I don't do that myself with the corned beef though, it wouldn't be the same anyway.

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It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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So just out of curiosity, if we're using sous vide to precisely control what happens to the meat during cooking and don't need the abundance of fat and collagen found in the more traditional cuts to avoid ending up with jerky, is there any down side to using something like a top sirloin roast for corned beef? I mean, other than price. Let's pretend that part doesn't matter just for the sake of discussion. Just to be clear, I'm not asking for brisket substitutes. I can get chuck/blade and other roasts no problem and I know what I'm asking wouldn't work too well for more traditional cooking methods. I'm just curious about using cuts from further up the chain while we're already being scientific and controlling with the cooking anyway.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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28 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:

So just out of curiosity, if we're using sous vide to precisely control what happens to the meat during cooking and don't need the abundance of fat and collagen found in the more traditional cuts to avoid ending up with jerky, is there any down side to using something like a top sirloin roast for corned beef? I mean, other than price. Let's pretend that part doesn't matter just for the sake of discussion. Just to be clear, I'm not asking for brisket substitutes. I can get chuck/blade and other roasts no problem and I know what I'm asking wouldn't work too well for more traditional cooking methods. I'm just curious about using cuts from further up the chain while we're already being scientific and controlling with the cooking anyway.

 

There isnt a downside other than a different texture than brisket. I do flank steak and top round as much as brisket cause they are cheaper. Most commercial deli corned beef is not brisket. I know that at Least one major company uses top round for corned beef and pastrami

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indeed , the most striking thing is texture.

 

but as meat de novo tastes differently muscle group by muscle group

 

you still get some of that by ' corning ' different cuts.  the corning however masks a lot of the beef flavor Id say

 

corning was used in cheaper cuts for lots or reasons :  who would want to ' corn ' a filet when you could sell it at 10 times a corned price ?

 

I like to get point cut, trim almost all or most of the external fat off , then SV

 

why ?  its cheaper than flat , but after removing the extra fat on point over less fat on flat , it may cost the same if not more

 

it does have more intramuscular connective tissue , but w prober SV  that turns itself into tender delicious flavor.

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Good points from you both. The texture's going to be different than brisket if I use anything other than brisket so that part I just have to accept regardless and the price part won't be relevant to me because getting the local store to special order brisket for me will cost more than anything I'd substitute with. Since I don't enjoy eating large pieces of fat no matter what meat I'm eating (I have no problem sacrificing a bit of meat to avoid a fatty area) and I'm controlling the cooking with sous vide to avoid dryness, I thought using a fairly lean cut might be nice. Anyway, there's still a lot of time until St. Patrick's Day to do a little experimenting. Thanks!

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It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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