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Questions about apple spice bundt cake


cyalexa

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I recently tried a new recipe, http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/apple-spice-bundt-cake-with-rum-glaze-recipe.html  . It was delicious but the prep took me much longer than reported in the recipe. For one thing, other than the ginger, all my spices are whole. I had previously recorded weights per volume for ground cardamon and black pepper but for all the others I ground them individually and weighed the volume used in the recipe so next time I can just weigh all the whole spices then grind them together. I have Hemphill's the spice and herb bible, and while I find it an excellent reference, I have found the weight per volume of several ground spices to be highly inaccurate (at least for the grind in my repurposed coffee grinder). I imagine I would find several conversion charts online but wonder if anyone has one that they have found useful.

 

The batter is extremely thick. Chopped nuts, apples, and crystallized ginger are mixed in after the flour and I found this step difficult. I finally resorted to using a flexible bowl/bench scraper and sort of folded the batter in a big bowl. If care is taken to avoid breaking up the nuts and smashing the apples (both already chopped, btw) is there a reason they shouldn't be added before the flour?

 

Lastly, the instructions call for cooling the cake in the pan 30 minutes before turning it onto a rack. I did it after about 10, as soon as I thought I could do so without burning myself. I have, on occasion, had baked goods stick when cooled in or on their pan. What do the trained and/or more experienced bakers say about this?

 

Thanks,

Cindy

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I wouldn't take any stated prep time for a recipe seriously. Sometimes I think the recipe writer must be fantasizing. Or his prep cook did all the work.

 

I use whole spices also. I don't know of any conversion chart, and I wonder if any chart would be useful given the variability of dried herbs and spices, depending on the batch and their sources. If you're going to use whole spices (I do) it will simply take time to grind, measure, and mix them all.

 

Try folding a thick batter with a silicon spatula. Cut the spatula into the middle of the bowl, then scoop and fold over to the edge of the bowl, while rotating the bowl. As for adding the nuts and apples before the flour--somebody else will have to answer that question.

 

I take cooling times seriously in a recipe. I assume the author wants the cake to set properly before it's turned out. I use nonstick pans for bundt cakes or tube cakes, and I generously grease them with butter anyway. The one time I didn't grease my nonstick pan, the cake stuck. When I grease my nonstick pans, I never have a problem.

Edited by djyee100 (log)
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Always grease or spray the non-stick pans, adding parchment paper as well also helps. Think of the molecules of fat as tiny ball bearings that help the cake move out of the pan -especially if it's a pan with a pattern in it. That fat also helps slightly crisp the outside, giving the cake structure.

 

Personally, I'd add the chunky stuff to the flour so they don't clump later.

 

That said, FN doesn't really test recipes very well, I have had bad luck with many -especially the A.B. ones, oddly enough.

 

If I get recipes online, I look at the Gourmet Magazine archives at Epicurious, Food & Wines, Cook's Illustrated (weight based measurements since 2003), and Martha Stewart for mainstream stuff. I follow a lot of blogs, which can be inspirational, but not necessarily helpful on a daily basis. My faves for home baking include Dorie Greenspan (sometimes uses weight based measurement) and Rose Levy Berenbaum (uses weight based measurement). I'm also pretty sure that I am forgetting someone right now.

 

Overall, I'd look for an easier recipe. Sounds like the one you have makes a really dense, chewy cake -which might be ok, but, I'll bet there's a better one out there.

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I wonder if even the most fervent proponents of weight-based recipes weigh the spices. Except for Modernist Cuisine I don't think I have ever seen a recipe that calls for spices by weight. I stand to be corrected.

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Thanks for the input. My replies are typed within the quote boxes in blue.

 

 

I wouldn't take any stated prep time for a recipe seriously. Sometimes I think the recipe writer must be fantasizing. Or his prep cook did all the work. I agree re. stated prep times, further, I am not particularly fast in the kitchen!

 

I use whole spices also. I don't know of any conversion chart, and I wonder if any chart would be useful given the variability of dried herbs and spices, depending on the batch and their sources. If you're going to use whole spices (I do) it will simply take time to grind, measure, and mix them all. Yep, and it seems like the variability issue would apply to volumetric measurements as well. 

 

Try folding a thick batter with a silicon spatula. Cut the spatula into the middle of the bowl, then scoop and fold over to the edge of the bowl, while rotating the bowl. Thanks, that's more or less what I did using a flexible bench/bowl scraper. A spatula ie. tool with a handle, may have given me more leverage. 

 

I take cooling times seriously in a recipe. I assume the author wants the cake to set properly before it's turned out. I use nonstick pans for bundt cakes or tube cakes, and I generously grease them with butter anyway. The one time I didn't grease my nonstick pan, the cake stuck. When I grease my nonstick pans, I never have a problem. I did butter and flour as per the recipe. I will adhere to stated cooling times in the future.

 

 

Personally, I'd add the chunky stuff to the flour so they don't clump later. I did toss the chopped ginger with a little flour. Next time I will add all the little chunks to the flour and mix it well before adding it to the wet ingredients.   

 

That said, FN doesn't really test recipes very well, I have had bad luck with many -especially the A.B. ones, oddly enough. A number of people, whose advice I trust at http://eat.at/swap praised this recipe. I rarely try a new recipe unless it is recommended or I find lots of good reviews online. 

 

Overall, I'd look for an easier recipe. Sounds like the one you have makes a really dense, chewy cake -which might be ok, but, I'll bet there's a better one out there. The recipe was a hassle but the result was good enough that I will make it again. It will be easier now that I have converted the volume measurements of the spices to weights.  I would describe the cake as very moist rather than dense and it wasn't chewy. The flavor was complex and a bit peppery, unlike any other spice cake I've eaten. Thanks for the link to the other recipe. The next apple cake I'm going to try is Dorie Greenspan recipe http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Marie-Helenes-Apple-Cake-361150

 

 

I wonder if even the most fervent proponents of weight-based recipes weigh the spices. Except for Modernist Cuisine I don't think I have ever seen a recipe that calls for spices by weight. I stand to be corrected. I don't mind volumetric measurements for small quantity items like spices, salt, baking powder, etc.  Other than ginger, I only buy my spices as whole seeds as it takes me a while to use up even a small quantity and I want to preserve the quality. Now that I have converted the measurements for this recipe I can merely put the top of my spice grinder on my little scale ( the kind used by black powder enthusiasts and drug dealers!) and, with appropriate use of the tare function, add the spices then grind.  

 

Edited by cyalexa (log)
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This may be because spice flavour and intensity varies so much with age, source, brand etc.  It can be misleading to be too precise in the recipe.

 

Although, saying that, Philippe, Conticini gives gram weights for spices in Sensations.

 

I understand your point although I must say that using volumetric measurements would only add to the imprecision. As I tried to explain above, I converted to weights because I buy whole seeds and now the measuring and grinding will will be quick. 

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That looks like a nice recipe, thanks for referencing it. I think I might halve the recipe and try it out in a loaf pan. I would not add the flour after adding the apples, nuts, and spices, you run the risk of not distributing the flour/leavening evenly in such a thick batter. I would add the apples, etc. with the KitchenAid (or whatever mixer you have). Use the paddle attachment on low speed, just 15-20 seconds will probably do it without further processing the apples, nuts, etc. I do this often with thick batters (like biscotti) where the recipe tells you to add fruit/nuts/etc. by hand in the last step. I think the batter is being worked much less by the mixer than it would be by all the hand mixing needed to incorporate the ingredients.

 

Dorie Greenspan's Marie Helene's Apple Cake is very, very good. It's a simple cake that adds up to much more than the sum of its parts.

 

I wouldn't worry too much (heck, who am I kidding, I wouldn't worry at all) about the precision of the spices. I think this sort of cake is begging you to take liberties with it. Flour, leavening, etc. want precision. But spices? In a spice cake? Follow your heart. The AB recipe has a unique mixture of spices, I particularly like the grains of paradise, but I wouldn't hesitate to add a bit more of one thing or leave something else out entirely. Yes, you'll get something different than what he intended. But as AB himself used to say, I'm okay with that.

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I wouldn't worry too much (heck, who am I kidding, I wouldn't worry at all) about the precision of the spices...

 

The amts of spices in any recipe are intended to get you in the ballpark for the desired flavor profile. You're not going to get a cake that tastes exactly like AB's unless you have access to his spice cabinet. (I assume you don't.) For something like this, my preferred system is to grind an approximate amount of each spice, measure it off, taste the entire spice mixture, then adjust it (if necessary) to my liking. As has been discussed above, dried herbs and spices are variable in flavor and intensity, so trust your taste buds.

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That looks like a nice recipe, thanks for referencing it. I think I might halve the recipe and try it out in a loaf pan. I would not add the flour after adding the apples, nuts, and spices, you run the risk of not distributing the flour/leavening evenly in such a thick batter. I would add the apples, etc. with the KitchenAid (or whatever mixer you have). Use the paddle attachment on low speed, just 15-20 seconds will probably do it without further processing the apples, nuts, etc. I do this often with thick batters (like biscotti) where the recipe tells you to add fruit/nuts/etc. by hand in the last step. I think the batter is being worked much less by the mixer than it would be by all the hand mixing needed to incorporate the ingredients.

 

Dorie Greenspan's Marie Helene's Apple Cake is very, very good. It's a simple cake that adds up to much more than the sum of its parts.

 

I wouldn't worry too much (heck, who am I kidding, I wouldn't worry at all) about the precision of the spices. I think this sort of cake is begging you to take liberties with it. Flour, leavening, etc. want precision. But spices? In a spice cake? Follow your heart. The AB recipe has a unique mixture of spices, I particularly like the grains of paradise, but I wouldn't hesitate to add a bit more of one thing or leave something else out entirely. Yes, you'll get something different than what he intended. But as AB himself used to say, I'm okay with that.

It is a very good cake, I hope you try it and report back especially re. a half recipe in a loaf pan. I had a lot left over so froze a large chunk. Thanks for the info re. the distribution of the leavening agents. I'll keep it in my KA next time. 

 

Re. taking liberties with the spices, I left the rosemary out  - it just didn't sound right. 

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