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How do you say "Otto"

Fat Guy

By Fat Guy
in New York: Dining

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Fat Guy

Fat Guy

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Nina -- Shouldn't a restaurant group's own view of what a restaurant should be called be deferred to?

This one seems like a no-brainer to me too, Cabrales. But I think we're in the minority.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Stone

Stone

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DStone001 -- Leaving aside the merits of your argument, how do you know hensonville is a male user? :wink: Plus, with all respect to hensonville, I am extremely picky (not that I have reason to be, but I am; that's not a statement with respect to only restaurants) and quirky. :laugh:

How do I know it would matter?

Quirky? You think?

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Wilfrid

Wilfrid

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I am extremely ...quirky.

Self-knowledge is a blessing. Not that I am without flaw.

A restaurant can name itself as it wishes, but I don't think it can arbitrarily legislate the pronunciation of the name, especially since, in this case the name is an actual, existing word. Why should they be able to?

Fat Bloke, yes of course one shouldn't ascribe those motives to individuals, but I do wonder where it all started. Everywhere in the language I can think of, an 'o' before a double 't' is short. Whence this affectation to lengthen it because the word is (or derives from Italian?). You see, it's not being Anglicized/Americanized or pronounced correctly. I can live with the former as well as the latter. It's the horrible in-between thing that grates. It really does grate.

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Stone

Stone

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Posted (edited)

Depends. How do you pronounce Ogonquit?

The issue here isn't how the restaurant chooses to pronounce its name, but how Americans should pronounce an Italian word used in America.

Edited by Dstone001 (log)
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Orik

Orik

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If it served tapas, and was called "Calle Ocho", and the owners asked us to rhyme "Calle" with "alley", would we be as accommodating?

And if it was called "Calle Alley"?

This example is somewhat problematic, as double-l can take on quite a few pronounciations depending on where you're from. I've heard Paella being called Pa-el-la, Pa-e-ia and Pa-e-ja.

M
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swissmiss

swissmiss

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The issue here isn't how the restaurant chooses to pronounce its name, but how Americans should pronounce an Italian word used in America.

Somewhat related: when I moved to Louisiana from Switzerland I pronounced all the first and last names of French origins the way I would have at home. No one understood me because that wasn't the way they pronounced it. So I adjusted my pronunciation to suit theirs, even though it sounds wrong for me to say muh-rie instead of mah-rie. But it was their names, thus their way.

Anne E. McBride

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jaybee

jaybee

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Depends. How do you pronounce Ogonquit?

The issue here isn't how the restaurant chooses to pronounce its name, but how Americans should pronounce an Italian word used in America.

IMHO the topic is I.N.A.N.E., pronounced in-ayne.

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cabrales

cabrales

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A restaurant can name itself as it wishes, but I don't think it can arbitrarily legislate the pronunciation of the name, especially since, in this case the name is an actual, existing word.  Why should they be able to?

Well, the name is an actual existing word in a language *other than* the commonly-utilized language of the country in which the restaurant is located. The deference to the normal pronounciation of the existing word should therefore be reduced.

An analogy would be if I created a French restaurant in New York called "Huit" -- I need not pronounce it like "wheat" (the French pronounciation) because perhaps the word "Huit" was not intended to refer to the French word for eight. The word "huit" has no known meaning in English, the language prevalent in NY. Thus, I could seek to have adopted a pronounciation of "Huit" restaurant in New York as "hoot", for example.

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Orik

Orik

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Because it's about some joint in NYC that makes skinny pizzas.  

And what if it was about some joint in Ogonquit that served scalloped pizzas? Would we spend 104 posts discussing how to pronounce Ogonquit?

Only if the owner would insist on using the !Ora pronounciation.

M
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Fat Guy

Fat Guy

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It would be interesting for a proactive user to reach out to the academic community on this one. Perhaps a google search would yield the names of several professors who focus on language issues of this sort. A few e-mails and who knows, someone might present us with a high level analysis or direct us towards one.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Stone

Stone

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Depends. How do you pronounce Ogonquit?

The issue here isn't how the restaurant chooses to pronounce its name, but how Americans should pronounce an Italian word used in America.

IMHO the topic is I.N.A.N.E., pronounced in-ayne.

Mah nishtanah, ha-topic, hazeh, m'call ha-tapicot.

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jaybee

jaybee

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Only if the owner would insist on using the !Ora pronounciation.

True, since the Natick tribe meant to call it Beautiful place by the sea, and in !Ors, it means the disembowled remains of a hyena-eaten carcass, hardly a name for a restaurant that would appeal to any but offal-eaters.

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Nick

Nick

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And what if it was about some joint in Ogonquit that served scalloped pizzas?  Would we spend 104 posts discussing how to pronounce Ogonquit?

No. This has become a ridiculous thread. If Mario could settle things once and for all, perhaps we wouldn't be so distracted by all this.

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