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minas6907

Chocolate Panning Attachments

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Hi everyone. Recently I got this huge itch to go ahead and do some chocolate panning. I was always discouraged because the pans are so expensive, and even more recently, when I went to the chef rubber show room, I saw one in person, and the thing didnt feel like it was worth the $575 price tag. I checked the price at pastry chef central, and the model they sell $699, although its different then the one at chef rubber. Last night I was doing some googling and youtubing, and came across a DIY chocolate pan. Heres the you tube link:

 

 

I'd love to make my own, that would be awesome, but just wanted to put this out there, has anyone built their own panning unit? I know there was a discussion a while back about using a cement mixer, which was rather interesting. Then too, I just saw this pan this morning, which comes in at a more affordable $351.

 

https://www.koerner-co.com/tools-utensils/103096-confi-kit-for-kitchen-aid.html?search_query=confi+kit&results=2

 

Has anyone used the confi kit? I'm seeing those little alligator clips again, but am also trying to look past that. I just wanted peoples thoughts on these different models, or if theres ones I've missed.

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Wonder if the drill has the oomph to go for the kind of time needed for panning?

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As far as possibly making my own (right now that confi kit is looking good though), I didnt have in mind using a drill to power it, I was thinking of having a piece of square metal stock come out the end so it can fit into the kitchen aid. It was just an idea, clever person though.

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If you have the tools to make one, I say go for it.  I have the D&R coating pan  http://www.dr.ca/confectionery-coating-pan-attachment.html%C2'> It is finished nicely enough with a rolled edge piece attached on the open side, but it is still basically two bowls, one with a hole cut in it, and a square stem attached to the back to go in the kitchen aid.  You do wonder why it is $500, supply and demand I guess.  The square stem to fit the mixer would be the hardest part to come up with.  Nice that he (in the video) added screws to keep it together instead of just a bunch of clips, but it might be nice to have a wing nut for easy separation and cleaning.

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I'll see if I can add a few pics to help you scheme

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The square bit on the end is about 10-1/2 mm square by 15 mm deep.  (This pic is of the two halves stacked one inside the other.)

Hope that helps!

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Edited by pastrygirl (log)

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Kerry asked me whether the Teflon bushing spins freely. It does. That part of the stem is round, only the end bit is square. The bushing fits 90% into the machine and is what the tightening screw holds onto.image.jpg

image.jpg

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Hey, just an update about the pan. Pastrygirl, I really appreciate the close up pictures of the piece that inserts into the kitchen aid. I wanted to build the pan, but I think it would be a bigger project then I'm really up for/have the skills for. I ended up getting the confit kit pan from koerner, and I really have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised. One thing I wasn't sure about was the clips. In some of the videos showing the pan being used, it shows the two pieces of the pan being held together with screws, and in other videos, it shows it help together by those binder clips. Thankfully, the pan does come with screws rather then those clips, overall the piece feels very sturdy, and for the price, I'd definitely recommend it. Attached are a few pictures (welcome to my kitchen btw, its a bit tight in here).

 

As for the process, I had a number of questions. In chocolates and confections (page 72 of the 2nd edition), Greweling says in step three that to precoat the centers, a thin precoating of gum or starch solution is used. Is there any specifics as to what these are how they are made? In step six, he mentions polishing after smoothing, and thats "usually a gum arabic product." So are these things that are normally just purchased, or can I make it? Then in an article by Robert Boutin (I found a few .pdf's on panning while google searching) He mentions "sealing or gumming syrups (i.e., 25%– 40% gum arabic or maltodextrins in water)" so perhaps thats my answer to the above question. Anywho, I've just been gathering up tidbits here and there, its all pretty interesting. I also have a bottle of confectioners glaze coming in the mail. Any tips or suggestions are more then welcome, thank you!

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Nice!  I can't wait to see what you make.

 

I haven't gotten very far with panning, only did a few batches.  One of them turned out pretty well, but mostly by accident, and I just coated them with cocoa instead of making them shiny.  For me, chocolate covered nuts just did not sell, I'm not sure if they weren't sexy enough or what.  I didn't really mind eating them all, but I haven't made any in a while.

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Minas - you can make the sealing gum syrup yourself - the polish I'd probably buy.

 

Gum syrup would be 50 grams of gum arabic in 100 grams of warm water - whisking furiously the whole time. The thermomix does a lovely job of this.

 

Can you show us a picture of the attachment piece on this pan - I'm curious how it differs from the others I've seen?

 

What's the diameter of that pan?


Edited by Kerry Beal (log)

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Hi Minas,

 

You only need to seal nuts prior to panning if you are going to use dark chocolate.  You will get "fat migration" (looks pretty much like fat bloom) on any nut product that is enrobed or panned in dark chocolate.  I get this frequently with dark hedge hogs and dark Italian Nougat--regardless of my temper and storage conditions.

 

If you pan with milk chocolate you won't get fat migration with nuts.  I just start off the panning with nuts, toss in some milk choc, toss in a scoop of cocoa pwdr to make it "stick", then pan with only milk chocolate..  I do about 10 kgs of choc panned hazelnuts a month and have neve had problems with fat migration--even when I get product returned to me several months past the expiry date.

 

Hope this helps

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Kerry, heres a picture of the backside of the pan. Like the D&R pan the pastrygirl posted, the cylindrical piece spins freely. Also, from rim to rim, the pan is just under 16 inches.

 

And Edward, that is very helpful, I didnt know that presealing wasn't necessary with about the milk and white chocolate, thanks for that! Something I had a question about was the final steps for polishing and glazing. In step 8 in the info in Chocolates and Confections, Grewelings says that you polish with a gum arabic product. Kerry, you said you'd probably buy this one rather then make it, do you have any recommendations on this? And after you polish, the next step is glazing, which he says is usually a shellac based product. This final glaze is the same as confectionery glaze, correct? What would be the result if the items did not have a gum arabic polish, but were instead smoothed then glazed? I'm starting to see how many different ways one can produce these items, its all pretty interesting.

 

Also, as for the precoat you mentioned of milk chocolate and cocoa powder, after you add the milk chocolate and a scoop of cocoa powder, do you then stop the machine, remove the centers, clean the pan, the proceed with building up the centers? Or are you adding just enough cocoa powder to coat them, but not be excessive, then start engrossing with out every stopping the pan?

 

Additionally, instead of using a gum arabic solution or chocolate/cocoa powder to precoat, I can prepare the nuts as in the formula for almond dragees in Chocolates and Confections, right? By boiling a syrup, adding nuts, stirring until it crystallizes, melting sugar to caramelize, cooling, then loading up the pan for a smoother chocolate coating then what I usually get by hand?

 

Hopefully all that makes sense, I'm bubblying over with questions, everything you guys have said has been helpful, I'm stoked to start this!

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I highly recommend pre-coating with caramelized sugar if only for the extra crunch and flavor it adds. 

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Ok cool, thanks for that pastrygirl. Something I was thinking about, has anyone ever panned peppermint fondants? Before I got the pan, this is something I wanted to try. I was thinking depositing the fondants into small drops, maybe a 1/4 inch in diameter, or possibly finding a mold that is small enough, but then panning the peppermint fondants to make something akin to junior mints. It was just an idea I had, when I get more time ill try it out. Thanks for all the help everyone.

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Something I was thinking about, has anyone ever panned peppermint fondants? Before I got the pan, this is something I wanted to try. I was thinking depositing the fondants into small drops, maybe a 1/4 inch in diameter, or possibly finding a mold that is small enough, but then panning the peppermint fondants to make something akin to junior mints. It was just an idea I had, when I get more time ill try it out. Thanks for all the help everyone.

I have no experience at all with panning but I like that idea. I look forward to seeing how it works out.

 

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I think I've seen discussion about panning fondant covered cherries - so I suspect that the peppermint version would be a piece of cake.

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I'm stoked to start this!

 

If all the rest of your work is any indication, I'm sure you will produce some amazing things pretty darned soon ;) Looking forward to seeing it!

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Thank you so much Chris, I really appreciate that!

Just a quick question, dried fruit items like raisins, cherries, cranberries, etc, do they need a precoat of gum? I think those items normally have an oil applied to the exterior, so wouldn't that prevent the chocolate from adhearing in some spots in the pan? Im planning doing some raisins tomorrow, I just want to have all my ducks in a row :-).

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Thank you so much Chris, I really appreciate that!

Just a quick question, dried fruit items like raisins, cherries, cranberries, etc, do they need a precoat of gum? I think those items normally have an oil applied to the exterior, so wouldn't that prevent the chocolate from adhearing in some spots in the pan? Im planning doing some raisins tomorrow, I just want to have all my ducks in a row :-).

 

No, they don't need a precoat. They do tend to stick together, so you have to keep them separated. Jean Marie had us roll some fruits into balls so they coat more evenly. Have fun!

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And rolling fruit in a ball is a colossal PIA as Rodney and I found recently!  I have used a maltodextrin solution and some powdered sugar with ground up freeze dried fruit as a pre-coat to build up some roundness before I start adding the chocolate with some really craggy dried fruits. 

 

Today I was panning almonds - my 5 quart kitchen aid is in the shop and so I was using my 6 quart. I should know better than to turn my back on that one - the pan works its way out of the attachment on that mixer and it hit the ground revolving - showering the floor with almonds.

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So heres the results thus far. The first picture is my first attempt, they are almonds panned with milk chocolate. It seemed to work fine, I saw preventing doubles is a pain haha, but for the shape of the almond, Im surprised how round they came out. So they are just coated with confectioners sugar and cocoa power.

 

Next was what I started yesterday, chocolate panned raisins. This was a larger batch then the almonds, so it seemed to tumble better in the pan. I know they are not perfect, but not too shabby for a second shot at it. After they were built up, I tried to glaze them...I think it worked, not too terribly pleased with the result, but ok for doing it the first time.

 

Kerry, I was wondering if you could help me. The polish you have on your panned malted milk balls looks so perfect, how did you do that? Do you mind if I ask specifically what products your using for the polish and glaze? What I used was confectioners glaze from CK, the ingredients say its just a food grade lacquer. Am I using the right product? From what is stated in Chocolates and Confections as well as some videos I saw on youtube discussing commercial panning, you normally use a gum arabic product to polish (creating the actual shine), and a shellac based product to glaze and protect that shine (such as the confectioners glaze I have). I really have a feeling I did this incorrectly, because I was using the confectioners glaze to create the shine, but I dont really have a lead on another product. There was a company I did find that manufactured very specific products to polish and glaze dragees, but I don think I can purchase from them. In other reading I saw that carnauba wax and beeswax are used to create a polish (it said both dry crystals and alcohol solutions), so I was thinking of getting some of that just to try.

 

Also, when glazing, how much would you normally use? I did multiple coats with the glaze, I probably used about 3/4 of an ounce. I almost feel like I put too much, but really am not sure. I could feel that way because the stuff reeks like crazy. Anywho, thanks for all the help everyone, its really appreciated!

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So heres the results thus far. The first picture is my first attempt, they are almonds panned with milk chocolate. It seemed to work fine, I saw preventing doubles is a pain haha, but for the shape of the almond, Im surprised how round they came out. So they are just coated with confectioners sugar and cocoa power.

 

Next was what I started yesterday, chocolate panned raisins. This was a larger batch then the almonds, so it seemed to tumble better in the pan. I know they are not perfect, but not too shabby for a second shot at it. After they were built up, I tried to glaze them...I think it worked, not too terribly pleased with the result, but ok for doing it the first time.

 

Kerry, I was wondering if you could help me. The polish you have on your panned malted milk balls looks so perfect, how did you do that? Do you mind if I ask specifically what products your using for the polish and glaze? What I used was confectioners glaze from CK, the ingredients say its just a food grade lacquer. Am I using the right product? From what is stated in Chocolates and Confections as well as some videos I saw on youtube discussing commercial panning, you normally use a gum arabic product to polish (creating the actual shine), and a shellac based product to glaze and protect that shine (such as the confectioners glaze I have). I really have a feeling I did this incorrectly, because I was using the confectioners glaze to create the shine, but I dont really have a lead on another product. There was a company I did find that manufactured very specific products to polish and glaze dragees, but I don think I can purchase from them. In other reading I saw that carnauba wax and beeswax are used to create a polish (it said both dry crystals and alcohol solutions), so I was thinking of getting some of that just to try.

 

Also, when glazing, how much would you normally use? I did multiple coats with the glaze, I probably used about 3/4 of an ounce. I almost feel like I put too much, but really am not sure. I could feel that way because the stuff reeks like crazy. Anywho, thanks for all the help everyone, its really appreciated!

Nice job filling in those raisins - they are one of the most difficult for sure.

 

Those malt balls were looking pretty crappy a couple of weeks ago - I'd tried to polish them too early and added too much polish too soon. Rodney (Alleguede) took them home and repolished them for me. I believe he told me that he changed the amounts he added - but standard for the polish is to use 0.3% of the weight of the items for the first polish, then 0.2%, then 0.1%.  If they start to shine nicely anywhere along the line - don't bother to add more. If they don't shine - continue adding 0.1% aliquots until they do. Once polished - add 0.2% shellac.

 

I've used Capol 127 and 155 as polish and shellac. I've also been using a polish and shellac recently introduced by Centerchem. 

 

So it sounds like you are using just lacquer but not polish.

 

Beeswax and carnauba are used to polish sugar finishes rather than chocolate.

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Hey Kerry. Thanks for the response, and the info on the amounts to add is helpful. Your absolutely right, I am just using lacquer. Its sort of funny, the confectioners glaze was very easy to locate, however the polish for chocolate dragees is not as easy. I saw the products from Capol, so I think I'll fill out the info they want before I can buy. Another company was Tic Gums, and they will mail samples, so I think I'll pursue that as well. Thanks also for telling me that the waxes are for sugar panning, I read about waxes being used that in this link:

 

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrTcdCLUn5VOX4AImQnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEzMTNzdmg4BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDRkZHRUMwXzEEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1434370828/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fnca.files.cms-plus.com%2fResidentCourse%2fWeek2%2fResCourseWk2ArticlesPan5Boutin04.pdf/RK=0/RS=HISFHJEYr1bPwtuquTRF5GcIWDU-

 

I just didnt read that when waxes are mentioned, it was talking about sugar panning and not chocolate, my bad!

 

And just to put this out there, it seems that when I've read about soft and hard sugar panning, they syrup is applied at a temp of around 140f (ish). This is just something I was thinking about, does anyone know how youd get a hard sugar shell on chocolate, as with m&ms? The only reason I was thinking about this was because if it was straight forward in any way, you could easily use the callets from calebaut for centers, then build up a sugar shell around those.

 

Also Kerry, the package from the fair that had all the different colored pieces, were those dyed white chocolate?

 

Anywho, I dont mean to keep asking questions everyone has been more then enough help.

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When Rodney and I were playing with sugar panning over chocolate we used dextrose - fast and doesn't require warm syrup. You could probably try with a cool sugar syrup and sucrose. 

 

The white chocolate was dyed with IBC Power Flowers - lovely way to get intense colours - there is a palette of colours that you follow which allows you to get consistent colour batch to batch.

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