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The Bread Topic (2016–)


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17 minutes ago, Norm Matthews said:

I baked my usual sour dough bread in my new-ish gas oven using the lower oven for the first time for bread.  The center came out perfectly baked but the crust was much darker and a little crustier than usual. Not that that is bad, just unexpected.  The only thing I can think that I did differently is put the egg wash on the crust a little heavier than usual. Oh another thing was I forgot to put some water in there for a little steam. I guess I will have to try some different things with this oven to see what makes a difference. 

 

@Norm Matthews a couple quick questions – is your "new-ish gas oven" a fan assisted one or just a standard non-fan gas unit? Also, what are the dimensions of your 2-up baguette tray (length x width). I am trying to find a 2-up baguette tray for a smallish boat oven and cannot find one in South Africa so trying to source one.

 

Those breads really look good!

Cape Town - At the foot of a flat topped mountain with a tablecloth covering it.

Some time ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.

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Thanks Norm - the 16" is just a bit too wide for a boat oven - I will continue looking!

Cape Town - At the foot of a flat topped mountain with a tablecloth covering it.

Some time ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.

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13 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Thanks Norm - the 16" is just a bit too wide for a boat oven - I will continue looking!

 I just measured mine and it’s the same size as Norm’s. 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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Thanks Anna, I am going down to the marina on Monday or Tuesday and will take a tape measure with to see the exact width of the oven. I looked on the Internet at the producers web site, but they do not list the internal measurements of their ovens, only volume, which does not help me. I may have to get hold of my metalwork fella who makes all my baking tins and pans and get him to manufacture one for me.

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Cape Town - At the foot of a flat topped mountain with a tablecloth covering it.

Some time ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've been on a bread making craze for a few months now.  But I have to admit, I'm a cheat, a novice and no where near all of your expertise level of making bread.  A cheat I suppose because I started by using the artisan bread no knead bake in a dutch oven derivation.  But I have made modifications along the way.  Yet I'm still searching for the proper "inner bread hole" mystery.  In any case, fresh out of the oven this afternoon....

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The recipe calls for 3 cups of all-purpose flour and they say you don't need bread flour.  But on other recipes I see where they call for high-gluten flour, suggesting Bob's Red Mill brand.  The interior of my bread is a bit too dense I think and while it has some "holes" I'd like it to be more similar to a very good artisanal bread with the larger "holes."  Any help out there?

 

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54 minutes ago, David Ross said:

The recipe calls for 3 cups of all-purpose flour and they say you don't need bread flour.  But on other recipes I see where they call for high-gluten flour, suggesting Bob's Red Mill brand.  The interior of my bread is a bit too dense I think and while it has some "holes" I'd like it to be more similar to a very good artisanal bread with the larger "holes."  Any help out there?

 

 

It would help if you could describe how you currently make your bread, e.g. hydration level etc.

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7 minutes ago, Honkman said:

 

It would help if you could describe how you currently make your bread, e.g. hydration level etc.

I'm no scientist, but I agree high hydration and also minimal kneading will get you where you want to go. Folding instead of kneading helps.

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Yep, you need a higher hydration to get the holes. And do use a high gluten flour than AP.. A few stretch' n folds during the fermentation stage should do - then shape, proof and bakel

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Cape Town - At the foot of a flat topped mountain with a tablecloth covering it.

Some time ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.

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43 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Yep, you need a higher hydration to get the holes. And do use a high gluten flour than AP.. A few stretch' n folds during the fermentation stage should do - then shape, proof and bakel

Thanks for the information.  And I'll start delving into the hydration issue.

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@David Ross you can get the holes with a 65 to 68 hydration.  You need good gluten development and a longer cold fermentation.

 

This bread was baked yesterday from a dough that had been made on Saturday and left in the fridge until yesterday morning.

68% hydration.  I have another 500g batch in the fridge made the same day that I'll probably bake tomorrow.  Also 68%.

 

5ac3a97a7fe6a_OsterovenfirstbreadbakeApril2nd2018sliced.thumb.jpg.e49d12a86969a2fc0032c709a3a83dc8.jpg

Sliced while still warm.

5ac3a98527f03_OsterovenfirstbreadbakeApril3rd2018.thumb.jpg.8b48a08c9b9e5949c552df518ee6988c.jpg

Sliced this morning for toast.

 

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50 minutes ago, Ann_T said:

@David Ross you can get the holes with a 65 to 68 hydration.  You need good gluten development and a longer cold fermentation.

 

This bread was baked yesterday from a dough that had been made on Saturday and left in the fridge until yesterday morning.

68% hydration.  I have another 500g batch in the fridge made the same day that I'll probably bake tomorrow.  Also 68%.

 

5ac3a97a7fe6a_OsterovenfirstbreadbakeApril2nd2018sliced.thumb.jpg.e49d12a86969a2fc0032c709a3a83dc8.jpg

Sliced while still warm.

5ac3a98527f03_OsterovenfirstbreadbakeApril3rd2018.thumb.jpg.8b48a08c9b9e5949c552df518ee6988c.jpg

Sliced this morning for toast.

 

Oh my oh my!  I'll be on that later today and thanks for the hydration ratio.  I admit I had no clue about that but this thread has sure helped.  And I'd much rather make that type of sumptuous bread at home than traipse over to the market and spend $5 bucks for it.  And it wouldn't be that fresh.

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12 grain bread, started with poolish and a soaker.   Had some for lunch today for grilled cheese sandwiches which had a blend of two cheeses - an Irish one called Claddagh Bo  and a local one, Těte à Papineau.  The inside of the sandwich had been spread with some caramelized onions.  Good stuff.

20180405_165846.jpg

Edited by ElsieD (log)
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Multigrain bread from the King Arthur recipe collection. Didn't have white whole wheat flour, so I used sprouted wheat flour. Very good.20180407_070635.thumb.jpg.faad757c4c77c273cf383b596a4f2bbd.jpg

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Don't ask. Eat it.

www.kayatthekeyboard.wordpress.com

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Using the Oster French Door oven  with a new  stone to bake bread.

 

Dough was made yesterday and left in the fridge overnight.

5acd00e659411_BaguettesintheOsternewstoneApril10th20184.thumb.jpg.5eeeab57c5f2a49c95a547dcf6a77387.jpg

 

Oven and stone big enough to bake three large baguettes at the same time.

5acd0107d9a63_BaguettesintheOsternewstoneApril10th20185.thumb.jpg.89e78c1daf4f6ed2366b2a3d59014f0a.jpg

5acd35f4bafac_BaguettesintheOsternewstoneApril10th20187.thumb.jpg.43dbe825922b6eb357fe80e5fac64f1c.jpg

 

ETA: a crumb shot. The hydration on this batch was 68%.

 

Edited by Ann_T (log)
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@keychris, what I wouldn't give for one of your croissants right about now. 

 

Still testing out the Oster.

Baked a large round in a Dutch Oven.  Even my Waring that died couldn't not accommodate a Dutch Oven with the lid on.   The more I use this oven, the more impressed I am with it.

 

5ad36b5a023fe_DutchOvenApril11th2018.thumb.jpg.aff1e95484d9c768f8befb133ea0d27c.jpg

 

Removed the lid after the first 30 minutes.

5ad36b44506d9_DutchOvenApril11th20181.thumb.jpg.0f7abbafb3bfda45a23b0a5f33286022.jpg

 

5ad36bbaf2fa7_DutchOvenRoundslicedApril12th20182.thumb.jpg.e8e32dfe41d69fbfdd122522ebfc4f14.jpg

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    • By gsquared
      Post your questions here -->> Q&A
      A Sampling of North Indian Breads
      Authors: Monica Bhide and Chef Sudhir Seth
      Introduction
      These breads are the taste of home for me -- wholesome breads prepared with simple ingredients and simple cooking methods. There are many different types of breads in North India. They can be prepared in the tandoor (clay oven, as is done in many restaurants), dry roasted, cooked on a griddle, or deep-fried. They can be prepared plain, or stuffed with savory or sweet filling, or just topped with mouthwatering garnishes.
      In the recipes below we are merely attempting to scratch the surface, presenting you with a glimpse of these magnificent breads.
      North Indian breads are prepared with various kinds of flours. The ones listed here use a whole-wheat flour known as atta and all-purpose flour. The dough is prepared in most cases without the use of yeast. (We have shown a special sweet bread here, called Sheermal, that is prepared using yeast.) Also, the tandoori breads are generally rolled out by hand not with a rolling pin. But in the recipes below, for ease of use for the home cook, we have used a rolling pin. As you will also see then, no special equipment is needed. We have prepared the breads in a traditional oven and in a non-stick skillet. (We have included some pictures towards the end of the lesson of a roti being prepared in a commercial tandoor.)
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      • Knead the dough well, adding only enough water or other specified liquid to make the dough the right consistency.
      • A must for preparing these breads is to let the dough rest as indicated. This will ensure that the dough softens and moistens, making it more pliable and easier to stretch
      • To prepare simple ghee (clarified butter) see below but for a in-depth discussion check out this wonderful thread in the India forum. (See the last few suggestions on preparing it by melting butter.)
      • You can also purchase ghee or clarified butter at your local Indian grocer or from www. Namaste.com.
      Clarified Butter (Ghee)
      Yields: About ½ cup
      ½ lb unsalted butter
      Heat a heavy pan over low heat. Add the butter, allowing it to melt. Once the butter has melted, increase the heat, bringing the butter to a simmer. The butter will start to foam.
      Reduce the heat and simmer for about 15 minutes. Watch carefully as it may burn. The milk solids will start to settle at the bottom, and the liquid butter will float to the surface. When the liquid butter becomes amber in color, remove it from from the heat. Cool to room temperature.
      Strain the amber liquid into a jar and discard the milk solids.
      Cover and store, refrigerated, for up to 6 months.
      Plain Naan Dough
      Naans are traditional Indian breads prepared in clay ovens or tandoors. They are commonplace on most Indian menus. We have tried here to present a simple dough for Naans and then two of the more unusual preparations for it: the Peshawari Naan and the Onion Kulcha. .
      • ½ cup milk
      • 1 teaspoon sugar
      • 1 cup warm water
      • 1 tablespoon yogurt
      • 1 egg
      • 4 cups of all-purpose flour (labelled "maida" in Indian grocery store)
      • 1 teaspoon salt
      • 1 teaspoon baking powder
      • 1 tablespoon vegetable oil (for baking tray)
      • 2 tablespoons clarified butter or ghee
      In a bowl whisk together the milk, sugar, water, yogurt and egg.
      Place the flour, salt and baking powder in a large shallow bowl. Mix well.
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      Oil the dough.
      Cover the dough with a damp cloth and place in a warm place for 1½ - 2 hours, or until the dough has doubled in volume.
      Directions for plain naan:
      Preheat the oven to 400 degrees F. Lightly grease a large, heavy baking tray and set aside. Lightly dust the rolling surface and rolling pin with flour.
      Knead the dough again on the floured surface for about 5 minutes. Divide it into 8 equal pieces and cover with a damp towel or plastic wrap.
      Roll each piece into a ball and flatten it with your hands. Using a rolling pin, roll it out into an oval shape (about 8 inches). Using your hands, pull at both ends of the oval to stretch it a little. Continue until you have made 8 naans.
      Brush each oval with clarified butter.

      Place the naans on the baking sheet bake for 5 minutes. Turn on the broiler and broil for an additional 3 minutes or until golden brown.
      Peshawari Naan
      In this delightfully sinful recipe, the naan dough is stuffed with dried nuts and raisins and baked. Serve this warm right out of the oven for the best taste.
      1 recipe prepared plain naan dough
      For the stuffing:
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      • 1 tablespoon almonds (crushed)
      • 1+1 tablespoons pistachios (crushed)
      • 1 tablespoon raisins
      • 1 teaspoon cilantro leaves, minced
      • 1 teaspoon sugar
      • 1 tablespoon Milk Mawa Powder (Dried whole milk powder)

      • 1 teaspoon fennel seeds, ground
      • 3 tablespoons melted butter or clarified butter
      Prepare the Naan dough.

      While the dough is resting, prepare the filling.
      Set aside 1 tablespoon of pistachios and the raisins. In a mixing bowl combine all the other filling ingredients. Add a few tablespoons of water to bind them together to form a lumpy consistency.
      Roll the dough into a log. Cut into 8 equal portions. Lightly dust the rolling surface with flour.
      Preheat the oven to 400 degrees F. Lightly grease a large, heavy baking tray and set aside. Lightly oil or flour your hands.
      Take one portion of the dough and roll into a ball between the palms of your hands. Flatten the ball. Place it on the floured surface. Use a rolling pin to roll it out into a circle about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.
      Add a tablespoon of the filling to the center. Bring the sides together and pinch them to seal and form a ball. Flatten lightly. Dust very lightly with flour.

      Roll the flattened ball again on a lightly floured surface until about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.
      Garnish with the reserved pistachios and raisins.

      Continue until you have made 8 naans.
      Brush each naan with clarified butter. Place the naans on the baking sheet and bake for 5 minutes. Turn on the broiler and broil for an additional 3 minutes or until golden brown.
      Serve hot.

      Onion Kulcha
      We present this recipe by popular demand. Here the naan is stuffed with a spiced onion mix and baked to perfection.
      1 recipe prepared plain naan dough
      For the stuffing:
      • 2 small red onions, finely chopped
      • 1 tablespoon minced cilantro
      • 1 tablespoon Chaat Masala (www.namaste.com)
      • 1 teaspoon red chili powder
      • Salt to taste
      • 3 tablespoons melted butter or clarified butter
      • 2 teaspoons cilantro, minced for garnish
      • small boiled potato, grated (optional)
      Prepare the naan dough.

      While the dough is resting, prepare the filling.

      First, using the palms of your hands, squeeze out all the water from the chopped onions. If the onions still appear to be watery, add a small boiled grated potato to your filling. This will prevent the filling from spilling out of the kulcha.
      In a mixing bowl combine all the filling to form a lumpy consistency.

      Roll the dough into a log. Cut into 8 equal portions. Lightly dust the rolling surface with flour.
      Preheat the oven to 400 degrees F. Lightly grease a large, heavy baking tray and set aside. Lightly oil or flour your hands.
      Take one portion of the dough and roll into a ball between the palms of your hands. Flatten the ball. Place it on the floured surface. Use a rolling pin to roll it out into a circle about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.

      Add a tablespoon of the filling to the center. Bring the sides together and pinch them to seal and form a ball. Flatten lightly. Dust very lightly with flour.

      Roll the flattened ball again on a lightly floured surface until about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.

      Dip your fingers in water and moisten the surface of the kulcha very lightly. Sprinkle with a few minced cilantro leaves. Continue until you have made 8 kulchas.

      Place the kulchas on the baking sheet and bake for 5 minutes. Turn on the broiler and broil for an additional 3 minutes or until golden brown.
      Serve hot.


      Ande Ka Paratha
      This is a unique addition to your recipe collection. A mild and flaky bread, it is a small kid’s favorite at our home.
      Makes 8 parathas
      • 2 cups Indian atta flour (whole-wheat flour)
      • 1½ teaspoons table salt
      • 2+2 tablespoons melted butter or clarified butter
      • Water as needed
      • 8 eggs
      In a bowl combine the flour, salt and two tablespoons of clarified butter. Slowly begin to add the water, kneading the flour as you go. Make a dough, kneading for at least 10 minutes. The final dough should be soft and pliable. It should not be sticky or else it will not roll out well.


      Cover the dough with a damp cloth or plastic wrap and let it sit for 30 minutes.

      Roll the dough into a log. Cut into 8 equal portions. Lightly dust the rolling surface with flour.
      Lightly oil or flour your hands. Take one portion and roll into a ball between the palms of your hands. Flatten the ball. Place it on the prepared floured surface. Use a rolling pin to roll it out into a circle about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.
      Now fold the dough over itself.

      Take the folded dough and roll it around itself into a spiral.

      Tuck the end under.

      Do this for all eight dough balls. (This folding and rolling will make the paratha very flaky.)

      Now flatten the spiral and roll again on a lightly floured surface until about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.


      Heat a griddle on medium heat. Brush it lightly with butter and add the paratha. Cook for about 2 minutes, or until the bottom of the paratha begins to blister. Brush the top lightly with butter and remove from heat. Put the paratha aside on a warm plate.

      Grease the same griddle a bit and break an egg on it. Cook the egg sunny side up. Place the cooked side of the paratha on the egg. Press down gently to break the yolk. Let it cook for a minute. Brush the top of the paratha with butter, flip carefully and cook for another minute or two until the paratha is no longer raw.


      Remove the paratha from the griddle and place on a serving platter. Cover with a paper towel. Continue until all the parathas are cooked.
      Serve hot.

      Indian Bread Stuffed With Spicy Potatoes (Aloo Ka Paratha)
      This filled paratha is a very popular North Indian bread, served traditionally with homemade white butter and Indian pickles of your choice.
      • 2 cups Indian atta flour (whole-wheat flour)
      • 4 tablespoons semolina
      • 1½ teaspoons table salt
      • 2 tablespoons melted clarified butter or butter
      • Water as needed
      • 3 medium potatoes, peeled
      • 2 Serrano green chilies, seeded and finely minced
      • 1 tablespoon cilantro, minced
      • 1 1-inch piece fresh ginger root, grated
      • 1 teaspoon Chaat Masala
      • 4 tablespoons melted clarified butter or butter
      • A few tablespoons flour for dusting
      In a bowl combine the wheat flour, semolina flour, salt and two tablespoons of clarified butter. Slowly begin to add the water, kneading the flour as you go. Make a dough, kneading for at least 10 minutes. The final dough should be soft and pliable. It should not be sticky, or else it will not roll out well.
      Cover the dough with a damp cloth or plastic wrap and let it sit for 30 minutes.
      While the dough is resting, prepare the filling.
      Boil the potatoes in enough water to cover for about 15 minutes. Drain.



      Put the potatoes in a bowl and mash them well with a fork. Add the green chilies, cilantro, ginger root, and chaat masala and mix well. Set this filling aside to cool.
      Roll the dough into a log. Cut into 8 equal portions. Lightly dust the rolling surface with flour.
      Lightly oil or flour your hands. Take one portion and roll into a ball between the palms of your hands. Flatten the ball. Place it on the prepared floured surface. Use a rolling pin to roll it out into a circle about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.
      Lightly brush the surface with the clarified butter. Add a tablespoon of the potato filling to the center. Bring the sides together and pinch them to seal and form a ball. Flatten lightly. Dust very lightly with flour.



      Roll the flattened ball again on a lightly floured surface until about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.


      Heat a griddle on medium heat. Brush it lightly with butter and add the paratha. Cook for about 2 minutes, or until the bottom of the paratha begins to blister. Brush the top lightly with butter and flip over. Cook for 2 minutes.

      Remove the paratha from the griddle and place on a serving platter. Cover with a paper towel. Continue until all the parathas are cooked.

      Sheermal
      A sweet bread, it is one of the few Indian breads that uses yeast. Keep the dough in a warm place to ensure that it rises. You can increase the amount of sugar if you like a sweeter taste.

      • 1 packet dry yeast
      • 1 teaspoon sugar
      • ¼ cup water
      • 1½ cups all-purpose flour
      • ¼ teaspoon salt
      • 2 tablespoons sugar
      • 2 eggs (separate 1 egg and set the yolk aside) beat the whole egg and the white together
      • 2 tablespoons melted clarified butter or butter
      • Extra flour for dusting
      • Pitted cherries/raisins for garnish
      Mix yeast with the sugar and 1/4 cup water. Set aside until frothy, about 5 - 10 minutes.
      Combine the flour, salt and sugar. Add the clarified butter, egg and yeast mixture. Knead until a smooth dough is formed. (You may need more warm water.) Set aside to rise until the dough doubles in size.
      Preheat the oven to 400 degrees F. Lightly grease a large, heavy baking tray and set aside. Lightly dust the rolling surface and rolling pin with flour.
      Knead the dough again on the floured surface for about 5 minutes. Divide it into 6 equal pieces and cover with a damp towel or plastic wrap.
      Roll each piece into a ball and flatten it with your hands. Using a rolling pin, roll it out into a disc. Continue until you have made 6 discs.
      Beat the reserved egg yolk and brush a little on each sheermal. Place a few cherries on the sheermal for garnish. Place the discs on the baking sheet and bake for 5 minutes.

      Turn on the broiler and broil for an additional 3 minutes, or until golden brown.

      Tandoori Roti
      We wanted to show how the tandoor is used to prepare breads. These pictures are of a special roti or bread, called Tandoori Roti, being prepared in the hot tandoor or clay oven.
      The basic recipe entails preparing a dough of whole-wheat flour. (See the paratha dough prepared earlier.) The flattened rolled out discs are then cooked in the tandoor until the dark spots begin appearing on the surface of the bread.




      Post your questions here -->> Q&A
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