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DianaM

The Bread Topic (2016–)

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8 hours ago, jimb0 said:

 

So, honestly I think sourdough is a bit overrated.

Hmmmm, where have I heard this before?

 

Oh yeah, I'm totally on that bandwagon.  Actually, I think I get pretty nice flavor (no, purists, not sourdough flavor) from a biga and a pretty nice, slow fermentation.

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

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I love sourdough .

 

I grew up in the Bay Area and there were always several choices later in life

 

that were fresh and locally made.  baguette style.

 

but not everything goes perfectly w SDB

 

full flavored cheese goes better w traditional bread I think.

 

so does chocolate .   the sourness of SDB overwhelms some of their flavors.

 

plenty nice to have a choice.

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7 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

With all respect, didn't @nathanm and Modernist Bread debunk this theory?

 

 

Didn’t Nathan and modernist bread have you mix up dough without the bran in it and add it later so that it wouldn’t cut the gluten strands?

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15 hours ago, Smithy said:

 

Thank you for this advice, dtremit. I tried following it today, using the same recipe as before except that I mixed all-purpose flour in with the artisanal bread flour. I autolysed the artisan flour separately while I let the A/P flour mix with the starter; then mixed them all and added the salt. Whether it was the separate autolysis or substitution of A/P flour (for about 1/3 of the flour) I don't know, but the dough came together and developed in a much more civilized fashion. It folded. It developed a tight skin. It rose. It did all those things without relentless kneading and excessive resting!

 

And then it stuck to the basket on the way into the preheated Dutch Oven. And when it hit that hot pot, all out of shape, it deflated and stuck to the sides of the pot. Grr.

 

See that crispy-looking edge? That's where it stuck, and charred.

 

The side view shows how deflated it is, and is reminiscent of Jughead's porkpie hat, for those of a certain age. Or maybe a cross-section of a pagoda.

 

Still. The crumb is tender (more so than the last batch) and the flavor is pretty good. Next time I'll try a slightly lower temperature in the oven, in hopes of its not being quite so dark, and I'll work more diligently to keep the loaf from sticking to the banneton. A heavily-floured liner cloth, perhaps? The basket was heavily floured already, but I didn't line it.

 

As before, advice will be welcome. @dtremit's suggestion was very helpful.

 

So glad it was helpful! It was a bit of a shot in the dark based on a few experiments I've done recently. 

 

I can sadly not offer much advice on the banneton -- I struggle with that myself, and had a similar mishap on my last loaf! 

 

For the dark crust and Dutch oven, though, I've found that flipping the loaf onto parchment and using that as a sling to lower it into the pot helps a lot. It also lets me pull it *out* of the pot really easily to do the last ~10 minutes of the bake directly on the oven rack; that has helped me get a darker top crust without a tough/burnt bottom.

 

6 hours ago, weinoo said:

Oh yeah, I'm totally on that bandwagon.  Actually, I think I get pretty nice flavor (no, purists, not sourdough flavor) from a biga and a pretty nice, slow fermentation.

 

I say this as a frequent sourdough baker, but I often question how much of the sourdough flavor is actually unique to the starter vs just coming from a forced, repeated, slow fermentation in the starter. If you built a "starter" with a tiny quantity of commercial yeast, I wonder how different the results would be?

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, dtremit said:

 

So glad it was helpful! It was a bit of a shot in the dark based on a few experiments I've done recently. 

 

I can sadly not offer much advice on the banneton -- I struggle with that myself, and had a similar mishap on my last loaf! 

 

For the dark crust and Dutch oven, though, I've found that flipping the loaf onto parchment and using that as a sling to lower it into the pot helps a lot. It also lets me pull it *out* of the pot really easily to do the last ~10 minutes of the bake directly on the oven rack; that has helped me get a darker top crust without a tough/burnt bottom.

 

 

I say this as a frequent sourdough baker, but I often question how much of the sourdough flavor is actually unique to the starter vs just coming from a forced, repeated, slow fermentation in the starter. If you built a "starter" with a tiny quantity of commercial yeast, I wonder how different the results would be?


this sums up my feelings on the subject. I’ve often kickstarted starters with commercial yeast and lactobacilli from yogurt whey (because you have an established, working starter from the get-go); the starter will behave identically to something wild with results I wouldn’t know weren’t traditional sourdough if I hadn’t done it myself. Could you tell a difference side by side between two loaves? Perhaps. But after a while such a starter will inevitably be colonized by a selection of microbes anyway so at that point the question is likely moot. 


Edited by jimb0 (log)

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Posted (edited)
On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 7:03 AM, Kerry Beal said:

Didn’t Nathan and modernist bread have you mix up dough without the bran in it and add it later so that it wouldn’t cut the gluten strands?

 

They toast and prehydrate the bran and germ to minimize loss of volume.  The discussion is on page 4-135.  Note they do not dispute that bran results in a loss of volume.  What they question is that the loss of volume is due to bran cutting the gluten network.

 

Understand getting to this information was a major project.  Modernist Bread lives under eighteen other heavy books.  And then there is the task of finding exactly what you're looking for.

 


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker spelling (log)
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11 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Bread05242020.png

 

 

 

Your loaves always look so nice.  What do you slash them with?

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4 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

Your loaves always look so nice.  What do you slash them with?

 

Thank you.  I have an old (as in old) Chicago Cutlery paring knife that for decades has been reserved for slashing bread.  Though I have been known to use it as a picture prop...

 

FancyRumCocktail12012013.jpg

 

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Something my Mother made for us, I made an Eccle Cake....

not really the appropriate design and shape, but, very tasty.  Brought back many memories of my youth.....7615E677-533A-42E2-931B-C87725F42F2E.thumb.jpeg.c2dcaef34168cc8b36bbc8a36e9b842c.jpeg

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10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Thank you.  I have an old (as in old) Chicago Cutlery paring knife that for decades has been reserved for slashing bread.  Though I have been known to use it as a picture prop...

 

FancyRumCocktail12012013.jpg

 

Selling the image on line ?  do

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Focaccia with almonds, onion and rosemary

 

IMG_4134.thumb.jpg.c48db2872ced1fef372ea3621bf33fb2.jpg

 

IMG_4138.thumb.jpg.a9c0b13d758d56828833426f80f7e8aa.jpg

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I tried something a little different with yesterday's dough.

I fed my starter again yesterday morning and rather than make a preferment (Biga), I just tossed the discard into 1000gs of flour, along with just 1 gram of yeast. The hydration was 72%.

Normally, after the stretch and folds, if I wasn't baking the same day, I would put the dough in the fridge for a cold fermentation. But I decided to leave the dough out and bake this morning.

So it had a slow fermentation at room temperature, sitting on the counter for 17 hours. I checked on it before I went to bed to make sure it wasn't rising too fast. It wasn't. At 5:00 this morning it had finally tripled and was ready to shape and proof.

2011752264_BaguettesJune1stdoughwithdiscardand1gofyeast16hourfermentationbakedJune2nd.thumb.jpg.75f80e4d205338d780e9015f68804dc4.jpg

 

Baked six baguettes

 

1994751622_BaguettesJune1stdoughwithdiscardand1gofyeast16hourfermentationbakedJune2nd3.thumb.jpg.c4861995bb76d0916d37150225482d6f.jpg

 

and one baby one for a friends 2 year old. He loves this bread.

 

1737969423_BaguettesJune1stdoughwithdiscardand1gofyeast16hourfermentationbakedJune2ndsliced1.thumb.jpg.e107093e09cbf93d28f9450dfef2a2c4.jpg

Sliced for breakfast. Moe had it toasted with an omelette.

 

I started working five days a week instead of four.  Just for the next few months while we are busy.   So now that I know that this will work for me

I will be able to bake bread in the morning before leaving for work.   

Baguettes June 1st dough with discard and 1g of yeast 16 hour fermentation baked June 2nd  sliced.jpg

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@Ann_T 

 

did you notice any differences in the bread w this new technique ?

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12 minutes ago, rotuts said:

@Ann_T 

 

did you notice any differences in the bread w this new technique ?

@rotuts, not really.     Usually I would make the preferment and add that as the "yeast" and it would take much less time to triple than 17 hours if it had been left on the counter.   And 

the sourdough flavour would be stronger.   And as I have mentioned before, I really am not a big fan of sourdough.  I just like being able to make bread from a starter that I "grew" myself.  And Moe and Matt

both like sourdough.    This way, we are all happy.  The flavour of the bread is "sourdoughish" rather than full out.    And that I like.   

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Upthread I mentioned the problem I was having with my 13" USA Pan for pain de mei.  I got my replacement today, free of charge and I get to keep the old one.  Pleased with the result.

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Posted (edited)

Seeded bread with a porridge of oat bran and cornmeal. Sesame, poppy, flax, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, a little caraway and coriander seeds.

 

 

IMG_20200530_183521.jpg

IMG_20200530_205043.jpg

IMG_20200530_213115.jpg

 

Edit: link to recpie from 2 ears ago.

 


Edited by shain (log)
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~ Shai N.

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4 hours ago, shain said:

Seeded bread with a porridge of oat bran and cornmeal. Sesame, poppy, flax, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, a little caraway and coriander seeds.

 

 

Along the lines of what Charlotte spun in her web about Wilbur: Some loaf!  

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That seed loaf is baller.

 

Milled some red fife today: 80% extraction after a single pass through 70-mesh. Too much work to do at once, but all the 50-mesh stuff is back-ordered and I'm tired of using tiny sieves. I'll work it back in when I actually do the bread.

 

 

OH68rQr.jpg

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10 hours ago, Franci said:

Almost looks like the pizza bianca in teglia that I was looking for. 

 

What recipe and/or technique are you using, @Franci?

 

I was out for a couple of miles walk earlier this week, and for the first time in months, stopped into the Essex Market to visit one vendor, and get the hell out quickly. (They've got the streets between Essex/Allen and Houston/Delancey closed to vehicular traffic until noon, so it's somewhat pleasant).

 

1857224719_PaindAvignon06-02.jpeg.a801b6e875c567716d2766ab08bc8135.jpeg

 

A rye bread, half of a sourdough miche and 2 Kouign-Amanns.

Nice to have a couple of "real" breads.

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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😠 This is me pouting.  I had a complete no knead bread fail yesterday.  I’ve been hoping to find a no knead LOAF bread, but this one doesn’t seem to be it.  The dough seemed a lot more like batter than dough.  It was almost impossible to get in the pan.  By this time it is too late to add in more flour.  In the pan before the 2nd rise and after the 4-hour first rise:

IMG_2407.jpg.0089a5c4c8ee1e4d0da54cc3dcb1dbb0.jpg

 

Out of the pan and temped at 195F:

IMG_2409.jpg.09bf354f22b684ea334b9aeb6fc88b8a.jpg

 

This end even drooped over the edge:

IMG_2411.thumb.jpg.0a133678b17229f8516f6a43b2433c3b.jpg

 

The sunken top:

IMG_2413.jpg.00c14c3d44b406802fb0f6b2034bfd9a.jpg

 

Slice and the bottom edge:

IMG_2416.jpg.70231290e490646eeb73c542353e9616.jpg

 

IMG_2417.thumb.jpg.f35fda8e0c8160dc2763b8b3d9572206.jpg

 

I tore it up for Mr. Kim’s little furry buddies and it was so wet and dense that I had to clean out wet dough from underneath my fingernails.  So disappointing.

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