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minas6907

Chocolate Panning Attachments

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The reason you can find glaze and not polish, is all about shelf life. The glazes last forever (almost), while the polish is only good for a few weeks or months. Get some samples, because you can't buy in small quantities. Store in refrigerator.

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I just wanted to give a small update in regards to the polishing. I got an email back from a rep at TIC Gums, he was very helpful. Here was his reply:

 

-------

Thank you for contacting TIC Gums. I have received your request for samples for use in a high gloss polish for panned dragees. Our product samples are intended for use in benchtop trials for large food manufacturers who are developing products, and are not approved for use in finished goods (our order minimums are generally 44-55 lbs). Due to the high demand for gums by chefs and mixologists, they can be purchased in our online a la carte store in 6-8 oz quantities and can be found at the link below.

 

https://qnet.e-quantum2k.com/~brite/Custom/1145/RETAIL/cgi-bin/nph-your-catalog.cgi   

 

If you are looking for a very high gloss coating, your best bet would be to look for a supplier of shellac, but if you are looking for a non-animal alternative you can certainly evaluate gum acacia. In this process, you should make up a solution of sealing syrup comprised of 40% gum acacia in water. To prepare the solution:

 

1.       Add 40 parts gum acacia to 60 parts water.

2.       Heat up to 80°C to ensure the acacia is fully hydrated.

3.       Maintain a temperature between 25-60°C while applying.

 

For the application process, using the 40% gum acacia syrup, add a charge of ~1 part syrup per 100 parts dragee(by weight) to provide a protective film. Dry with air. Repeat this step two more times. This coating will have some shine, but not quite as much as a shellac will.  ARABIC PH-FT PRE-HYDRATED® GUM Arabic FT is a gum acacia product which can be purchased in the a la carte store. Please feel free to contact me if you have any other questions.

-------

 

So I did give it a try, I had some gum arabic, and did exactly what he said, I'm surprised how much it polished the dragees. Here are some pictures, and I apologize for the quality, it was sort of an afterthought to take them, but I'm glad I did.

 

I panned some cacao nibs. I actually wanted them to come out as a bunch of little tiny spheres....but they started bunching up and formed clusters, so I just went with it. Anyhow, as far as taste goes, I love them, as far as looks, I sort of wish I didnt add the confectioners glaze....it doesnt come out how I imagine it to, I'm probably applying it wrong as well as the room being warmer then recommended.

 

The first picture are the clusters before polishing, after they had a chance to crystallize for a day. Second pic is after polishing with the gum arabic syrup, then the third has confectioners glaze applied. Again, I wish I didnt apply the glaze, it doesnt look to sexy, although it could be the lighting. Anyways, just thought I'd update.

2015-06-25 13.42.34.jpg

2015-06-25 14.04.57.jpg

2015-06-25 14.09.46.jpg

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You think they look too shiny so it highlights the inherent flaws?

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I do feel that way, I also feel that the lighting was a bit on the bright side so that also contributes. Maybe they need to just be smoothed out more. What are your thoughts? Is this how they normally come out for you? I think in my mind I imagine them coming out all glossy and smooth like any commercial product (im thinking Kirkland raisins, almonds, junior mints, etc) I know its a long shot, and even if you have the right ingredients, they have to be applied in the correct manner. I think im setting the bar too high, but I cant say Im totally satisfied. Honestly, if I polish, I think im just going to stick with the gum arabic solution and not the glaze. Aside from cocoa powder and confectioners sugar, Ive also been experimenting with other finishes, such as matcha powder, peanut butter powder, ground cacao nibs, etc.

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I've discovered that very few things come out perfectly like the commercial stuff. Although when you look carefully at a lot of the commercial stuff you realize it looks better on first glance! 

 

I'm also not consistently satisfied with my results. Big, really round things have a better chance than small, not very round things. The little square chunks of coconut I did before I left for up north looked like a dog's breakfast - but tasted great!

 

I like the ones finished with powders of various sorts - only trouble is they kind of muck up the inside of the bags. 

 

But like anything - there's a learning curve - and you need to practice, practice, practice.  (it's a lot of product though when you aren't happy with the results)

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Ok, well thats reassuring that I should really be expecting perfection. Im looking forward to getting some of the malt ball centers, although im hoping I can play with them before summer really kicks in. Also Kerry, you mentioned panning with dextrose, do you have general guidlines I can go by just to give it a try? I was thinking of getting a container of it. Thanks for all your help (and everyone else), im glad I ended up getting the pan, its opened up alot of avenues.

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I don't have the little book up here where I write all my panning stuff in. But from what I recall you make a seriously supersaturated solution of dextrose monohydrate (70% solids or higher), a little charge of that with some powdered dextrose the first couple of times, then charges of the solution which will fairly quickly dry and go powdery indicating another charge required. No sucrose mixed with the dextrose - even the colouring shouldn't contain any or it interferes with the crystallization.

 

They then sat for a day before polishing I seem to recall - and they kinda polish themselves if I remember correctly. I might have used some beeswax/carnuba wax on them.

 

This exercise has a lot of information - I did the NCA course in 2006 and I believe it was from my notes that I came up with the method. 

 

 

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Hey thanks for all the info Kerry, and thats an interesting pdf, i look forward looking through it when I get some time. Hopefully I can get to panning some more items soon, the weather is warming quite a bit, so I may have to put things on hold for the summer months.

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Minas,

 

What cooling system do you use?

Kerry and I have a different views on results... lol!

 

It is a balance between cold and hot air that will give you the roundness searched for. In order to fill those gaps and you need to warm the chocolate and let it cool till you get a flawless product.

 

A company you can look into is mantrose. For now its the best polish and shellac. But proportion wise i use .4 - .2 and if needed .1 but I use it on cold products with warmer air.

Keeping my products under 18C for the best shine.

 

Contact me through FB or email, I'll send you something

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Minas,

 

What cooling system do you use?

Kerry and I have a different views on results... lol!

 

It is a balance between cold and hot air that will give you the roundness searched for. In order to fill those gaps and you need to warm the chocolate and let it cool till you get a flawless product.

 

A company you can look into is mantrose. For now its the best polish and shellac. But proportion wise i use .4 - .2 and if needed .1 but I use it on cold products with warmer air.

Keeping my products under 18C for the best shine.

 

Contact me through FB or email, I'll send you something

Alleguede, sorry for taking so long to reply, I've been busy and also wanted to be detailed.

 

About the cooling system, I really dont have one. I've been thinking about different options (that are small and reasonably priced), but havent really been able to come up with much. I've seen a portable a/c unit used, as well as a setup using a blow dryer attached at one end to a cooler with dry ice and a flexible hose coming out the other. I really havent found something effective yet. Another factor I'm not able to control is the room temp, which on an average day could be 75ish or warmer, and during winter it can be 50-60.

 

I've been panning on cooler days, and so far the summer has been pretty mild here in southern California. My first attempt at panning was with milk chocolate, and that was sort of a pain. The weather was a little warmer, so it had trouble setting up in the pan, and I've seen that also with the white chocolate, its just much softer. With dark chocolate, it seems to definitly set up faster, so I would have some chocolate in a disposable piping bag, pipe in a small amount to cover, and just wait for it to set up, which for untempered chocolate, it happens quite quickly in the pan.

 

Something else I was messing around with to build chocolate up was engrossing by hand in a bowl, and then smoothing out in the pan, which has worked ok, but its not perfect, it helped when it was a little bit warmer in the kitchen.

 

About the polishing, I'm not as worried about purchasing a polish and shellac as I was before. It's something that I just want to know how to do, but will likely not offer it to any customers (unless I really get good at it) but everything I've made really has just been tests and trials to see how things work. I had some recent success with gum arabic solution that the rep from tic gums emailed me. Recently I panned some expresso beans using Callebaut 54% . I had already made up the 40% gum solution, so I sealed the espresso beans first, then started engrossing. It went ok, alot of doubles and triples formed (I think I have a tendency to add too much chocolate) then those formed triples...all in all, there were plenty of nice small ones, but a fair about of large clusters. Then I tried polishing again, only using the same gum solution. I added around 7 or 8 charges, with the last few significantly small then the first, each time blowing with cool air from a blow dryer.

 

So heres the results, they came out quite nice, have a smooth feel on the tongue, and look much better then any attempt to polish before. I was tempted to add the confectioners glaze, but had a feeling I would have screwed them up. Anywho, any thoughts are welcome, thanks!

2015-07-12 18.13.21.jpg

2015-07-12 18.13.28.jpg

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Posted (edited)
On 5/26/2015 at 4:45 PM, minas6907 said:

Hi everyone. Recently I got this huge itch to go ahead and do some chocolate panning. I was always discouraged because the pans are so expensive, and even more recently, when I went to the chef rubber show room, I saw one in person, and the thing didnt feel like it was worth the $575 price tag. I checked the price at pastry chef central, and the model they sell $699, although its different then the one at chef rubber. Last night I was doing some googling and youtubing, and came across a DIY chocolate pan. Heres the you tube link:

 

 

 

I'd love to make my own, that would be awesome, but just wanted to put this out there, has anyone built their own panning unit? I know there was a discussion a while back about using a cement mixer, which was rather interesting. Then too, I just saw this pan this morning, which comes in at a more affordable $351.

 

https://www.koerner-co.com/tools-utensils/103096-confi-kit-for-kitchen-aid.html?search_query=confi+kit&results=2

 

Has anyone used the confi kit? I'm seeing those little alligator clips again, but am also trying to look past that. I just wanted peoples thoughts on these different models, or if theres ones I've missed.

 

In case anyone is interested, I made my own panner similar to this one, and it seems to be working fine (it's a great machine for learning how to pan and for small scale stuff, but if you are doing panning of any significant quantity, I would recommend a commercial unit).  If anyone wants to make their own (they cost between $100 and $200 for all-new parts, less if you have patience and salvaging skills) and wants advice, feel free to reply or message me.

 


Edited by Trufflenaut (log)

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On 3/3/2018 at 2:44 PM, Trufflenaut said:

In case anyone is interested, I made my own panner similar to this one, and it seems to be working fine (it's a great machine for learning how to pan and for small scale stuff, but if you are doing panning of any significant quantity, I would recommend a commercial unit).  If anyone wants to make their own (they cost between $100 and $200 for all-new parts, less if you have patience and salvaging skills) and wants advice, feel free to reply or message me.

Can you post pictures of your pan? It's been so long since I've read this thread, I'm having flashbacks to when I was wanting to build one!

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2 minutes ago, minas6907 said:

Can you post pictures of your pan? It's been so long since I've read this thread, I'm having flashbacks to when I was wanting to build one!

 

Here ya go:

37F02F8E-4E0B-476B-B3FA-E594A9172530.thumb.jpeg.4f96185ac3170ff46c6998741787e17b.jpeg511FA661-D413-489A-A9A6-08604F0A4072.thumb.jpeg.3611cdff828176da6cba1d3ca77d99e6.jpeg

 

It ain’t pretty, but it works and is cheap (and unlike the one in the youtube video, it has a secondary gearbox, so the drill used to power it can run at nearly full speed so it will last longer, while providing greater variability in RPMs)

 

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Wow...that is so cool, seriously. No joke, this is like an improved version of what I wanted to build. That frame supporting it is nice, your quite handy, seriously, I envy the skills. I wanted to build mine, but just ended up buying the one mentioned in the first post.

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3 minutes ago, minas6907 said:

Wow...that is so cool, seriously. No joke, this is like an improved version of what I wanted to build. That frame supporting it is nice, your quite handy, seriously, I envy the skills. I wanted to build mine, but just ended up buying the one mentioned in the first post.

Thanks!  I was SUPER happy when it actually worked as intended :)

 

Assuming the gif upload works, here it is coating about 1/4 lb of coffee beans in chocolate (the pan looks pretty full in the vid, but it’s just a trick of the angle - it can probably pan a full pound or more without any problem)

 

D6181E5F-9B59-455E-B696-F8D0E02023A6.gif.b1c5b10ef731636a5b98b8c80a6a697d.gif

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Glad to see this thread. 

 

I run a small engineering factory in addition to my interest in chocolates. I was interested to try out Panning and was thinking and reading about it from whatever came across. After a while I decided to build a panning machine myself and for trial I just tied a pan on one of my Lathe machine using some metallic wires and rotated it with help of the lathe motor.

 

To cool down the chocolate instead of using a blower I used my coolant pump to pour ice chilled water on to the pan. This proved to be a disaster. It cooled won so quickly that the chocolate stuck to the pan instead of almonds that I was trying to coat. Then I used a hair drier to warm it up and again started the process but it didn't look promising due to below factors:

 

1) Lack of cooling. I needed a blow cool air over the product being coated. 

2) Lack of obstacles in the pan. Some small rods or other stuff are placed i the pan which keeps the product tumbling instead of sliding. It also helps avoid sticking of products. 

 

I am tied up with a few things now and hence unable to make above modifications to try again but will definitely try it in December when weather is cold and it will be easier. 

 

PS I did watch the video on youtube where a guy proposed using a drill or dremel to rotate the pan. If i remember correctly the guy in the comment section said that the drill motor soon gave up and hence its not a proper solution for a panning machine. 

 

 


Edited by prashamk (log)

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7 hours ago, prashamk said:

Glad to see this thread. 

 

I run a small engineering factory in addition to my interest in chocolates. I was interested to try out Panning and was thinking and reading about it from whatever came across. After a while I decided to build a panning machine myself and for trial I just tied a pan on one of my Lathe machine using some metallic wires and rotated it with help of the lathe motor.

 

To cool down the chocolate instead of using a blower I used my coolant pump to pour ice chilled water on to the pan. This proved to be a disaster. It cooled won so quickly that the chocolate stuck to the pan instead of almonds that I was trying to coat. Then I used a hair drier to warm it up and again started the process but it didn't look promising due to below factors:

 

1) Lack of cooling. I needed a blow cool air over the product being coated. 

2) Lack of obstacles in the pan. Some small rods or other stuff are placed i the pan which keeps the product tumbling instead of sliding. It also helps avoid sticking of products. 

 

I am tied up with a few things now and hence unable to make above modifications to try again but will definitely try it in December when weather is cold and it will be easier. 

 

PS I did watch the video on youtube where a guy proposed using a drill or dremel to rotate the pan. If i remember correctly the guy in the comment section said that the drill motor soon gave up and hence its not a proper solution for a panning machine. 

 

 

 

Got a chuckle when I read about the water cooled option!

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Before getting too involved with the modifications you mentioned, you might try putting the items you are panning into the freezer for half an hour or so before panning (or in the refrigerator for a few hours).  The chocolate will set very quickly on the cold items, and much less quickly on the room-temperature pan.  If you are panning something dense like macadamia nuts or hazelnuts, they'll stay cold enough to keep setting the chocolate for most of the panning session, and when they warm up too much for the chocolate to set nicely, you can just stick them in the fridge for a little while, then continue.  For less dense items like coffee beans, you'll just need to give them a break in the fridge more often.  Note that you don't want everything to be too cold - you just want it to be cold enough that the chocolate sets "very quickly" and not instantly (though once you get the hang of it, you might try experimenting with very cold centers - it can make interesting things happen).  I've panned several pounds of nuts and coffee beans so far, and I've only needed an occasional blast of air with a fan (not cooled air) to have pretty good results.  I also don't have any obstacles in my pan, and have found that if I use cold centers, I don't really need them - the chocolate ends up coating the pan with a rough surface of chocolate, and that ends up providing enough grip to keep things tumbling.  I usually only have troubles with getting things tumbling at the very beginning, until they get a nice layer of chocolate started, and the cold centers help speed up that initial process.

 

Give it a try before making any modifications to your pan - you may find out you don't need the mods...  Or you may find out that you do need them, but at least you won't have lost much time or materials in the testing. :)

 

As for using drill motors in panning machines, the problem is that drill motors need to spin very fast to get enough cooling so they don't overheat - constantly running them at the low speeds needed for panning will make them burn out very quickly.  I solved this problem in my panning machine by taking the gearbox out of one drill, and putting it in the chuck of another intact drill, and attaching the pan to the gearbox - this gave enough of a speed reduction that the intact drill runs at nearly full speed, while the pan runs at good panning speed.  If you are planning on going this route, feel free to message me and I'll can give you any advice you need.

 

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Actually a little handfull of dry ice in the panner will work very nicely. If things are getting too lumpy just take out a bit of the dry ice. Alternating with your heat gun/hairdryer will help round things out.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Trufflenaut said:

Before getting too involved with the modifications you mentioned, you might try putting the items you are panning into the freezer for half an hour or so before panning (or in the refrigerator for a few hours).  The chocolate will set very quickly on the cold items, and much less quickly on the room-temperature pan.  If you are panning something dense like macadamia nuts or hazelnuts, they'll stay cold enough to keep setting the chocolate for most of the panning session, and when they warm up too much for the chocolate to set nicely, you can just stick them in the fridge for a little while, then continue.  For less dense items like coffee beans, you'll just need to give them a break in the fridge more often.  Note that you don't want everything to be too cold - you just want it to be cold enough that the chocolate sets "very quickly" and not instantly (though once you get the hang of it, you might try experimenting with very cold centers - it can make interesting things happen).  I've panned several pounds of nuts and coffee beans so far, and I've only needed an occasional blast of air with a fan (not cooled air) to have pretty good results.  I also don't have any obstacles in my pan, and have found that if I use cold centers, I don't really need them - the chocolate ends up coating the pan with a rough surface of chocolate, and that ends up providing enough grip to keep things tumbling.  I usually only have troubles with getting things tumbling at the very beginning, until they get a nice layer of chocolate started, and the cold centers help speed up that initial process.

 

Give it a try before making any modifications to your pan - you may find out you don't need the mods...  Or you may find out that you do need them, but at least you won't have lost much time or materials in the testing. :)

 

As for using drill motors in panning machines, the problem is that drill motors need to spin very fast to get enough cooling so they don't overheat - constantly running them at the low speeds needed for panning will make them burn out very quickly.  I solved this problem in my panning machine by taking the gearbox out of one drill, and putting it in the chuck of another intact drill, and attaching the pan to the gearbox - this gave enough of a speed reduction that the intact drill runs at nearly full speed, while the pan runs at good panning speed.  If you are planning on going this route, feel free to message me and I'll can give you any advice you need.

 

 

 

As far as using cold nuts is concerned, I believe that since Panning is a long process, I may have to transfer the product many times from pan to refrigerator and vice versa. Local climatic condition will add fuel to the fire :D So its not suitable for me.

Regarding the modification of drill motors, I feel you did a great job in reduction of the pan speed. 

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16 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Actually a little handfull of dry ice in the panner will work very nicely. If things are getting too lumpy just take out a bit of the dry ice. Alternating with your heat gun/hairdryer will help round things out.

 

 

 

Have you tried this? Dry Ice is way cooler than the Ice water I used to cool down the pan. I fear that the chocolate will set instantly if I use Dry Ice :( 

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I haven't tried it personally, but have used dry ice quite a bit.  I think if you use just a small amount of pieces about 10-15mm in diameter, it will keep the nuts cool, but not too cold.  While dry ice itself is very cold, it doesn't have the best heat transfer properties, especially as it would be constantly tumbling with the nuts so not in direct contact with any one area for very long.

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26 minutes ago, prashamk said:

 

Have you tried this? Dry Ice is way cooler than the Ice water I used to cool down the pan. I fear that the chocolate will set instantly if I use Dry Ice :( 

Yes - If you search the chocolate index in eGullet you will find my demo on panning that uses dry ice. I have improved my technique considerably since that time. You can see some of the results in other threads about panning.

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