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NY Cheesecake characteristics


Franci

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I already looked it up on Wikipedia.

Can you explain to me how an original NY cheesecake should look like? I know it should creamier and smooth. But then, what about the crust? I bough a book of Junior for a friend and has cornstarch in the filling and a sponge cake as base. It is a sour cream topping acceptable? It is a water bath the standard? Or very low cooking temperature is ok. I only made on time the ATK NY cheesecake and was very good but still I'm not sure what is really the standard. Should it be brown on top?

 

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A sour cream topping is acceptable but unnecessary (imho), as there's sour cream in the batter. Dana Bovbjerg and Jeremy Iggers, in The Joy of Cheesecake, don't use a topping. The batter goes into a 9" springform pan for 45 minutes at 400°F, then cools in the oven, with the door propped open, for three hours before going into the fridge. They also recommend a basic crumb crust, but using matzo instead of graham crackers. I couldn't tell you one way or the other about what color the top should be, but iirc (it's been a while), the top is indeed brown. (TMI: I made our wedding cake--a three-tiered dark chocolate cheesecake--from that cookbook, and decorated it with edible Hawaiian orchids. It's baked at 275°F for 75 minutes, then cooled in the oven.)

Edited by Alex (log)
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"There is no sincerer love than the love of food."  -George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman, Act 1

 

"Imagine all the food you have eaten in your life and consider that you are simply some of that food, rearranged."  -Max Tegmark, physicist

 

Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

 

"...in the mid-’90s when the internet was coming...there was a tendency to assume that when all the world’s knowledge comes online, everyone will flock to it. It turns out that if you give everyone access to the Library of Congress, what they do is watch videos on TikTok."  -Neil Stephenson, author, in The Atlantic

 

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer

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I'm not a big cheesecake fan, but one of the main differences between NY cheesecakes and "everything else" is the denseness. NY cheesecakes tend to be very dense, rather than light and fluffy. Classic crust is a graham cracker crust. Cornstarch in the filling and a sponge cake base sound completely wrong to me for a NY cheesecake. Unfortunately I can't give you details. :( But if you learn more, please share.

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Junior's makes an, imo, world class cake, but... I wouldn't necessarily say that it represents NY, nor would I even go as far to say that it represents Brooklyn.  I can't really speak for NY cheesecake in a historical perspective, but, for at least 25 years, graham cracker crusts have been the norm.  I've had some truly sublime pastry/shortbread crusts, and I'd never scoff at a crustless cake, but I think when most people think of NY cheesecake, they picture graham.

 

Sour cream toppings are outside the canon. They are insurance policies against cracked tops used by paranoid inexperienced cheesecake bakers. If you bake a cheesecake at the right rate- not too fast, not too slow, and to the right level of doneness- jiggly in the center, it shouldn't crack.

 

Water baths are unnecessary.  You use a water bath for baked goods that are inherently unstable, like a custard.  Cheesecake is far more stable than custard.

 

Traditional cheesecake should be gooey and undercooked in the center and crumbly and cakey at the rim.  The first gooeyest bite has always been my favorite part of the cake, as I'm sure it's been others, and I spent a great deal of time attempting to create an entire cake of that consistency.  While I'm reasonably certain it can be done with sous vide, I eventually came to the conclusion that the traditional range of doneness in a classic cake is preferable- that the gooey bites are just as integral to the character as the cakey ones.

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I am not a cheesecake fan, but have ordered a slice in various restaurants when I have been in the US. All were very dense and most were too sweet for me. All, with the exception of one, had slightly browned tops (of which a number had this "disguised" with a topping added). All, with the exception of the same one as above, had a crumb base.

The exception was one I had in Fort Lauderdale. It was also dense, but had no cracker base and the top was not brown nor coated. I asked the owner of the restaurant what happened to the crumb base and he told me that a proper NY cheesecake was never made with a crumb base. If this was true or not, I never found out.

Earlier this year I searched the Internet for a good recipe and came up with a few, which I tried. All were too dense for my liking and a few had a grainy mouth-feel. So, I did another search and found a recipe that worked for me. The author also says that a true NY cheesecake should have no crumb base but does add one to his cake once it has chilled after baking. Have a look here http://www.joepastry.com/category/pastry/cheesecake/new-york-cheesecake/

Edited by JohnT (log)

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I'm not a big cheesecake fan, but one of the main differences between NY cheesecakes and "everything else" is the denseness. NY cheesecakes tend to be very dense, rather than light and fluffy. Classic crust is a graham cracker crust. Cornstarch in the filling and a sponge cake base sound completely wrong to me for a NY cheesecake. Unfortunately I can't give you details. :( But if you learn more, please share.

 

Both Junior's and The Joy of Cheesecake use cornstarch in their recipes. NY style is dense, but also a bit cakey.

"There is no sincerer love than the love of food."  -George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman, Act 1

 

"Imagine all the food you have eaten in your life and consider that you are simply some of that food, rearranged."  -Max Tegmark, physicist

 

Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

 

"...in the mid-’90s when the internet was coming...there was a tendency to assume that when all the world’s knowledge comes online, everyone will flock to it. It turns out that if you give everyone access to the Library of Congress, what they do is watch videos on TikTok."  -Neil Stephenson, author, in The Atlantic

 

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer

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I'm no cheesecake expert. However, when I think of NY cheesecake I think of Lindy's. Not the current version sold in NYC, but the cheesecake from the original restaurant that closed. The recipe was thought to be lost, and now it is found. Try googling "Lindy's cheesecake."  I liked these links:

 

http://www.timesunion.com/living/article/Lost-recipe-for-legendary-cheesecake-found-3631242.php  -- Don't believe the stock photo with this article, BTW

 

http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipes/Lindys-Cheesecake

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I'm no cheesecake expert. However, when I think of NY cheesecake I think of Lindy's. Not the current version sold in NYC, but the cheesecake from the original restaurant that closed. The recipe was thought to be lost, and now it is found. Try googling "Lindy's cheesecake."  I liked these links:

 

http://www.timesunion.com/living/article/Lost-recipe-for-legendary-cheesecake-found-3631242.php  -- Don't believe the stock photo with this article, BTW

 

http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipes/Lindys-Cheesecake

Ah! "Ignorance is bliss", or so I am told. I was sent that exact same Lindy's cheesecake recipe many years ago by a friend in Australia, who passed away about 10 years ago. It was titled LINDY'S ORIGINAL NEW YORK CHEESECAKE and makes two cakes - double the quantities given in the first link. I never tried it as I thought "what the hell does an Australian woman know about making a New York cheesecake". I always thought that "Lindy" was somebody's mother living down-under who tried to make a NY style cheesecake! Now, I just have to find the time to convert it to metric and make one.
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Cape Town - At the foot of a flat topped mountain with a tablecloth covering it.

Some time ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.

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The two Lindy's recipes above are each a bit different. Every time I see recipes for an "original" NY cheesecake I think of the old joke about someone's mother always serving leftovers, the original recipe was never found. :rolleyes: In any case, both recipes look like they'll turn out an extremely dense and delicious cheesecake. Note that it has a crust, and not a graham cracker crust but "real" one, so who knows what's original? Much as I love Joe Pastry, I disagree with him on this one.

 

Edited to make things even more confusing: another recipe for a "NY Cheesecake" (which happens to look very good, but then she is an excellent baker) http://www.gbakes.com/

Edited by cakewalk (log)
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I love cheesecake and have made many (and eaten!) many over the years. I like the NY style best which as one poster put it, is a little soft and creamy in the middle and cakey at the edge. Cakey enough where it actually gives up crumbs! I've had Juniors at their restaurant in Manhattan and like it but it's not my favorite and I certainly love a crumb crust more than a sponge crust. I've had it in Miami where it is a little similar although it did have a crumb crust.

 

Believe it or not, the best recipe I've found is the original Philadelphia cream cheese recipe. It's a little hard to find as it's not on the box anymore and they've changed it since the original was printed. It doesn't have corn starch in it but a little flour and come out very dense and cakey at the edges and creamy in the middle. I've made it in a springform pan and in a square pan and it always comes out perfect. And the top is never brown, just a nice yellowish-beige color.

Good luck on your quest!

Ruth

 

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Believe it or not, the best recipe I've found is the original Philadelphia cream cheese recipe. It's a little hard to find as it's not on the box anymore and they've changed it since the original was printed. It doesn't have corn starch in it but a little flour and come out very dense and cakey at the edges and creamy in the middle. I've made it in a springform pan and in a square pan and it always comes out perfect. And the top is never brown, just a nice yellowish-beige color.

 

 

I really like the Philly cream cheese recipe too. When DH & I were dating, he made it for me using the recipe off the box.  I remember one time he made it, but didn't do a good job on foil-wrapping the springform, and water from the water bath got in during the baking. We poured it off, and it was still perfectly fine (crust was a little moister than usual, though).

 

I can't recall the exact recipe, but this one from their website looks about right  Philadelphia New York Cheesecake

Edited by Beebs (log)
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Regarding starch (flour/cornstarch) in cheesecake. The temperatures that eggs denature are generally lower than the temps starches gelatinize at, so, in the areas where you have less cooked egg, such as in the center, you're also going to see uncooked, ungelatinized starch. The other ingredients will most likely hide the horrible flavor and texture of the small amount of raw starch, but why add even a little bit of something that you know is impairing the flavor?

 

If you don't believe me, wet some cornstarch or flour with water and taste it.  You don't want to eat that.

 

Also, regarding browning.  Temps that induce browning are typically high enough to inhibit undercooked, unset centers, which is the key to the creamy first bite, which is, imo, the foundation of this style. 

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After I posted that, I looked on the Kraft website and only saw the newer recipe which has less cream cheese and no flour so I think the one Beebs posted above is the one I've used in the past but I'll check when I get home and post back tomorrow. (I'm pretty sure it's the same because the 5 pkgs of cream cheese is correct...)

Ruth

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The two Lindy's recipes above are each a bit different. Every time I see recipes for an "original" NY cheesecake I think of the old joke about someone's mother always serving leftovers, the original recipe was never found...

 

I believe many attempts were made to reverse engineer the Lindy's recipe after the restaurant closed. And how many pastry cooks who worked at the restaurant knew how to make the cheesecake anyway?

 

I first encountered a "Lindy's" recipe in a cheese cookbook I owned decades ago. That's what made me think of Lindy's in the first place. The Australian recipe, because of its back story and source, goes to the front of the pack IMO. The Saveur recipe was probably adapted and tweaked from several sources. Unlike the Australian recipe, the Saveur recipe is well-written and shows recipe-testing.

 

I found both recipes (and others like it online) fascinating to read. It's so Italian. The crust is basically a pasta frolla. The filling reminds me of the basic cheesecake of the ancient Romans, which was not much more than farmer's cheese, eggs and flour to bind, seasoning, and baking time to dry out the whole thing. I wonder if the first recipe was made with farmer's cheese, with cream added to enrich it. When the recipe came to the U.S., cream cheese was subbed for the farmer's cheese, and the cheesecake became much heavier and rich. We'll never know, of course, this is my imagination at work. :rolleyes:

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When I see someone use sour cream topping, I tend to believe they are hiding something.  I learn that from a chef I worked under many years ago.  Every time I see it I normally skim the topping off and I find the top is overcooked.  Every place is different when it comes to cheesecakes.  The hardest part about baking cheesecakes is which type of oven you are using.  IMO, deck oven with heating controls for top and bottom are the best.  I have had many successes using stone in a convection oven to still obtain no brown marks on top.

 

The other thing about cheesecakes which varies place to place is the egg content.  I have compared various recipes, mostly with the same guidelines on mixing and cream cheese amount.  The egg amount is the key factor.  Some prefer to separate the eggs and make a meringue and fold in last.  Others will have 1-2 eggs per pound of cream cheese. 

 

I don't mean to ramble on, unfortunately I have to have my cheesecake on my menu when I work in restaurants or bakeries.  Only because I have been using the same formula for the past 15 years.  I usually have the same conversations with customers when they ask about other people's cheesecakes.  I have to believe that a traditional NY Style is suppose to be dense and heavy.   I do not know who came up with that theory, but according to most NY bakers that is what they all say.  Below is a sample of cheesecake I do in the restaurants. 

 

 

cheesecake slice.jpg

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Some prefer to separate the eggs and make a meringue and fold in last...

 

...I have to believe that a traditional NY Style is suppose to be dense and heavy.   I do not know who came up with that theory, but according to most NY bakers that is what they all say.

 

NY style cheesecake absolutely has to be dense and heavy- which is why making a meringue is contraindicated. In fact, I pound all my poured cheesecake batters quite aggressively in an effort to get as much air as I can out of them.

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The New York chesecake is one of those great mysteries of the pastry universe. I've seen many different versions in my years in kitchens some nice some horrible. I'm pretty sure there are a milion and different recipies for the New York cheesecake but from my understanding it needs to be quite dense,rich and only just set in the middle.

 

Being not located in America I've only tried the recipies that have appeared here in N.Z but the best recipie I found that works for me takes 2hrs to cook and contains a large amount of Condensed Milk along with Cream cheese etc. Its the recipie that everyone seems to love and it goes a light tan colour on top with the low and slow baking. I'm happy to post it up if your interested,though it will be all in metric weights and celcius temps so some conversions maybe needed.

 

As for the base i've done everything from sweet pastry to the traditional crumb base and even a oreo cookie base, I think it comes down to personal preference really and I've never really done any real digging to try and find the "correct" base for the traditional N.Y Cheesecake.

E.D.E!

Eat / Drink / Enjoy!

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I am from the source. This pic shows the texture of a true NY cheesecake.  And here is the closest I have ever come to duplicating the true European style cheesecake, complete with pastry crust, from a great Jewish/central European place, like the famous (down the street from me growing up) Claremont Diner cheesecake. It is well worth your time and effort. Most people today substitute Zwieback crumbs for the pastry, but try it like this just once, if not always.  

Cheesecake%20cut_thumb%5B1%5D.jpg?imgmax            Cheesecake%20cut%20front_thumb%5B1%5D.jp

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I am from the source. This pic shows the texture of a true NY cheesecake.  And here is the closest I have ever come to duplicating the true European style cheesecake, complete with pastry crust, from a great Jewish/central European place, like the famous (down the street from me growing up) Claremont Diner cheesecake. It is well worth your time and effort. Most people today substitute Zwieback crumbs for the pastry, but try it like this just once, if not always.  

 

When you say "true European style cheesecake", my favorite recipe is from the Time-Life Cooking of Italy, pp 28-29.  "...One of the oldest of Roman dishes."  This is very different from any NY style cheesecake I have had.

Cooking is cool.  And kitchen gear is even cooler.  -- Chad Ward

Whatever you crave, there's a dumpling for you. -- Hsiao-Ching Chou

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Is there a particular type of cheese you'd use in a New York Cheesecake?  When I've seen baked cheesecakes they've usually been made with ricotta.  I've always associated Kraft Philadelphia with refrigerated cheesecakes, never occurred to me that you could bake it.  There are a few Italian patisseries around my parts that are well know for their baked ricotta cheesecakes, I'd be interested to know how a New York Cheesecake would differ from a traditional Italian one.

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Is there a particular type of cheese you'd use in a New York Cheesecake?  When I've seen baked cheesecakes they've usually been made with ricotta.  I've always associated Kraft Philadelphia with refrigerated cheesecakes, never occurred to me that you could bake it.  There are a few Italian patisseries around my parts that are well know for their baked ricotta cheesecakes, I'd be interested to know how a New York Cheesecake would differ from a traditional Italian one.

I think you answered your own question - to my knowledge, a traditional Italian cheesecake has a baked crust and is made using ricotta cheese, whilst a NY cheesecake is made mostly with a crumb crust and is made using cream cheese. Both are baked. John.

Cape Town - At the foot of a flat topped mountain with a tablecloth covering it.

Some time ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.

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