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Nancy in Pátzcuaro

Gardening: (2016– )

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I love lovage! We marketed it as "Bloody Mary plant". The stem is hollow and tastes  of celery. Use as the straw :)

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I found this article fascinating...

 

"Plants can smell, now researchers know how"

Quote

Plants detect a class of odor molecules known as volatile organic compounds, which are essential for many plant survival strategies, including attracting birds and bees, deterring pests, and reacting to disease in nearby plants. These compounds also give essential oils their distinctive scents.

Years ago I read an article on tomatoes that claimed when a tomato plant was under attack by pests, the plant could release a chemical/scent that alerted nearby tomato plants about the pests. Then the plants would change their chemistry so any bugs dining on the plants would not get any sustaining nutrition and eat themselves to death, basically.

This new article's information as to how this "signalling" happens was enlightening for me and I thought I would share it with the rest of the class.

 

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“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'

Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”

– From Fox TV’s “Family Guy”

 

Tim Oliver

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15 hours ago, heidih said:

Can we talk nasturtiums? The seed capsules pickled like capers, the leaves as a spicy green, and the flowers in salad. No work - just a bit of seasonal rain :)  Even though the gardeners ripped mine out the seeds fell and with the bit of rain we had they are thriving. Had some tender young leaves in soup the other day.

 

Yes, for sure.

I usually plant "Empress of India" because I'm weird about having things a 'certain' way. LOL

The 'capers' are great. 

Many years ago, when my maternal grandmother grew nasturtiums—we usually ate the leaves in sandwiches, egg salad and the like.

But they're great in salads, as are the flowers—as you mentioned.


Edited by DiggingDogFarm (log)

~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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14 hours ago, heidih said:

I love lovage! We marketed it as "Bloody Mary plant". The stem is hollow and tastes  of celery. Use as the straw :)

 

Yeah, the straws are cool! cool.gif

The plant is great when blanched—deprived of sunlight in early spring.

I first learned about lovage MANY years ago for Annie Proulx, who wrote "Brokeback Mountain."


~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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3 hours ago, Toliver said:

I found this article fascinating...

 

"Plants can smell, now researchers know how"

Years ago I read an article on tomatoes that claimed when a tomato plant was under attack by pests, the plant could release a chemical/scent that alerted nearby tomato plants about the pests. Then the plants would change their chemistry so any bugs dining on the plants would not get any sustaining nutrition and eat themselves to death, basically.

This new article's information as to how this "signalling" happens was enlightening for me and I thought I would share it with the rest of the class.

 

 

If that interested you need to get hold of "The Secret Garden" by David Bodanis. That type of chemical communication is very much a part of plant life.  I picked it up at a plant sale on the 25cent table. Blew my mind.


Edited by heidih (log)
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That's very interesting.

Years ago—MANY years ago—when I was raising coturnix quail.

I wrote a paper, for school, about inter-egg communication among clutches of quail chicks just prior to hatching in order to sync hatching.

It's assumed that this behavior had developed so that the quail chicks could/would hatch at close to the same time so as to be up and running as a group ASAP to avoid predators.

I've always been fascinated by this sort of thing.

I wish I still had the paper! :(

And yes, this is gardening related, the quail droppings were used in compost for garden fertilizer. :)

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~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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Hey our local stables let gardeners in to collect manure. There are dedicated big 5 yard bins for manure and you are allowed to "help yourself" Yes! - in Los Angeles. 

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On 1/23/2019 at 6:37 PM, DiggingDogFarm said:

In the past I've explained my personal philosophy as to edibles in lawns rather than ornamentals—especially perennials (or annuals or bi-annuals that self-seed easily.)

I can't, personally, and with a conscience, bark about folks going hungry without promoting edibles as much as possible—not just talking the talk, but walking the walk.

I'll be adding several new things this year—unless I spiral in to a severe bout of depression.

 

The following one has me rather excited:

From Will Bonsall, at The Scatterseed Project.

"Dystaena Takesimana - "Wild Celery", "Korean Pig Plant" –a rare perennial (I offer seed) endemic to Ullung Island off Korea; edible and highly nutritious, I find it's flavour a bit strong though nothing like (ugh!) lovage – I've only tried it raw, never steamed; supposedly very valuable for forage, especially in very early spring. Collected by my late friend Prof. Elwyn Meader during the post-war occupation of Korea; he claimed it produced more valuable fodder per-acre than alfalfa; also very valuable as a nectiary."

 

Will told me that it's very hardy!

He's sending me some seeds!

 

"I find it's flavour a bit strong though nothing like (ugh!) lovage."

I'm extremely happy to hear that it's not like lovage—'celery' on STEROIDS! LOL :laugh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Ornamental edibles. I have a flower bed (raised, brick border) that goes across half of the front of my house (from carport to front stoop). It is my herb garden. Mid to late afternoon often finds me out there harvesting herbs to go in dinner. I grow mint, summer savory, oregano, thyme, basil, sage, chives, cilantro and parsley. The cilantro and parsley are just to the sorth side of the stoop, which is elevated five steps and affords them a little more shade (front of house faces west), so they take a bit longer to bolt.  

 

My big mistake was planting mint in the bed. It will be a mint bed in two or three years.

 

6 hours ago, Toliver said:

I found this article fascinating...

 

"Plants can smell, now researchers know how"

Years ago I read an article on tomatoes that claimed when a tomato plant was under attack by pests, the plant could release a chemical/scent that alerted nearby tomato plants about the pests. Then the plants would change their chemistry so any bugs dining on the plants would not get any sustaining nutrition and eat themselves to death, basically.

This new article's information as to how this "signalling" happens was enlightening for me and I thought I would share it with the rest of the class.

 

 

I just KNEW tomatoes were smart!

 

6 hours ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

Yes, for sure.

I usually plant "Empress of India" because I'm weird about having things a 'certain' way. LOL

The 'capers' are great. 

Many years ago, when my maternal grandmother grew nasturtiums—we usually ate the leaves in sandwiches, egg salad and the like.

But they're great in salads, as are the flowers—as you mentioned.

 

 

Going to attempt nasturtiums after I move and get new garden beds set up.  I have had "pickled" nasturtium flowers, which I think were just tossed in a very light viniagrette, with steak tartare, and they were marvelous.

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Don't ask. Eat it.

www.kayatthekeyboard.wordpress.com

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11 hours ago, kayb said:

 

My big mistake was planting mint in the bed. It will be a mint bed in two or three years.

 

 

My grandmother's house was on a lake, and when I was a kid there were two kinds of mint growing right at the verge. One more or less stayed put but the other invaded the lower lawn heavily, taking over about 2/3 of it. My father used to complain that on a hot summer's day, the oils of the mint plant would just about knock him off the riding mower.

 

After she died and the property was sold, the new owner quelled the mint by bulldozing the entire site and building a McMansion on it, blocking the view of the lake from any position other than inside the house. :(

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"The only questions that really matter are the ones you ask yourself."

Ursula K. Le Guin

 

"Not knowing the scope of your own ignorance is part of the human condition...The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re a member of the Dunning-Kruger club.” - psychologist David Dunning

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Like an idiot, I may have let a couple unique pepper cultivars go extinct!!!

For years I had a keen interest in developing dwarf peppers with unique qualities.

Most notably "Baby Cayenne" and "Baby Pequin."

But, I fell into a very deep depression and lost interest.

So, I'm going to attempt to revive some very old seed—if I can find the seed.

I have been studying the subject and I've developed a strategy.

I've known for a long time that Dr. Carolyn Male and Dr. Craig LeHoullier were a able to revive very old tomato seeds via diluted "blue stuff", AKA liquid Miracle-Gro.

I grow organically, but I'm not against using that stuff or something similar in a desperate situation such as this.

 

Baby Cayenne

7 inch long chile on an 8 inch tall plant!

jrw8bc.jpg

3 plants in this container... plants are 8-10 inches tall, 12-14 inches wide.
An amazing amount of chiles on such tiny plants.

34yy99t.jpg

 

Baby Pequin

Dwarf plant to 10-12 inches tall, 12-14 inches wide.
Fruits are upright, up to 3/4 of an inch long, medium heat, nice flavor.

2ldqv4.jpg

 

 


Edited by DiggingDogFarm (log)
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~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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Yup that dang blue stuff! I am Ms. Organic but a grower friend swears by it as a "reviver". 

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I ordered 8 ounces of Miracle-Gro.

The following is interesting: http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=1346

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~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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Got my seeds in the mail yesterday.  

 

Pumpkin-Connecticut Field

Sweet Corn-Nirvand Hybrid (highly recommend)

Green Onion

Banana Pepper

Cucumber-Burpee Pickler

Watermelon-Crimson Sweet and Georgia Rattlesnake

Squash-Golden Zebra and Burpee's Best Hybrid

Radish-Perfecto

Jalapeno-Big Guy

Bell Pepper-California Wonder

Bush Bean-Blue Lake

Okra-Clemson

Lettuce-EZ Serve and All Season Romaine

Mustard Green-Southern Giant

Cantaloupe-Hale's Best

Spinach-Bloomsdale

Collard Green-Georgia

Tomato-Steakhouse, Fourth of July, Early Girl, Better Boy and Baby Boomer

 

Onion and potato sets coming later


Edited by Shelby (log)
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On 1/23/2019 at 7:37 PM, DiggingDogFarm said:

In the past I've explained my personal philosophy as to edibles in lawns rather than ornamentals—especially perennials (or annuals or bi-annuals that self-seed easily.)

I can't, personally, and with a conscience, bark about folks going hungry without promoting edibles as much as possible—not just talking the talk, but walking the walk.

I'll be adding several new things this year—unless I spiral in to a severe bout of depression.

 

The following one has me rather excited:

From Will Bonsall, at The Scatterseed Project.

"Dystaena Takesimana - "Wild Celery", "Korean Pig Plant" –a rare perennial (I offer seed) endemic to Ullung Island off Korea; edible and highly nutritious, I find it's flavour a bit strong though nothing like (ugh!) lovage – I've only tried it raw, never steamed; supposedly very valuable for forage, especially in very early spring. Collected by my late friend Prof. Elwyn Meader during the post-war occupation of Korea; he claimed it produced more valuable fodder per-acre than alfalfa; also very valuable as a nectiary."

 

Will told me that it's very hardy!

He's sending me some seeds!

 

"I find it's flavour a bit strong though nothing like (ugh!) lovage."

I'm extremely happy to hear that it's not like lovage—'celery' on STEROIDS! LOL :laugh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Be careful with that stuff.

 

It is an awful weed which has basically taken over my backyard (no idea where it came from) but some Korean friends love it and often come to pick (and bring me awesome kimchi in exchange!) bags full of the stuff.

 

I would suggest pots, unless you want it to completely take over. 

 

Very invasive.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, TicTac said:

 

Be careful with that stuff.

 

It is an awful weed which has basically taken over my backyard (no idea where it came from) but some Korean friends love it and often come to pick (and bring me awesome kimchi in exchange!) bags full of the stuff.

 

I would suggest pots, unless you want it to completely take over. 

 

Very invasive.

 

 

 

Thanks!

It doesn't appear to spread via runners or the like, so it must just reseed easily.

Any edible that may drive out "Creeping Charlie" is a good thing!!!

Seriously, I have ways of "easily" controlling rambunctious plants if they become a problem—unless it's something like evil bindweed!!!!

The backyard and side yards are full of rambunctious, mostly wild, edibles that are perennials or annuals/biennials—that reseed and spread easily: lambsquarters, broadleaf plantain, patience dock. strawberry spinach, dandelion. pokeweed, purslane, knotweed, etc.

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~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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It does indeed spread underground with offshoots which are resilient as stink!!!

 

It also spreads with seed.

 

I do not mind it, and have prepared it in the fashion my Korean friends have suggested - but it is not something I would consume in large quantities!

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Shelby said:

Got my seeds in the mail yesterday.  

 

Pumpkin-Connecticut Field

Sweet Corn-Nirvand Hybrid (highly recommend)

Green Onion

Banana Pepper

Cucumber-Burpee Pickler

Watermelon-Crimson Sweet and Georgia Rattlesnake

Squash-Golden Zebra and Burpee's Best Hybrid

Radish-Perfecto

Jalapeno-Big Guy

Bell Pepper-California Wonder

Bush Bean-Blue Lake

Okra-Clemson

Lettuce-EZ Serve and All Season Romaine

Mustard Green-Southern Giant

Cantaloupe-Hale's Best

Spinach-Bloomsdale

Collard Green-Georgia

Tomato-Steakhouse, Fourth of July, Early Girl, Better Boy and Baby Boomer

 

Onion and potato sets coming later

 

 

You must have more acreage than I.  For my garden I am still deciding but I may include a pepper.  Meanwhile my peas are suffering black thumb disease.

 

 

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On reviving the old pepper seeds.

I found a heck of a lot of "Baby Pequin" seeds—hundreds!!!

I found what I think are the "Baby Cayenne" seeds—the labels totally faded on some of the old saved seed containers.

There are no more than 50 seeds.

 

Here's the tentative plan:

Surface sanitization with diluted hydrogen peroxide to kill fungi, molds, etc.

Aeration in diluted Miracle-Gro, maybe 0.25% to 0.5% for a time. I bought a round air stone and and air pump that's adjustable.

I'll place the seeds in a clam-shell tea ball while they're being aerated.

I'll attempt gemination in a agar fluid gel in an incubator.

I know about germinating in agar, or gelatin, or clear gel cat litter—I don't think the fluid gel thing has been done before—maybe, maybe not!

 

Thoughts, anyone?

 

ETA: Waiting on the Miracle-Gro. It should be here early next week.

The shed door is frozen shut, so I can't get to the air tubing!!! :angry:

High temperature of 53° is forecast for Monday—so I should be able to get into the shed before I receive the Miracle-Gro. yes.gif

 


Edited by DiggingDogFarm (log)

~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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Anyone watched the documentary "Back To Eden"?

 

"Back to Eden Film shares the story Paul Gautschi and his lifelong journey, walking with God and learning how to get back to the simple, productive organic gardening methods of sustainable provision that were given to man in the garden of Eden. The food growing system that has resulted from Paul Gautschi’s incredible experiences has garnered the interest of visitors from around the world. Never, until now, have Paul’s organic gardening methods been documented and shared like this!"

 

There are also follow-ups on YouTube.

 

 


~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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2 hours ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

On reviving the old pepper seeds.

I found a heck of a lot of "Baby Pequin" seeds—hundreds!!!

I found what I think are the "Baby Cayenne" seeds—the labels totally faded on some of the old saved seed containers.

There are no more than 50 seeds.

 

 

Wow....I never knew there was so much to reviving these seeds.  I'm really interested in those "Baby Pequin" seeds....they look interesting.

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Nothing is better than frying in lard.

Nothing.  Do not quote me on this.

 

Linda Ellerbee

Take Big Bites

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IMHO, lots of money is wasted on starting plants WAY too early.

What's most important, is soil temperature!!!

Tomatoes, for example, aren't going to do anything serious until the soil temperature hits 60 at root depth, and they'll do even better when the temperature hits 65 degrees—above that, they'll take off like a rocket.

Having the seeds germinated and ready to go, as tiny seedlings, when the soil temperature hits 60 degrees is enough.

One year, I sat out some very tiny Matt's Wild Cherry seedlings on the 26th of June—that's considered very late around here, especially for such tiny seedlings.

This was back when I was stacking cages made from concrete reinforcing wire as supports for tomatoes and other stuff.

The plants reached 15 to 18 feet before they were killed by frost!

 

Leggy (or spindly) plants can be caused by not only insufficient light, but also too much heat as well as fertilizer issues.

Having said that, having leggy tomato plants isn't the end of the world—just pinch off the lower leaves and trench plant them—they'll develop roots along the trenched stem.

But, you've created much more work for yourself than is necessary if you've reached the point of having to worry about leggy plants.

 

Expanding in what I wrote above:

From Growing greenhouse tomatoes in soil and in soilless media Dr. A.P. Papadopoulos Research Centre Harrow, Ontario
"Under a cold treatment regimen, place young tomato seedlings in a day and night air temperature of 50-55F/10-13C for approximately 2 weeks, while providing as much light as possible for 9-12 hours. Seedlings should be subjected to cold treatment just after the seed leaves (cotyledons) unfold and the first true leaves start to appear (see below). Shoots kept at low temperatures at this stage of growth produce a small number of leaves below the first flower cluster and therefore flower earlier; roots kept at low temperatures cause branched clusters, i.e., many flowers in the first and possibly the second cluster. Cold temperatures during both day and night are effective. The cold treatment increases the number of flowers but does not influence the setting of fruit. If later conditions for fruit setting are right, a greater number of flowers will set fruit because of the increased number of blossoms. If, however, the temperature for fruit set remains less than ideal, the pollen does not germinate and grow normally, resulting in poor fruit set and cat-faced fruit. When the cold treatment is used, seed 10-14 days earlier than usual to compensate for the slow growth rate during the cold treatment. The growth medium in the seedling trays must be sterile, because when plants are grown at relatively low temperature the danger of damping-off is increased."

 

This is usually quite easy to do when starting seeds late—it's easier to deal with a bunch of tiny plants rather than large ones!

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~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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On 1/15/2019 at 9:58 PM, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

It occurred to me that I may already have a few Mountain Magic seeds.

I'm going to look for them within the next few days.

If so, I could start them extra early and take some cuttings. yes.gif

 

I did find a packet of 15 Mountain Magic F1 seeds—packed for 2015! shock2.gif

I'll give them a try! yes.gif

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~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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FWIW,

Here Dr. Carolyn discusses her and Dr. Craig's experiences in reviving very old seed.

The reason I'm being extra careful in attempting to germinate the above mentioned seeds is that, back in 2016, I sent 150 "Baby Pequin" seeds to a guy in Brooklyn, NY—he wasn't able to get any of them to germinate! shock2.gif

But I know nothing of his general prowess in germinating seeds.


~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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