Infusing Milk or Cream with Mushroom Flavor

[Shel_B]

We have some potlucks coming up in the next couple of months, and the Condensed Cream of Mushroom Soup that we prefer is not available, so I decided to make my own.  One idea that I want to play with is infusing the milk or cream with mushroom flavor from dried mushrooms.  Might that work by simply heating the dairy and adding dried mushroom pieces and letting them steep?  Is there more to it than that?  And just to be clear, the infusion would only be one step in the preparation ... Thanks!

[btbyrd]

That would work. It is common in Asian cuisines to use the steeping liquid from rehydrating dried mushrooms to make stock. It's quite flavorful.

[FeChef]

I would grind the dried mushrooms into a powder and let it steep then strain it. You will get the mosr flavor out of them and faster aswell.

[Shel_B]

I would grind the dried mushrooms into a powder and let it steep then strain it. You will get the mosr flavor out of them and faster aswell.

 

Have you actually done that?

[liuzhou]

What kind of mushrooms are we talking about here?

[Deryn]

Dry your own mushrooms first so you can a) remove the stems (if they are shitakis or other tough stemmed varieties) and b) be sure they are clean.

 

If you can't do that (dry your own), then I think it is wise to first soak your mushrooms in water and discard that first 'bath' before trying to steep in cream/milk.

 

If you don't want to do that make sure you get really good quality (and as freshly dried as possible), preferably just porchini, mushrooms to work with. The water from some kinds of mushrooms I have found to be bitter and/or more earthy tasting than others and you may not find that as pleasant in a creamed soup as one might in a non-cream soup that you can doctor with sherry.

 

FeChef's idea makes sense in that the smaller you chop up the pieces, the more surface area that can release flavour. I have used both whole and powdered dried mushrooms to make mushroom soup - and the powdered ones were definitely more flavourful.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Deryn (log)

[Shel_B]

What kind of mushrooms are we talking about here?

 

Pleased explain what difference it makes.  I have several types - porcini, shiitake, candy cap, morel, and one other.  I won't be using the candy cap, most likely a porcini-shitake blend.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Shel_B (log)

[liuzhou]

Pleased explain what difference it makes.  I have several types - porcini, shiitake, candy cap, morel, and one other.  I won't be using the candy cap, most likely a porcini-shitake blend.

 

Some varieties of mushroom, when dried, do not powder well. In some cases a duxelles type preparation may work better.

[Deryn]

I did a very quick google and found this recipe for a 'creamy wild mushroom soup'. No recommendation (I haven't tried it) and it doesn't do the 'milk/cream infusion' thing you said you wanted to do (they merely soak in a broth and port mix), but it sounds like a good way to use dried mushrooms in a 'combo' (dried and fresh) mushroom soup. I have made similar soups - but I don't use recipes. I could not immediately find any recipe that uses an infusion of wild mushrooms in milk/cream and only wild mushrooms.

 

http://homecooking.about.com/od/soups/r/blss15.htm

 

You stated this step was but one of many in your 'recipe' - and didn't say if you intended to actually include the wild mushrooms in the end product (other than the infusion, one guesses) nor whether you intend to use fresh mushrooms as well. I think more information from you (since you indicated you had a particular use for the results of your experiment) would have helped, Shel. In addition, I also suggest that you take a few of the dried mushrooms you say you have already and try the infusion 'experiment'. It should only take an hour or so.

 

I still will tell you that if you are using dried shitakes, you should remove the stems (though the above recipe does not explicitly say to do that), especially if you are not going to grind them up - they are tough when dried and will never hydrate well. When I dry shitakis, I remove the stems before drying for the above reason and in fact, I usually remove them even if the shitakis are fresh.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Deryn (log)

[FeChef]

Have you actually done that?

Yes i have. And after you strain all the gritty powder, put the liquid back into the pot and simmer it to evaporate most of the water so you dont dilute your cream sauce.

[Shel_B]

Yes i have. And after you strain all the gritty powder, put the liquid back into the pot and simmer it to evaporate most of the water so you dont dilute your cream sauce.

 

I am not making a cream sauce.  The infusion I want to make will be done in milk or cream, so there is no water involved.

[Shel_B]

Some varieties of mushroom, when dried, do not powder well. In some cases a duxelles type preparation may work better.

 

Thanks for explaining that.  The original idea was to infuse the dairy with pieces of dried mushroom, and at this point that's still the plan.

[huiray]

I am not making a cream sauce.  The infusion I want to make will be done in milk or cream, so there is no water involved.

 

"no water involved."

 

Uhh, milk is around 80% water (or thereabouts) and cream is usually more than 50% water.

[Shel_B]

I did a very quick google and found this recipe for a 'creamy wild mushroom soup'. No recommendation (I haven't tried it) and it doesn't do the 'milk/cream infusion' thing you said you wanted to do (they merely soak in a broth and port mix), but it sounds like a good way to use dried mushrooms in a 'combo' (dried and fresh) mushroom soup. I have made similar soups - but I don't use recipes. I could not immediately find any recipe that uses an infusion of wild mushrooms in milk/cream and only wild mushrooms.

 

http://homecooking.about.com/od/soups/r/blss15.htm

 

You stated this step was but one of many in your 'recipe' - and didn't say if you intended to actually include the wild mushrooms in the end product (other than the infusion, one guesses) nor whether you intend to use fresh mushrooms as well. I think more information from you (since you indicated you had a particular use for the results of your experiment) would have helped, Shel. In addition, I also suggest that you take a few of the dried mushrooms you say you have already and try the infusion 'experiment'. It should only take an hour or so.

 

I still will tell you that if you are using dried shitakes, you should remove the stems (though the above recipe does not explicitly say to do that), especially if you are not going to grind them up - they are tough when dried and will never hydrate well. When I dry shitakis, I remove the stems before drying for the above reason and in fact, I usually remove them even if the shitakis are fresh.

 

Well, thanks for Googling around.  I am not making a soup, rather, an ingredient that will replace an ingredient I can't get right now.

 

I have no recipe just yet, only an idea, but I do want to try the dairy infusion as I think it will add to what I want to do.  When I develop the recipe, and finalize the idea, I'll post it on eG.

 

I found a couple of recipes that infuse dairy with mushroom pieces, so, at this point, I'm convinced it's a workable idea.  In fact, there was a discussion here that I'd completely forgotten about, although it's for a dessert not a soup (which is not quite what I want to make in any case), as it's the infusion process that I am interested in at the moment.  I'd be happy to send you the recipes I have in which the cream is infused with mushroom flavor.

 

You said that I stated this step was but one of many in my 'recipe' - I didn't.  What I said was that "the infusion would only be one step in the preparation ..."  Since there's no recipe just yet, I can't say how many steps there may be, although the idea is taking shape.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Shel_B (log)

[FeChef]

I am not making a cream sauce.  The infusion I want to make will be done in milk or cream, so there is no water involved.

What does this have to do with my advice? It doesnt matter what your making. My point is valid. You need some form of liquid to extract as much flavor out of the mushrooms. Water is a good choice because it will not leave any taste behind when it evaporates.

[Shel_B]

What does this have to do with my advice? It doesnt matter what your making. My point is valid. You need some form of liquid to extract as much flavor out of the mushrooms. Water is a good choice because it will not leave any taste behind when it evaporates.

 

Let's see if I understand you.  I want to infuse into milk or cream, and you're suggesting water ... is that correct?  I don't necessarily want the dairy to evaporate, but if it does to some degree, it's the mushroom infused dairy taste that I want.  Water will dilute the flavor of the dairy, yes?

 

In the FWIW Dep't, some artisan cheeses are infused with mushrooms ... We can also add flavor in a more subtle way by infusing the milk with dried mushrooms,

Edited February 18, 2015 by Shel_B (log)

[FeChef]

I am not understanding your issue with using water to extract the dried mushrooms flavor. If you want to use milk or what ever then do so. I am just suggesting using water and letting the water evaporate as much as possible to concentrate the flavor. If you want to use milk, to extract the flavor you risk burning it and altering the taste and in my opinion, milk will not do as good of a job at extracting compared to water. Anyway, im done. Good luck.

[Deryn]

Shel - You said, in your initial post, that your preferred cream of mushroom soup was not available so you decided to make your own. How were we supposed to interpret that? Now you say you are not interested in making soup or even an imitation of a cream of mushroom soup base I gather. Sigh. My posts were premised on you wanting to use a milk or cream infusion as the basis of a soup (or a condensed version of same). Too cryptic!

Edited February 18, 2015 by Deryn (log)

[btbyrd]

On a related note, the first ingredient in Shel's preferred brand of cream of mushroom soup is water. This is followed by mushrooms, mushroom flavor base, and mushroom concentrate.

[Shel_B]

Shel - You said, in your initial post, that your preferred cream of mushroom soup was not available so you decided to make your own. How were we supposed to interpret that? Now you say you are not interested in making soup or even an imitation of a cream of mushroom soup base I gather. Sigh. My posts were premised on you wanting to use a milk or cream infusion as the basis of a soup (or a condensed version of same). Too cryptic!

 

If you look again, you'll see that the ingredient is Condensed cream of mushroom soup, which is an ingredient that we use in casseroles.  Sorry if I'm too cryptic for you.

[Tri2Cook]

If you look again, you'll see that the ingredient is Condensed cream of mushroom soup, which is an ingredient that we use in casseroles.  Sorry if I'm too cryptic for you.

You asked about making your own substitute for condensed cream of mushroom soup. We understand that you're not making soup, that you're shooting for maximizing mushroom flavor in a milk/cream base to stand in for the condensed cream of mushroom soup in a recipe you're tinkering with. People with experience are telling you ways to do that and, as usual, you're spending your time looking for reasons to shoot the suggestions down or making snippy remarks to those who don't say what you want to hear. Maybe try a suggestion or two before fighting against them (unless you already know what you're going to do... in which case, why ask?) and you might be surprised at how helpful people can be.

 

[Deryn]

Thanks, Tri2Cook. You expressed what I meant better than I could.

 

And yes, I knew Shel was not intending to just make soup - but to make an ingredient as a stand in for soup. However, since we have absolutely no idea what the end product is intended to be, we have no idea at all how thick he requires the infusion to be.

 

I have made many casseroles where I use condensed soups without adding any water - to add pre-thickened flavoured 'body' to the final dish when more or no extra liquid was needed. I have also used condensed soups with milk or water added (in other words, reconstituted when added) as the flavoured liquids in a dish. 

 

He asked for ideas for 'infusing' mushroom flavour (using unspecified kinds of dried mushrooms in milk or cream) and didn't want to hear that water might even be a possibility, even for one soaking (which leads one to imagine that since water is thinner than milk which is thinner than cream - and knowing too that Shel's inclination is most often to use the thinnest milk product he can find - information learned from many other threads he has started) that he does not require the infusion to be thick at all, but not quite water thin either. So my addled ancient female brain said ... so he wants something more the consistency of the soup he mentioned but reconstituted - at least to start (and may then either boil that down or add a thickener or not - who knows).

 

Infusion usually also implies to me that whatever the solid infusing flavour agent in it will be removed from the final infusion - strained out - simply leaving flavour without solids. But, his preferred soup includes solids. Stupid me tried to figure out then whether he wanted to infuse and leave the dried mushrooms in the final dish, or infuse and remove the first dried mushrooms and then add back some more dried or fresh mushrooms or ?

 

Yep, I went way too far in trying to second guess the intended purpose in order to maybe provide another way the final product (which I did not know) might be achieved. Heck, maybe if he had actually had the preferred soup he might have strained the solids out of it and just used the base as a (thick or thin?) flavouring agent - so ... oh dear, Deryn - engage brain again ... (still trying to 'help' for who knows what reason) ... now I don't know what to do except to go back to suggesting that he might be able to use another 'creamed wild mushroom soup recipe' as a basis for proceeding with his final dish, whatever that was. Apparently that was absolutely the wrong way to proceed - but one cannot know unless one suggests it and gets told one is utterly wrong for even going to the trouble to try to help in that direction.

 

Additionally, as others have said or intimated, the thinner the liquid the infusion is going into, usually the stronger the flavour that will be acquired. I agree though there was absolutely no statement made by Shel about how 'strong' a flavour he wanted from the resulting infusion - and he didn't want to use water. But, presuming he wants SOME flavour in his infusion, the suggestions began to come that the mushrooms be cut up (or even powdered) - and I made the added suggestion that IF the mushrooms were shitakis, that the stems should be removed - sorry ... extraneous, unwanted info (forget I said that).

 

Boy, I get myself into a mess when I try to guess at what someone I don't know, who has a totally different experience base to rely on, who may even speak another language and certainly has a different thought process and writing style actually MEANS when he asks a question seemingly as simple as how do I infuse dried mushroom flavour into milk or cream - but complicates it with partial information about the ultimate purpose for that infusion.

 

I still have absolutely no idea of the final purpose of the concoction he is trying to make. Sorry - typical old lady circular thinking there - but since I am not what I would call a novice cook (and therefore may have several ways to approach a culinary problem), strangely enough I need either more or less information in order to try to help him come up with the best way to approach this specific problem.

 

Had a simple - how do I infuse dried mushroom flavour into milk or cream? - question been the only thing in the initial post, I would have simply answered - yes, just heat the 'dairy' and steep any dried mushroom in milk or cream. My logic would then have led me to say ... see what you get and then come back with your next question so we can assist with that one. I should have realized this was a culinary game and that it would take a week or month and 4 or 5 threads before we got to know what the end product was going to be. I am slow but I am trainable - starting to get the jist now.

 

So, for me, the whole thing was complicated by the limited information in the statement about 'why' he wanted to do that. And, as I said, either more or less information would have helped. I tried to think further than was required so I apologize. The above however was MY thought process and that is why I called the initial post too cryptic (for me). I just don't have a simple mind. Sorry. All I was doing was trying to help though ... despite my obviously incorrect 'conclusions' based on what I read was the problem to be addressed.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Deryn (log)

[torolover]

I've always wondered, do mushrooms, or other aromatics like garlic, onions, and carrots infuse better with fat, or water? I understand if you boil aromatics in water, lots of the flavor compounds evaporate into the air.  On the other hand if you reduce the liquid, you can make a more concentrated flavor.   

 

If you infuse aromatics with fat, flavor compounds shouldn't evaporate into the air I'm guessing?

Edited February 20, 2015 by torolover (log)

[FeChef]

I've always wondered, do mushrooms, or other aromatics like garlic, onions, and carrots infuse better with fat, or water? I understand if you boil aromatics in water, lots of the flavor compounds evaporate into the air.  On the other hand if you reduce the liquid, you can make a more concentrated flavor.   

 

If you infuse aromatics with fat, flavor compounds shouldn't evaporate into the air I'm guessing?

Problem here is the amount of fat you would need to infuse the flavor and now you have to use all that fat or reduce the amount of the infused flavor. Water is still the better option for flavor.

[Shel_B]

Problem here is the amount of fat you would need to infuse the flavor and now you have to use all that fat or reduce the amount of the infused flavor. Water is still the better option for flavor.

 

It really depends on what you want.  I just finished infusing 10-oz of half-and-half with about 50 grams of dried mushrooms, mixed 20% shiitake and 80% porcini, and, as it is, the mushroom flavor is almost too strong for my intended use.  Considering there will be butter and flour added to thicken the mixture (to make a condensed-type soup), as well as some aromatics and additional fresh mushrooms, it's expected that the infused flavor will be nicely balanced for my purposes. 

 

Here are the shiitake pieces before adding to the porcini pieces:

 

 

And these are the porcini pieces:

 

 

This is the combined pieces in the pot with 10-oz of half-and-half.  Note the color of the dairy:

 

 

I kept the temperature below boiling at all times.  208-degrees is the hottest I allowed the mixture to get:

 

 

This shows the infused half-and-half ready to come off the heat.  You can see it has a nice tan color.  That color equals flavor, IMO:

 

 

Finally, the strained infusion in a bowl, ready to be added to other ingredients to make the condensed soup:

 

Edited February 21, 2015 by Shel_B (log)