Cremeux: Sugar addition curiosity

[gfron1]

When I make cremieuxs, you heat cream/milk add it to whisked yolk and sugar. Sometimes I do the sugar in with the cream/milk and never see a difference in structure, mouthfeel or taste. Is there a reason given in culinary school for doing it the traditional way?

[pastrygirl]

So basic creme anglaise method?  My theory is that the sugar in the eggs helps the eggs not scramble.  I don't know if it is because of chemistry or heat capacity, but I have made hundreds of gallons of ice cream by boiling cream/milk, dumping it all into my yolks/sugar, whisking well, then returning to the pan and cooking until thickened.  The ONLY time I have  scrambled the eggs was when I made a caramel ice cream where all the sugar was caramelized then dissolved in the liquid and the yolks were naked.  That is when you have to temper in your hot stuff extra carefully.  Some people may say that the sugar needs to be dissolved in the milk first, I disagree, sugar is not that hard to dissolve!

[Bojana]

I have just made cremeux in sous vide bags, basically mixing all the stuff together and cooking at 82C for an hour. Then added some gelatin and emulsified butter in it. This was fruit juice based cremeux, works like a charm, super smooth texture.

[jmacnaughtan]

I always do half and half- half the sugar will help stabilize the yolk (probably) and the other half helps stop milk from sticking and scorching on the bottom of the pan.  

 

If you're using starch in your crémeux, then it's a good idea to mix it with sugar, add a little cold liquid, then add the egg yolks.  It helps avoid lumps.

[gfron1]

So basically what I'm hearing from you all is "cuz that's what I was told to do."  

 

I never have curdle and have done it both ways. McGee, get over here and give me some science!

[Edward J]

At one of the hotels I worked at, I made 2 liters of pastry cream every day...

 

If I added sugar to the yolks and starch, boiled my milk to the point that it was just beginning to crawl up the sides of the pot, and added, I would have to return the mix back to the pot, and stir over heat for a few minutes.

 

If I added the sugar to the milk, when I added the milk to the yolks and starch, it would thicken up almost immediately, and all I would do was stretch a piece of cling film over the filled  bowl.  After 5-7 minutes I could remove the film and the cream was perfectly set--no going back to the stove. 

 

We all know if we dump 300 gr of sugar into 2 liters of milk, the milk level in the pot doesn't rise much. 

 

My theory is that the sugar acts as a "heat sink" and gets/keeps the milk hotter than it would be without sugar.

 

This would also explain pastry girls observation that anglaise would only curdle for her if she boiled the milk with sugar.

 

But Harold Mcgee I ain't.....

[pastrygirl]

Adding the sugar to the milk will definitely raise the boiling temp, apparently enough to make a difference.  Edward, are you familiar with Franciso Migoya's perfect pastry cream?  It sounds like your hotel recipe, relying on the milk being hot enough to activate the thickeners without being returned to the heat.  Sadly, I had inconsistent results trying to follow Migoya.  User error, I am sure.

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/109770117/Perfect-Pastry-Cream

Edited April 23, 2015 by pastrygirl (log)

[pastrygirl]

Rob, do you also do a dry caramel?  I think anglaise is similar to that.  I do a wet caramel even though it takes longer so I don't have to babysit it and I put sugar in the yolks so i don't have to be careful tempering it.  You may prefer being more direct with caramel and not waiting for water to boil off and like saving the step of not returning the custard to the pan (which I would support if I could get it to work for me).  Do you prefer to multitask, or do you try to focus on one thing at a time?

[gfron1]

I am in constant multtask, but with cremieux and caramel, I stand dutifully watching and stirring.

[teonzo]

(sorry but my memories about physics terms in English are a bit nebulous)

 

If you add the sugar to the milk and not to the eggs, then you have a bigger mass at high temp and a smaller mass at room temp. This means that the final temp when you mix both components will be higher, so you may risk to scramble the eggs.

Just a basic example. Suppose the recipe calls 200 g yolks, 200 g sugar, 40 g starch, 1000 g milk (just random numbers). First case: you add the sugar to the yolks, so you have 440 g at room temp (say 20°C) and 1000 g at boiling temp (100°C); when you mix them you get a final temp of (440*20 + 1000*100) / (440 + 1000) = 75.5°C (this is just an approximation). Second case: you add the sugar to the milk, so you have 240 g at room temp (say 20°C) and 1200 g at boiling temp (let's say 101°C due to the added sugar); when you mix them you get a final temp of (240*20 + 1200*101) / (440 + 1000) = 87.5°C (this is just an approximation). The higher the final temperature, the more risks to scramble the eggs, you can't be sure you will or will not scramble them, it depends on if and how you mix the yolks while pouring the milk, on the pouring speed, on the termal mass of the bowl and other factors.

It's mainly a matter of the balance of your recipe (the ratio between room-temp mass and hot mass), room temp and yolk temp (you can start from fridge-cold eggs).

 

 

 

Teo

[Edward J]

I am in constant multtask, but with cremieux and caramel, I stand dutifully watching and stirring.

 

Actually with caramel, (Grewling's recipie) I scale the ingredients in a large pot, put it on the burner, and walk away.  I do the recipie 2-5 times per week, and I confidently walk away--sometimes even going on 45min deliveries with no ill effects to my caramel.

 

I have to add, my burner is a very old Commercial "WELLS" two burner electric solid  cast iron style cooktop. (I picked it up at an auction a few years ago)  The pot I'm using is a generic s/s pot with a s/s sandwich bottom.  If I set the burner to "3 1/2" I can leave the caramel to cook--unattended, for up to 2 1/2 hours.  No stirring is needed, the milk will foam up to the rim, but will not spill over, it will not scorch or burn either.

 

That being said, the last 20 minutes are very crucial, and I need to hover over the pot at least once every 5 minutes.  I can accelerate this by cranking up the heat to "10" and stir constantly for 5 minutes until I reach my temperature of 110 C.