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The Bread Topic (2016–)


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47 minutes ago, dtremit said:


So glad it was helpful! It was a bit of a shot in the dark based on a few experiments I've done recently. 


I can sadly not offer much advice on the banneton -- I struggle with that myself, and had a similar mishap on my last loaf! 


For the dark crust and Dutch oven, though, I've found that flipping the loaf onto parchment and using that as a sling to lower it into the pot helps a lot. It also lets me pull it *out* of the pot really easily to do the last ~10 minutes of the bake directly on the oven rack; that has helped me get a darker top crust without a tough/burnt bottom.



I say this as a frequent sourdough baker, but I often question how much of the sourdough flavor is actually unique to the starter vs just coming from a forced, repeated, slow fermentation in the starter. If you built a "starter" with a tiny quantity of commercial yeast, I wonder how different the results would be?

this sums up my feelings on the subject. I’ve often kickstarted starters with commercial yeast and lactobacilli from yogurt whey (because you have an established, working starter from the get-go); the starter will behave identically to something wild with results I wouldn’t know weren’t traditional sourdough if I hadn’t done it myself. Could you tell a difference side by side between two loaves? Perhaps. But after a while such a starter will inevitably be colonized by a selection of microbes anyway so at that point the question is likely moot. 

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On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 7:03 AM, Kerry Beal said:

Didn’t Nathan and modernist bread have you mix up dough without the bran in it and add it later so that it wouldn’t cut the gluten strands?


They toast and prehydrate the bran and germ to minimize loss of volume.  The discussion is on page 4-135.  Note they do not dispute that bran results in a loss of volume.  What they question is that the loss of volume is due to bran cutting the gluten network.


Understand getting to this information was a major project.  Modernist Bread lives under eighteen other heavy books.  And then there is the task of finding exactly what you're looking for.


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4 hours ago, ElsieD said:


Your loaves always look so nice.  What do you slash them with?


Thank you.  I have an old (as in old) Chicago Cutlery paring knife that for decades has been reserved for slashing bread.  Though I have been known to use it as a picture prop...




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Something my Mother made for us, I made an Eccle Cake....

not really the appropriate design and shape, but, very tasty.  Brought back many memories of my youth.....7615E677-533A-42E2-931B-C87725F42F2E.thumb.jpeg.c2dcaef34168cc8b36bbc8a36e9b842c.jpeg

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10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:


Thank you.  I have an old (as in old) Chicago Cutlery paring knife that for decades has been reserved for slashing bread.  Though I have been known to use it as a picture prop...




Selling the image on line ?  do

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I tried something a little different with yesterday's dough.

I fed my starter again yesterday morning and rather than make a preferment (Biga), I just tossed the discard into 1000gs of flour, along with just 1 gram of yeast. The hydration was 72%.

Normally, after the stretch and folds, if I wasn't baking the same day, I would put the dough in the fridge for a cold fermentation. But I decided to leave the dough out and bake this morning.

So it had a slow fermentation at room temperature, sitting on the counter for 17 hours. I checked on it before I went to bed to make sure it wasn't rising too fast. It wasn't. At 5:00 this morning it had finally tripled and was ready to shape and proof.



Baked six baguettes




and one baby one for a friends 2 year old. He loves this bread.



Sliced for breakfast. Moe had it toasted with an omelette.


I started working five days a week instead of four.  Just for the next few months while we are busy.   So now that I know that this will work for me

I will be able to bake bread in the morning before leaving for work.   

Baguettes June 1st dough with discard and 1g of yeast 16 hour fermentation baked June 2nd  sliced.jpg

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12 minutes ago, rotuts said:



did you notice any differences in the bread w this new technique ?

@rotuts, not really.     Usually I would make the preferment and add that as the "yeast" and it would take much less time to triple than 17 hours if it had been left on the counter.   And 

the sourdough flavour would be stronger.   And as I have mentioned before, I really am not a big fan of sourdough.  I just like being able to make bread from a starter that I "grew" myself.  And Moe and Matt

both like sourdough.    This way, we are all happy.  The flavour of the bread is "sourdoughish" rather than full out.    And that I like.   

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Upthread I mentioned the problem I was having with my 13" USA Pan for pain de mei.  I got my replacement today, free of charge and I get to keep the old one.  Pleased with the result.

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Seeded bread with a porridge of oat bran and cornmeal. Sesame, poppy, flax, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, a little caraway and coriander seeds.







Edit: link to recpie from 2 ears ago.


Edited by shain (log)
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~ Shai N.

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4 hours ago, shain said:

Seeded bread with a porridge of oat bran and cornmeal. Sesame, poppy, flax, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, a little caraway and coriander seeds.



Along the lines of what Charlotte spun in her web about Wilbur: Some loaf!  

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That seed loaf is baller.


Milled some red fife today: 80% extraction after a single pass through 70-mesh. Too much work to do at once, but all the 50-mesh stuff is back-ordered and I'm tired of using tiny sieves. I'll work it back in when I actually do the bread.




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10 hours ago, Franci said:

Almost looks like the pizza bianca in teglia that I was looking for. 


What recipe and/or technique are you using, @Franci?


I was out for a couple of miles walk earlier this week, and for the first time in months, stopped into the Essex Market to visit one vendor, and get the hell out quickly. (They've got the streets between Essex/Allen and Houston/Delancey closed to vehicular traffic until noon, so it's somewhat pleasant).




A rye bread, half of a sourdough miche and 2 Kouign-Amanns.

Nice to have a couple of "real" breads.

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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😠 This is me pouting.  I had a complete no knead bread fail yesterday.  I’ve been hoping to find a no knead LOAF bread, but this one doesn’t seem to be it.  The dough seemed a lot more like batter than dough.  It was almost impossible to get in the pan.  By this time it is too late to add in more flour.  In the pan before the 2nd rise and after the 4-hour first rise:



Out of the pan and temped at 195F:



This end even drooped over the edge:



The sunken top:



Slice and the bottom edge:





I tore it up for Mr. Kim’s little furry buddies and it was so wet and dense that I had to clean out wet dough from underneath my fingernails.  So disappointing.

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@Kim Shook sorry the bread didn’t come out right! Did I get the recipe right? I am puzzled. It looks like just mix things in a bowl, stir, and than pour into the baking pan? No folds in between? If so doesn’t surprise me. The bread I made above it’s a no knead, same recipe of the focaccia. But I gave to it 3 sets of folds! 

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@weinoo, so here it is the recipe



Pizza in teglia alla romana. 

440g all purpose flour, use any you have available, don’t use something too rich in protein, unless you plan to keep the dough multiple days in the fridge. 
329 g water cold
12 g salt 
8 g extra virgin olive oil 
3 g instant yeast (I use SAF)

Add all the flour and the water in the mixer. Start the mixer, using the flat beater,  and mix on low until all flour is wet. No dry flour at the bottom. 

Take the bowl, cover with plastic wrap and refrigerate half an hour to 1 ½ hours. 

Start again the mixer on low and let it go for 2 minutes. Add the yeast and increase the speed of one more level and let it go for other 2 minutes. Increase the speed one more time and let it go other 2 minutes. Add the salt, and increase the speed and let it go again other 2 minutes, adding slowly the oil at the end. I am attaching a photo of how the dough looked when done. 

Transfer to the counter, let it sit for a couple minutes and “close” the dough by hand. I do some slap and folds and make a round  boule. The technique in Italian to create tension in a round dough is called pirlatura, in Spanish is called bolear el pan, in English, I don’t know (is there a name for it?).  Put in a lightly oil container, let it sit 30 minutes to one hour (depending on how hot it is) and then transfer to the fridge. You can take it out the same day 3-4 hours before baking or the day after, still taking it out 3-4 hours before baking.  When it’s out I portion it and give 2 sets of folds. For this quantity I use 650g of the teglia (I use a perforated half sheet pan) and I have a little dough left (120-130g) that I keep for a mini pizza the day after. For the folds, I use the technique of this guy: start watching at 16:47. I do 2 sets of these folds about 15 minutes apart before putting in a container with the cover oiled, just as he does. Let it rise at room temperature. After about 2 1/2 hours, I start preheating the oven 550F with stone function in my oven. At about 3 hours or depending on the rising, I spread in the tray, I use this technique. Note: the size of the container she uses to rise the dough is important. And also the flour she uses in the tray is durum (some people mix also durum and rice flour), I found that I bought Bob’s red Mill 100% stone Ground whole wheat organic flour (it was the only flour left at the moment and I don’t like it for baking except in very small quantity but perfect for dusting! Doesn’t burn much). I spray oil on the pizza in the pan (I have a chocolate gun) and bake at the very bottom of the oven 8 minutes total at 550F when is “bianca”, no tomato, no other stuff, just oil. I turn the tray at 4 minutes. Never open before because it’s when you get all the bubbles. 









Edited by Franci (log)
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3 hours ago, Franci said:

@weinoo, so here it is the recipe


Transfer to the counter, let it sit for a couple minutes and “close” the dough by hand. I do some slap and folds and make a round  boule. The technique in Italian to create tension in a round dough is called pirlatura, in Spanish is called bolear el pan, in English, I don’t know (is there a name for it?).


I'm sure there is - like divide, make into boules, and create tension in the surface of the dough? We English speakers are so not as cool as Italians or Spanish speakers!

Thanks for the recipe - a nice 75% hydration dough with a good autolyse. I can play with a bunch of different flours I have. But my main issue right now is cranking the oven to 550℉ - now that it's summer.

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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