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Sugar-free ice cream


adrianvm

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4 hours ago, teonzo said:

 

Serving temperature of ice-creams is generally between -12°C and -14°C, home freezers work between -18°C and -20°C. If you make ice-creams at home and they freeze solid in the freezer, well, it's how things are meant to be if you do them right.

 

 

This is right; the trouble with ice cream that lacks enough dissolved solids (with sugars being the most effective) is that at -12C, they're still hard as a rock. To get them soft enough, you have to warm them to a temperature that feels unnaturally warm for ice cream. 

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On 5/14/2016 at 11:04 PM, IndyRob said:

The condensed milk ice cream is very scoopable.I can attest to that,  But I have a hard time believing that the ingredients besides sugar are not playing a role.  Otherwise, why not just add sugar?  I think the egg yolks may help.  Heck, throw some tofu in there. 

 

 

It could be that the proteins in the condensed milk are also playing a role, but I think the sugar is the key ingredient.  Why use condensed milk instead of sugar?  Because condensed milk has the sugar already dissolved in a very high concentration.  To achieve the same effect with sugar you'd have to dissolve it in a liquid and to do that you'd need to apply heat, and then you'd have to wait longer for it to cool down.    (Condensed milk tastes better than pure sugar because of its milk flavor.  This would probably come out pretty good if you cooked the can first to make dulce de leche.)   I'll bet if you used corn syrup instead of condensed milk the recipe would work.  But that would make people uncomfortable. 

 

The recipe I found for this is 2 cups cream, 1 can condensed milk.  So that's 1.1 cups of sugar, which is more sugar than I use in my conventional recipe.   If whipped cream doubles in volume that means overrun is 60%, so I think you can mainly understand this recipe on the basis of sugar and overrun.   When I tried a recipe that called for whipped cream (and whipped egg whites) without the large amount of sugar (1.25 cup heavy cream, 4 eggs, 1/2 cup erythritol) the resulting product froze hard and had an icy texture.  It wasn't scoopable. 

 

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Thanks for the considered response and especially that ratio.  I think the ATK recipe used a partial can of the SCM, which is pretty awkward.

 

Incidentally (not for your purposes, but for anyone intrigued by the SCM/No-machine method), I was at Walmart today and noticed a clearance cart - Everything under $2!.  It had cans of Eagle brand chocolate-flavored SCM for $1.98.  Had never seen that before. I bought three, but don't have any results yet as I've been doing other things.  I hope they're going to eliminate an entire ingredient for my chocolate ice cream.  Then again they were on clearance, so we'll see....

 

So, anyway, I thought that I'd be whipping up some cream soon, so why not steal a little bit for an experiment?  I looked at my wife's sweeteners and came up with Sweet 'N Low, and two stevia based sweeteners (Stevia in the Raw and Equal Stevia Extract).  I asked her if she wasn't using any of them and she said she wasn't using any of them.  Ok, so I looked back and I believe you said that Stevia would be acceptable, if not for brand differences/variances related to taste/aftertaste issues.  Well, I'll never be able to anticipate your personal taste and I anticipate any level of success would not be as good as the sugar for me.  But it's about the texture, right?

 

Alright, so gosh, I wonder if anyone has made SCM using Stevia.  I found this recipe...

https://myreecipes.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/stevia-sweetened-condensed-milk/

 

Not only does she claim that it was a success, but the ice cream she made with it was 'amazing'  Hmm.  I'll just need some powdered milk.  I think I have some powdered buttermilk somewhere.  That ought to do....

 

Edit for a note about the temperature issue - I put my mixture in a 32oz deli container which fits nicely in the door of the freezer.  So that's where it stays and it's probably decidedly warmer than if I put it in the back of the freezer.

 

Edited by IndyRob (log)
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I have to admit I'd be more interested in the dulce de leche variation on the ice cream than the chocolate sweetened condensed milk version.  (I do tend to find chocolate ice cream disappointingly unchocolatey).  But I'll be curious to hear about your results.  Be aware that the ratio I reported was the first hit on my google search, not the result of an exhaustive search. 

 

One thing to be aware of with the stevia sweeteners is that many of them are cut with something else, so for example Stevia in the Raw is actually glucose plus stevia in the packets, and maltodextrin plus stevia if you have the "bakers" version.   So if you use a lot of that product you're sneaking sugar in through the back door, which would invalidate your test.  The stevia is about 100 times sweeter than sucrose, so it's hard to meter it out by itself.   My jar of concentrated powder came with a little scoop that is around 1/64 tsp.  One way to do a texture test would be to make it unsweetened, because stevia is so concentrated it will have no effect on the texture---so you could just freeze a blob of whipped cream and see what you get. 

 

There are a few different sweetened condensed milk recipes out there that involve long cooking of milk (with erythritol) or coconut milk (with erythritol).  This is a lot of work and in the context of the ice cream problem...just skip it and add the erythritol if that's the answer.  I think the attraction of condensed milk is the simplicity.   The problem with the condensed milk recipe you linked to is that it contains powdered milk---a lot of powdered milk, and milk contains sugar.  The recipe gives the range of 2-4 cups of powdered milk, which corresponds to 139 - 278 g of lactose.   So there's actually quite a lot of sugar in this condensed milk.  She doesn't say what the yield is, so it's hard to compare, but a can of regular condensed milk at about 220 g of sugars seems to be comparable!  Furthermore, she states in the ice cream recipe (The one for "belgian" chocolate) that it was soft after 2 hours in the freezer, but went hard over night.   Note that from what I've seen, most people making sugar-free ice cream expect it to be rock hard in the freezer.

 

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Interesting. Would/should the cutting be reflected in the ingredient label?  All I'm seeing is dextrose and Stevia in some form (other than cellulose in one case and 'natural flavorings').

 

So, powdered milk is out.  Wouldn't this exclude the whole whipped cream thing?  Perhaps I'll learn something(s) here.  Does cream not contain the sugar?

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Heavy whipping cream is relatively low in carbohydrate — ~3 grams of carbohydrate per 100 grams of cream.

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

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23 hours ago, adrianvm said:

Dextrose is another name for glucose. 

 

It is, but there's a lot of room for confusion, because pastry people use glucose in different forms: glucose syrup, atomized glucose (basically the dried powder form of the syrup) and anhydrous glucose (the powder form that's usually sold as dextrose). 

 

These all behave differently and so are not interchangeable. I usually specify dextrose, because that's most likely to be understood as the anydrous powder that I prefer in ice cream.

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I started a test today.  I prepared a mix from 2 cups heavy cream, 1 cup water, 16 g whey protein, 6 egg yolks, 1/4 cup erythritol, and a pinch salt.  I added stevia to taste (and lost track of how much I added).   I cooked the mix (a little too much---oops), strained it.   I divided it in half.  To one half added 2g of cremodan 30 and to the other half I added a tablespoon of glycerin.  Then I chilled the mixes in an ice bath and churned them. The first batch I churned was the cremodan mix.  It chilled (much) faster (because it was in a metal bowl) and when it reached 40 deg F I churned it until it was too thick to move in the machine, about 3 minutes.  I attempted to measure the overrun and estimated it at about 5% (the weight of a cup of the mix went from 8.2 oz to 7.8 oz).  I chilled the second batch (with the glycerin) and it actually ended up a bit colder, about 37 F before I churned it.  I'm using the Cuisinart with the bowls you chill in the freezer and I have two bowls that were both well chilled in my chest freezer, so I started with a fresh bowl each time.  The batch with the glycerin had a much longer residence time in the machine, about 6 minutes.  It was clearly softer at the point where it was no longer moving in the machine.  I measured the overrun at 18% (the weight of a cup went from 8 oz to 6.8 oz).   I do wonder what the effect of batch size is on overrun.   I'm also not sure why the mix with the glycerin was 0.2 oz lighter before churning. One possible explanation is that because the mix containing cremodan was thicker, I filled the measuring cup above its sides slightly and had more mix in it.  If that's the case then 5% was an overestimate on the overrun. 

 

The remaining ice cream is chilling in the freezer and I'll assess scoopability tomorrow. 

 

Edited by adrianvm
grammar and clarity (log)
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Adrian, I want to be you when i grow up.  I appreciate your tenacity and the way you test things against each other.  I can't keep track the way you do, but I'm trying!  On the Bob Mills web site, it says that xanthum gum is better for baked goods and guar gum is better for ice cream.  Also said that guar gum and  carageenan (sp?) work well together for ice cream.  BTW, when I tried a near-sugar free vanilla year or so ago, I found that a combination of several different artificual sweeteners worked better than any of them alone.  Alas, I didn't take good notes and can't tell you which ones.  One more question:  Who eat all that ice  cream at your house?  

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2 hours ago, adrianvm said:

I started a test today.  I prepared a mix from 2 cups heavy cream, 1 cup water, 16 g whey protein, 6 egg yolks, 1/4 cup erythritol, and a pinch salt.  I added stevia to taste (and lost track of how much I added).   I cooked the mix (a little too much---oops), strained it.   I divided it in half.  To one half added 2g of cremodan 30 and to the other half I added a tablespoon of glycerin.  Then I chilled the mixes in an ice bath and churned them. The first batch I churned was the cremodan mix.  It chilled (much) faster (because it was in a metal bowl) and when it reached 40 deg F I churned it until it was too thick to move in the machine, about 3 minutes.  I attempted to measure the overrun and estimated it at about 5% (the weight of a cup of the mix went from 8.2 oz to 7.8 oz).  I chilled the second batch (with the glycerin) and it actually ended up a bit colder, about 37 F before I churned it.  I'm using the Cuisinart with the bowls you chill in the freezer and I have two bowls that were both well chilled in my chest freezer, so I started with a fresh bowl each time.  The batch with the glycerin had a much longer residence time in the machine, about 6 minutes.  It was clearly softer at the point where it was no longer moving in the machine.  I measured the overrun at 18% (the weight of a cup went from 8 oz to 6.8 oz).   I do wonder what the effect of batch size is on overrun.   I'm also not sure why the mix with the glycerin was 0.2 oz lighter before churning. One possible explanation is that because the mix containing cremodan was thicker, I filled the measuring cup above its sides slightly and had more mix in it.  If that's the case then 5% was an overestimate on the overrun. 

 

The remaining ice cream is chilling in the freezer and I'll assess scoopability tomorrow. 

 

 

 

Cremodan has to be heated to 186F for it to be active and fully hydrate.

 

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Why 186? I looked up the constituents in Ideas in Food.

sodium alginate: can gel at any temperature
carageenan: hydrates around 175-185
locust bean paste: begins to degrade around 176
guard gum: no temperature given, but "can take 2 hours to hydrate in cold liquids"

I figured based on those numbers that I wanted to heat it to 175 or so. My procedure wasn't great: it was 193 when I removed it from the heat. I strained it, divided it, and immediately added the Cremodan, and I neglected to take the temperature at that point, so I don't know how much it cooled. Perhaps the carrageenan wasn't activated.

Xanthan gum doesn't seem to be recommended for ice cream. It's not clear to me if that's just due to cost or superiority of other gums for this application. Ideas in Food says that xanthan gum inhibits ice crystal formation and "is used in frozen preparations to ensure a smooth texture and mouthfeel." Locust bean gets mentioned frequently for ice cream as well. Since you sent me the cremodan I figured I would avoid the question of which stabilizer(s) to use and assume that the cremodan is a good combination of stabilizers and I can use it to assess the value and function of stabilizers. The cremodan appears to be overpriced, so if stabilizers appear to be important, I could then try to figure out my own formula.

My general impression is that the more non-sugar sweeteners you use the better the result. (I think somebody suggested a combination earlier in this discussion.) In the case of Stevia, the plant produces dozens of sweet compounds. Some vendors sell a refinement containing just the single sweetest compound. I don't think it tastes as good. I stick to erythritol and stevia mainly because I'm less certain about the safety of other sweeteners. (Or in the case of some such as maltitol, they have a high blood sugar impact.)

Everybody in the house eats ice cream, though I don't think the kids ever touch the sugar free stuff. They make their own, conventional ice cream.

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Manufacturers will give a hydration temperature for their gums that may differ from the generic temperatures you'll read elsewhere. Gum molecules are heterogenous; from any source there will be different versions of the molecules that will hydrate at different temperatures. The gum companies make their formulas by carefully selecting the source and refining for a particular range of molecules for each product. 

 

But the hydration temperature they give is still most likely a recommendation. The locust bean gum I use is supposed to hydrate at 80°C. When I asked the manufacturer what would happen if I only cook it to 75°C°, the rep said that probably 90% of it would hydrate. Which is easy (and maybe even unnecessary) to compensate for. But probably at 50°C it would be completely inneffective.

Edited by paulraphael (log)

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6 hours ago, adrianvm said:

Xanthan gum doesn't seem to be recommended for ice cream. It's not clear to me if that's just due to cost or superiority of other gums for this application.

 

It works fine, but it's not the best. Other gums and combinations suppress ice crystals better, and offer better flexibility with textures. Manufacturers dislike xanthan because it's relatively expensive.

 

A big problem I have with xanthan is that when used in combination with locust bean gum (which is the best among natural gums for suppressing ice crystals) it forms a gel. So after aging, the mix is as thick as pudding. You have to blend it to break the gel and get it thin enough to spin in an ice cream machine, and even then it's thicker than what's ideal.

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16 hours ago, adrianvm said:

I do wonder what the effect of batch size is on overrun. 

I have noticed your concern over the fast freezing times you get with 1 pint batches.  In three or even six minutes you can't get as much air as I do with the same recipe and 25 minutes,  I realize the guy at ice cream science says minimize residence time to avoid ice crystals, but it seems to me you aren't getting enough air.  Have you thought of using a mixer for a few seconds or minutes to beat in air before you start freezing? 

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5 hours ago, paulraphael said:

Gum molecules are heterogenous; from any source there will be different versions of the molecules that will hydrate at different temperatures.

Does that mean that the guar gum from one source won't necessarily perform the same as guar gum from another source?  

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2 hours ago, Tennessee Cowboy said:

Does that mean that the guar gum from one source won't necessarily perform the same as guar gum from another source?  

 

Absolutely. This is why chefs often specify a brand.

 

So far I haven't noticed the differences, but I haven't been using gums for the kinds of things that would be sensitive to the most subtle changes. And I haven't done strict a/b tests on them. Right now I have a couple of brands of locust bean gum on the shelf, and in ice cream they seem about the same.

 

For critical stuff, you can also probably expect better consistency from one batch to the next if you buy from the more technical companies, like CP Kelko and TIC gums. These guys publish elaborate specifications and quality guarantees. I bought my last bach of xanthan at the supermarket ... Bob's Red Mill. I would not expect this stuff to be so tightly controlled. Which isn't to say I've ever had a problem with it. I definitely appreciate being able to buy it right down the block.

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6 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

I definitely appreciate being able to buy it right down the block.

Sigh, me too.  I'm not enough of a dedicated afficianado, I fear.  Also, I use it in such small amounts that I think I have a lifetime supply of xanthum gum in little packets from Whole Foods (the brand is Hodgson Mill, and the smallest box has 21 packets with a TABLESPOON in each!  I also have a bag of guar gum from Bob's.  Other than Locust Gum, what other  thickeners are worth adding to my cupboard?

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I think the guy at icecreamscience does say that longer residence time gives higher overrun.  I hadn't thought that just using a mixer would create a stable enough foam to keep air incorporated.  I didn't think you could get a stable foam with a fat content lower than heavy cream (36%).  Does anybody have insight?  I wonder if the stabilizers would help the mix retain air.  I made a recipe that was prepared in a blender, with the blender running for several minutes, and it didn't seem to have a lot of incorporated air---but it was a weird recipe with butter instead of cream.  I was thinking about folding in whipped cream---but not whipping all of the cream.  I want to revisit the recipe  I made before with the whipped cream---figure out what its overrun is and decide what I think of its texture.  Of course, another phenomenon there was that the whipping of the cream made the volume of the mix much larger and may have increased residence time.  (Air is an insulator.) 

 

I was looking that recipe over and noticed that it calls for 1 tsp low-sugar pectin.  What, if anything, might this do?  It's a custard style mix that gets heated to 180.  (Normally pi

 

I sampled the ice creams after about 24 hours of hardening in the freezer.  The ice cream with the glycerin was soft and scoopable straight from the freezer.  The ice cream with the cremodan was much harder.  The ice cream was in a thin layer and I was able to break off some pieces with a spoon and after ten minutes at room temperature it was soft enough to eat.  This made me wish I had a control with no special ingredients added, because I feel like even that result was somewhat softer than I would have gotten with no additives.   Certainly in the past I've had batches (with different formulation) that needed to warm up for 30 minutes so I could cut them with a chef's knife into portions.  The need to heat the ice cream mix to 186 seems like a significant limitation of the cremodan.   I detected a slight iciness in the cremodan treated product as well.  I suspect this may have been due to the time I spent measuring overrun (after churning and before hardening) during which the ice cream melted slightly.  (However, it doesn't demonstrate great powers of ice crystal suppression from the stabilizers, which are supposed to keep ice crystals from growing during such abuse in the frost-free freezer.)

 

So glycerin seems like a great option assuming that its metabolic impact is acceptable (which I still don't know).   Cremodan may have helped, but without a control I can't tell for sure, and it didn't help enough by itself.  But perhaps combined with increased overrun the result might be good.  Because overrun wasn't controlled I can't isolate the effect of the additives in my study---was the glycerin treated product softer because of the glycerin, or because it had 3.6 times more air incorporated? 

 

I was wondering what the right amount of overrun is so I took a look at the Cooks Illustrated review of commercial ice creams where they list overrun, and found that their two top picks (Ben and Jerry's and Haagen Dazs) have about 25% overrun.  It's interesting to note that almost every other product on their list has 95% overrun---and I think I read somewhere that the legal maximum is 100%, so clearly the other brands are all pushing the limit. 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Tennessee Cowboy said:

Sigh, me too.  I'm not enough of a dedicated afficianado, I fear.  Also, I use it in such small amounts that I think I have a lifetime supply of xanthum gum in little packets from Whole Foods (the brand is Hodgson Mill, and the smallest box has 21 packets with a TABLESPOON in each!  I also have a bag of guar gum from Bob's.  Other than Locust Gum, what other  thickeners are worth adding to my cupboard?

 

It's not such a big deal. I'm sure the consumer brands are fine for most purposes. If you're working with laboratory precision, and demand perfect repeatability from batch to batch, that's another story. 

 

I haven't used any commercial stabilizer blends. Every pastry chef I know uses them, so clearly they're good. I mix my own partly as a vestige of my darkroom days, when I learned that dependence on a commercial product sets you up for disappointment when that product gets discontinued or "improved." And also, I wanted to learn about these magic ingredients in a way that I couldn't if someone else was doing the experimenting and keeping the results secret. Because of this, I'm starting to feel like I'm in control enough to vary my blend for different flavors, which feels pretty cool. 

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I revisited the recipe that had the whipped cream.  It called for 3/8 cup half and half, 3 egg yolks, 25 g erythritol, 25 g polydextrose, cooked into a custard.  Then you fold in 3 whipped egg whites and 1.5 cups of cream, whipped.   I tried to determine the overrun, and had some difficulty.  I estimated the density of my initial mix at 8.9 oz / cup, which seems too high.  The measured density after churning was 4.6 oz / cup.  If I trust those numbers the overrun is 93%.  If I assume it was more like 8.2 oz / cup before churning then the overrun is 78%. 

 

The resulting ice cream is easily scoopable out of the freezer, but not as soft as the ice cream containing the glycerin from the previous test.  It also has an odd hard feel in the mouth despite being scoopable.  So it seems that I can increase overrun quite high through this method of incorporating whipped eggs and cream, but this alone doesn't give a satisfactory texture.

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To investigate the effect of batch size on overrun I made a full batch of the same recipe I tested previously, 2 cups cream, 1 cup water, 16 g whey protein, 6 egg yolks, 1/4 cup erythritol, 2 T glycerin, 3/32 tsp KAL stevia powder.   I cooked it, cooled it to 40 F, and churned it in my machine.  Residence time was 18 minutes, so three times longer than a half-batch.  Overrun was 38%, so double a half batch.  The pre-churn density was 8.4 oz / cup, which is higher than my measurement last time of 8 oz / cup the last time.  Not sure what to make of that. 

 

The resulting ice cream is very soft.  It also melts very quickly.  Another observation is that it seems to have a icy / watery feel...though it doesn't seem to be coarse.  I'm not sure how to describe it.  I'm wonder this is a result of decreased total solids because of the sugar reduction.   Because it is softer than necessary I think the amount of glycerin needs to be reduced. 

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I repeated the recipe above but reduced the glycerin to 1/3 the amount: 2 tsp.  I was doing 4 things at once in the kitchen and neglected to make good measurements, but the density of a cup of the finished ice cream was around 6 oz / cup, which is a teeny bit lighter than what I got above.   The resulting ice cream has been chilling for 18 hours and is still easily scoopable directly out of the freezer. 

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On May 10, 2016 at 9:47 AM, adrianvm said:

I've been making sugar free ice creams, and while most of them come out OK from the machine, once they have rested in the freezer they freeze solid.  Even if I'm willing to go to the trouble of warming them up, it often seems to be a difficult task---the outside melts completely but the inside is still too hard to eat.   (I suppose slow warming for perhaps an hour or two in the fridge might work, but I've never been that patient.) 

 

So I'm wondering about possible approaches to make things better.  I understand that sugar plays a key role in controlling ice cream texture, so this could be a pretty difficult thing to do, especially if I try to avoid sugar-like replacement substances.  I'd love to have an approach that was completely flexible and didn't rely on using erythritol or other sugar-like sweeteners, for example.   McGee explains the role of sugar in a sorbet in a very simple fashion: ice crystals form and what's left behind is a highly concentrated sugar solution that can't freeze, hence the produce remains scoopable (if there is enough sugar).  But the role of fats and other solids in ice cream is a mystery to me. 

 

I've been  using erythritol and sometimes erythritol and polydextrose and still getting rock hard results.  For example, I took a recipe that works with sugar:

 

2 cups heavy cream

1 cup milk

2/3 cup sugar

6 egg yolks

 

and I replaced the sugar with 1/3 cup polydextrose and 1/3 cup erythritol and the result froze hard.   I have to imagine that if I added enough polydextrose and/or erythritol I'd succeed eventually.  But is there any other path to success here?  The one recipe I ran across that really worked did so through the curious process of whipping cream and egg whites and then chilling the pre-aerated mix in the ice cream maker.  In other words, it made use of a huge overrun.  This ice cream was oddly airy and fluffy straight out of the machine.

 

So I'm curious about other possibilities.  What about using stabilizers?  Do stabilizers just suppress ice crystals, or can they improve scoopability?   (Somebody who sells Cremodan 30 is telling me it can improve scoopability in a sugar free ice cream---the cost to try it out (~$40)  is kind of high, though.)  

 

Another thing I've seen but haven't tried is isomalto oligosacharides (e.g. Vitafiber).  Anybody know the likely effect of these molecules?  Similar to polydextrose? 

 

I tried substituting Splenda one time for an ice cream, and the result could have been used for construction.  

 

Just starting to to learn about stabilizers-I'm in the "there's too dang many to keep track of" camp right now.  I think I read on another thread about using Xanthan gum for texture and smoothness, but I haven't used it personally.

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