Making Pappardelle

[scubadoo97]

Looking for a tried and true recipe.

I'm not experienced (done it a few times but not often) with pasta making but would like to make pappardelle with an oxtail ragu with the SV oxtail I have churning away.

In searching recipes I see a wide range of the use of eggs. For ~ 2 cups of flour I've seen recipes that call from 2-6 eggs. That's a big difference which has me asking what is the best ratio from my fellow eG members

I may have use of a manual pasta machine but would also consider rolling it out by hand on a board and cutting it

Any advice would be appreciated

[Shalmanese]

Pappardelle uses the same pasta dough as every other fresh pasta, it's just cut wider. General rule of thumb is 1 egg/2 egg yolks per cup of flour. Add flour until the dough has the texture of the fleshy pad of your thumb.

[Paul Bacino]

I think I use 100 g flour to 1 egg plus one yolk..

[scubadoo97]

I think I use 100 g flour to 1 egg plus one yolk..

Any oil in your recipe?

[Paul Bacino]

No....

Edited December 20, 2014 by Paul Bacino (log)

[scubadoo97]

Thanks

[Twyst]

I use the pasta dough recipe from the french laundry cookbook for almost everything,  its really easy to work with and pretty much foolproof.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Twyst (log)

[scubadoo97]

I use the pasta dough recipe from the french laundry cookbook for almost everything, its really easy to work with and pretty much foolproof.

Care to share the recipe?

[JohnT]

I have not made fresh pasta for a number of years, but used to use a simple recipe from an old Italian friend. She used to make fresh pasta for the family two or three times a week. Her recipe was simple but I had to spend a few sessions with her to figure out the quantities - she just took flour out the packet that looked about the amount she needed and added egg yolks until it felt right to her. So, after she scooped out a quantity of flour, I weighed it and then when she had thrown in the egg yolks, I was counting. The results were:

To 500g flour (I use our cake flour)

Add 10 to 12 egg yolks

No water

No salt

No EVOO

If it is too dense, add extra yolk or, if too soft, add a bit more flour. I used a small Atlas pasta machine for the rolling (have it stored at the moment). She claimed that adding water was a big no-no, as was adding salt or EVOO. She claimed that there was enough salt absorbed into the pasta when it was boiled in salted water and EVOO prevented the cooked pasta from absorbing the sauce flavours. And she would admonish anybody who put a dash of oil into the boiling pasta water! The only time I use EVOO with pasta is if I need to use it for a cold pasta salad.

The results were rich and tasty, something not found in commercial pastas these days. The pasta was then hand cut to suit her sauce. She used to freeze the egg whites and make large batches of meringue which she sold in the neighbourhood.

So, it made no difference what pasta shape or ribbon she was making, it was always the same recipe. I have made this many times and it is really good. For the life of me, I cannot recall what region she came from as it always appeared to me that every Italian mama has her own recipe that was passed down through the years and was always considered "the only way" to make fresh pasta.

[Anna N]

I know absolutely nothing about making pasta but I am astounded by the number of egg yolks called for by both Keller and John T. I have watched various people make pasta on the TV and do not recall ever seeing any of them use this many eggs! I do hope Franci drops in here and tells us how she makes pasta. Please don't think I am questioning either Keller or John T. I am just puzzled.

[JohnT]

I did a bit of a Google search and found the Keller recipe (thanks Anna for pointing me in the right direction) - he uses 6 yolks and 1 whole egg plus some milk and EVOO in his recipe with about 250g flour. I have never tried his recipe and it may be quite good. The recipe I mentioned in my previous post above, uses 10 to 12 yolks only, to 500g flour

Look at Paul Bacino's recipe above - 1 whole egg and 1 yolk per 100g flour - also a lot of egg. I also Googled some other recipes and found Giorgio Locatelli's recipe which has 3 large eggs plus 2 to 3 extra large egg yolks per 500g flour. Then I found Jamie Oliver's recipe from his Italian mentor, Gennaro, and he uses 12 egg yolks with about 475g flour.

So, my conclusion is that the egg contributes to making a fine pasta dough and using more yolk and less whites makes for a richer dough. In my younger days all a person could buy was commercial pasta made from egg yolk and flour - a rich flavoured pasta. Now all you can buy is bland pasta made with water and flour! And the manufacturers have the marketing gaul to claim "made in the traditional Italian way".

And to the OP, use a hand pasta machine - hand rolling pasta dough with a pin is not easy!

[Anna N]

Thanks John T. I am glad I admitted that I knew absolutely nothing about making pasta! Whenever I see a recipe that calls for a dozen eggs my stomach drops into my boots. But that's because I am old enough to remember when eggs were an extremely precious commodity and I can't get it into my head that I can buy them now for a little more than three dollars. I guess it is that which is influencing my rationale about these pasta recipes.

[gfweb]

I too know nothing about making pasta.

 

Actually less than nothing

 

Basic questions that pasta recipes online don't address...

 

How much do you knead the stuff before putting it in the pasta machine?  Does it affect texture?

 

How many passes at each roller setting?

 

Does it matter how long it sits before cooking?

 

What else would a novice need to know?

[Okanagancook]

I recently purchased Flour + Water by Thomas McNaughton and have found it to be very informative.  I have made quite a bit of pasta using various recipes such as TK's and Mario's.  TK's is very tender pasta due to the number of egg yolks in it.  Mario's is more along the line of 1 egg to each cup of flour, etc.  Other variations I have tried is to add a small amount of semolina flour to a Mario-type dough for more texture.  However, Flour + Water has explained pasta well:

 

They made two kinds of pasta:  00 Flour & eggs and durum semolina flour + water.  The egg dough is for all pasta other than extruded which uses semolina + water.

The egg dough has two variations:  

 

1. 00 flour, salt, whole eggs, egg yolks and olive oil for stuffed pastas.  The egg white provides elasticity and durability for the stretching, filling and twisting involved in stuffed pastas.

 

2.  00 flour, salt, egg yolks and olive oil for all other non extruded pastas.  The egg yolks add flavour, moisture and fat.

 

They give two recipes for semolina pasta:  one that you can use for hand rolled pastas such as orecchiette and the other for extruder machines.  The hand rolled pasta is 1/2 00 flour and 1/2 semolina flour plus water.  The extruder dough is just semolina flour and water.  The semolina flour results in a much denser dough requiring more cooking.

 

Kneading egg dough is recommended for 10 to 15 minutes....virtually impossible to over knead.  But don't let it dry out on the work surface either.  They also provide detailed instruction for using a pasta roller and how to roll out the dough properly.  All very different from what I had been doing.

 

Interesting links:

http://www.eater.com/2014/9/29/6850747/sf-flour-water-pasta-recipe-book-Thomas-McNoughton

http://blog.williams-sonoma.com/qa-with-chef-thomas-mcnaughton/

[gfweb]

Great links!

 

I've ordered the book which looks great too.

Thanks, O!

[Anna N]

Thanks, Okanagancook,

I have been toying with the idea of adding "learning to make pasta" to my list of things I'd like to accomplish. The links you provided are very useful. Thank you.

[Okanagancook]

Glad you like the book. My DH has his mitts on it now reading away. I love his stories of working in the Italian Pasta Lab. Making home made pasta is a lot of fun because it usually results in a great product and guests just love the stuff. It takes a few tries to get the knack of mixing in the eggs. I put the flour on the counter then I reserve around 1/3 cup to the side then make the well and mix in the egg (there are some great videos of this on UTube...these really helped me with technique...I will try and find a good one to post.) If I need more flour it is there...sometimes the dough is too dry to get into a dough ball to knead. In the book, he tells you to spray the dough with water if it is too dry. Practice is what is needed.

I like the hand crank pasta rollers. Get a good quality one. I bought an attachment to make cavatelli and it works well...creativecookware have a good selection of machines. I also have a noisy version...the attachments for the Kitchen Aid but they are quite expensive and I do not get the same handmade feeling when using it compared to hand cranking a machine.

[Franci]

I know absolutely nothing about making pasta but I am astounded by the number of egg yolks called for by both Keller and John T. I have watched various people make pasta on the TV and do not recall ever seeing any of them use this many eggs! I do hope Franci drops in here and tells us how she makes pasta. Please don't think I am questioning either Keller or John T. I am just puzzled.

There are two regions in Italy which are very big on egg pasta: Piedmont and Emilia Romagna. In Piedmont tajarin, very fine taglierini, are made exclusively with egg yolks. The dough is much silkier and you can roll it thinner, tastier. I went to read suggestions on my Italian forum: some people use just yolks, other 2 whole eggs and how many yolks needed for a kilo flour.

I'm easy: i open my eggs in the mixer bowl, weight and add about the double in weight as flour. So I just follow the rule of about 50% hydratation, little more hydrated for filled pasta, a little drier for tagliatelle.

But I've heard of 40 yolks to a kg flour to be really normal.

Sometimes I use a mix of durum flour but it's absolutely not traditional.

[Franci]

sometimes the dough is too dry to get into a dough ball to knead. In the book, he tells you to spray the dough with water if it is too dry.

To a good "rezdora", sfoglina, that is a No no, only and always just eggs...but in Liguria, just because they are known to be stingy, they use a combination of eggs and water.

[Franci]

Also, to be honest, for my taste I'd go with rigatoni and oxtail. Some people would tonnarelli and I can see it.

[Franci]

I too know nothing about making pasta.

 

Actually less than nothing

 

Basic questions that pasta recipes online don't address...

 

How much do you knead the stuff before putting it in the pasta machine?  Does it affect texture?

 

How many passes at each roller setting?

 

Does it matter how long it sits before cooking?

 

What else would a novice need to know?

 

Yesterday, I was writing on the IPad, not very comfortable. All these questions and reading what Okanagancook was writing made me think I should start a real foodblog on pasta...not saying that the book mentioned is bad and I should read it before I can say anything. But I think there is so much confusion on pasta. And I'm not really an expert on the subject but some things are very clear in my mind: what kind of flours, eggs, what kind of pasta is to be made with different doughs.

 

gfweb, I think these 2 videos I already linked on the fresh pasta topic are useful to see how much you should work the dough. The 2 old sister in the video are old school and really are against the pasta machine, for them, it makes the dough too smooth. I don't go crazy over it. I usually roll the dough on the thickest setting 2-3 times. After the 1st time I fold my pasta sheet into thirds, to give more of a regular shape, thin with the rolling pin before going though the roll again. I usually go only one time in the subsequent smaller roll settings.

My trick to give a more rough feel to the pasta sheet, to mimic the hand rolling, is to let my pasta sheets rest 5-10 minutes, until it just feels drying a bit, but not too dry, before passing it in the last roll thickness I choose. It slightly cracks the surface making it look like hand rolled. 

 

I usually cut my tagliatelle, pappardelle by hand. I wait until it dried enough that doesn't stick anymore, but not so much the sheet rolled on itself cracks. 

[cakewalk]

To a good "rezdora", sfoglina, that is a No no, only and always just eggs...but in Liguria, just because they are known to be stingy, they use a combination of eggs and water.

Hmmm, seems there's another No no here ...

 

Interesting thread. Unlikely that I will ever make my own pasta, but I'm enjoying reading about it.

[LindaK]

Fresh pasta isn’t difficult, but can take practice.  I learned the basics from Marcella Hazan and still find her recipes and detailed descriptions to be among the best. Lots of good information on both technique and ingredients that served me well when trying different recipes over the years.  Pappardelle is the cut, not a pasta dough, so learn to make fresh pasta and you always have lots of options.

 

I can’t stress enough the importance of using the right flour. Imported 00 flour is standard but I also like durum flour, which gives you a firmer pasta (which is why it’s used for commercial extruded pasta). It also has a sharper flavor than the 00.  I use it (all or in part) when I’m making a pasta that will be baked, like lasagna, that I want to be sure holds up.  Forget all-purpose flour, which gives you neither flavor nor the right texture, and is a horror to work with too.

 

As for the flour/egg ratio, I’d echo Franci's advice.  Piedmontese tajarin, with the high egg yolk content, is fantastic.  I have one cookbook of that region, Piedmont by Matt Kramer, that has an entire section devoted to it. It's out of print, but if you can find it it’s worth reading for the tradition as well as the recipes. Sometimes I'll increase the egg yolks by a few--nowhere near the number for tajarin--and it does add great flavor.

 

 

There are a couple of older topics that would be worth reading for basic pasta making techniques:

 

 eCGI—Stuffed Pastas

 

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/39666-stuffed-pastas/

 

Fresh Pasta Topic

 

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/39614-the-fresh-pasta-topic/

 

[Okanagancook]

Pasta making is really such a fascinating topic.  As was Jamie Oliver's trip to Italy, if anyone saw that series.  

Instructions for making pasta: ah, let me count the ways........

 

I clearly smell a trip to the grocery store to get a mitt load of eggs!  I also think I will start a new note book entitled "Fresh Pasta - A Work in Progress".

 

I have 17 Italian cookbooks...mostly the usual suspects.  The latest one by T. McNaughton is quite a bit different from the others and I am looking forward to experimenting with his techniques and comparing them to what I have done in the past which is more along the lines of what Franci and LindaK have written.

And, Anna, I do encourage you to proceed with learning to make pasta.  You make fantastic bread and so already have a good feel for flour + water, just have to had eggs to the mix.

 

Let the kneading begin.

[scubadoo97]

I had a good time making pasta for three days in a row. The first Pappardelle was not right and was too sticky. Used the food pro for that batch. Then went to making it using the well method. Totally liked the feel with this method. I found the dough took far less flour to get right than a recipe would have called for from the flour left on the board. The texture was good and kneading it by hand allowed me to really feel the texture

At day 3 I thought my wife who thinks pasta is fatting was going to shoot me. "More pasta" ?[emoji35]. Oh well[emoji56]