Recommended gourmet foods?

[LizD518]

Much good advice here. I can only say, find what you like to eat and appreciate it fully. I feel that's what gourmet means. It's true that traditionally a gourmet is supposed to be interested in exotic foods like foie gras or caviar or expensive wines, but that doesn't have to be so. In my neck of the woods, Alice Waters has made "fresh, local, seasonal"--and simple--as the epitome of good food with a gourmet cachet.

 

 

 

I'd also add that to me gourmet no longer means a specific style of food (haute cuisine) but it means going beyond the basic.  A basic pizza is some sort of dough topped with tomato sauce and cheese, likely mozzarella.  There can be good and bad versions of a basic pizza.  A gourmet pizza would be a good version, but would also have something unexpected about it.  I personally wouldn't consider a pizza margherita gourmet, even a very good one; but a pizza like this example from a place in my area would be: creamy mushroom duxelles sauce, white chicken chunks, parmesan cheese & chives.

[NewFoodie]

Do you live somewhere with gourmet shops or supermarkets that give classes?

 

Not to my knowledge.  I've never heard of any such classes held locally.

 

Had you eaten at Elements on Bayard St before it closed to move to Witherspoon St?  Have you gone and explored the truly local delicacies of Trenton Tomato Pie at either of the Delorenzos?

 

I never ate at Elements.  Years ago, I ate at one of the DeLorenzos (the one that used to be across the street from the Trenton train station).  My recollection is that is was good, but not great.

 

Are you as averse to Philadelphia as you are to NYC...

 

No, I like Philly.

 

...or does NY carry some particular scary cachet for you?

 

The last time I went there, within ONE MINUTE of exitting the tunnel into town, I was ticketed $160 for making a LEGAL turn, as were a host of other people, all of whom, like me, were driving cars with out-of-state license plates.  That was  because these crooked cops knew we wouldn't come all the way back to NYC (and spend all day in their packed-to-the-rafters traffic courts) to fight the inevitable.  So essentially, I was INSTANTLY mugged by the police, who were conducting a criminal operation in the streets, not only with their superiors' consent, but doubtless at their direction.  And this single event is only the tip of the iceberg.  Trust me, you don't want to hear me wax eloquent on this topic.

 

How close to urbanity are you comfortable going?

 

Admittedly, not very.

[SobaAddict70]

I just googled "Princeton cooking classes nj" and these were the first three links:

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/princeton

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/stores/us/nj/princeton-market-fair/

http://ezekielstable.com/

Hope those are of some help to you.

[cdh]

I actually most enjoy "Good Eats", which host Alton Brown describes as a mix of Julia Child, Mr. Wizard, and Monty Python.  It's the "food science" aspect of the show that I like.

 

That tells me that perhaps coming at improving your enjoyment of food from the scientific perspective might be your best path.  Luckily for you, the Modernist Cuisine books have been published...  they're insanely expensive to purchase, but you fortunately have a fine public library system that will get you access to them for nothing.  I'd check them out and get reading.  They are all about technique more than they are about standard recipes... but technique is where the deliciousness comes from more often than not.  The same old ingredients can be tweaked to new heights of tastiness with some of the methods described in there.  Granted executing some of them will require fancy kitchen equipment like immersion circulators and/or access to fun stuff like liquid nitrogen, but some are within reach of ordinary folks who own a pressure cooker...

Edited July 10, 2014 by cdh (log)

[NewFoodie]

SobaAddict70 and cdh: Thanks for your input, but I'm not even sure that I want to learn how to cook, at least for now.

SobaAddict70:

The first link leads to a webpage for Whole Foods Market (although you have to look quite closely to even discover this).  On this webpage, there is the statement "See our list of upcoming classes on Eventbrite" in small letters, but it is not linked to Eventbrite.  If you go to Eventbrite's website on your own, you'll see that it's a clearinghouse for "events", but it won't tell you anything about those events unless you join.

The second link leads to a store website that mentions an upcoming class for how to prepare food with "the spiralizer", which is doubtless a device they hope to sell you.

The third link leads to a website for a couple who run a business at their home, where you have to sign up with a group of at least eight people to attend a dinner party at which the guests help make the dinner; this will cost you at least $1,500.

But thanks again for your input.

[dcarch]

Chinese used to feed truffles to pigs.

 

dcarch

[NewFoodie]

Chinese used to feed truffles to pigs.

 

That IS interesting, but I don't see the relevance...

 

Actually, maybe the Chinese were using pigs to hunt for truffles, and the pigs ate some of them before their human handlers could stop them.. That why pigs have for the most part been replaced by dogs as truffle hunters.

 

For that matter, since the truffles the Chinese would have encountered would have been the Chinese black truffle (Tuber indicum), perhaps the Chinese weren't really all that interested in them.  I believe I read somewhere that even nowadays, the Chinese black truffle sells for only $100 per pound.

[dcarch]

That IS interesting, but I don't see the relevance...

 

 

The point is what is gourmet to one culture may not be to another, as have been said a few times by others.

 

For instance, I consider tofu gourmet.

 

On a thread posted by Luizhou, I was very interested in a dish called Men See Tofu Potage. It was a tofu dish enjoyed by one of the emperors as well as now by many.

 

dcarch

[djyee100]

This is a blog about NJ food events and restaurant reviews. It can get you started.

Jersey Bites: http://www.jerseybites.com/

About the writers and review policy, here: http://www.jerseybites.com/welcome/

Their Facebook page has more info about shops, restaurants, and events: https://www.facebook.com/JerseyBites
 

Edited July 11, 2014 by djyee100 (log)

[liuzhou]

 

It's very difficult for me to understand such a vast difference in cultural perspective.

 

Learning about food is, in part , learning to overcome these irrational prejudices.

 

 

 

Liuzhou can tell you more, but a couple of things...

* China has approx. 25% of the world's population and 10% of the planet's arable land. Their society has learned to squeeze every available edible bit out of anything imaginable and put it to good use.

* Cheese/dairy has not, historically, been a part of the Chinese diet in the same way that it is for many other Western cultures for many reasons -- like for instance, that arable land bit. This Wiki article goes into more detail: http://en.wikipedia....Chinese_cuisine . To understand why a culture eats the way it does, you might have to look into its past.

 

Also, China has suffered huge famines in which millions died - within living memory. People ate anything they could find.

 

You seem to be saying you want to be "a foodie", but aren't really that interested in food. You keep putting up barriers and setting obstacles in the way. You don't want this and you don't want that and you don't want to learn to cook and you don't want any foreign muck except foie gras (but no liver).

 

I'm not saying you have to learn to cook to appreciate good food, but it helps enormously to have some understanding of what is making the food so good.

Edited July 11, 2014 by liuzhou (log)

[NewFoodie]

>Learning about food is, in part , learning to overcome these irrational prejudices.

 

Of course my feelings are irrational, as are all subjective feelings.  That doesn't mean that one's subjective feelings are "unreasonable" though - not because subjective feelings can be "right", but because emotional, subjective feelings aren't part of the rational part of the human mind - and that is as it should be.

 

But "prejudices"?  This implies that I am consciously, intellectually judging the ways of another culture to be "wrong".  I didn't think that, I didn't feel that, I didn't say that, I didn't imply that, and I didn't mean that.

 

I didn't say Chinese cuisine was "wrong".  I merely expressed great surprise at the enormous difference in cultural perspective - which is precisely what I said.  And above all, I was NOT attacking Chinese culture, and I'm stunned that you seem to have taken it that way.  No one ELSE seemed to think that I was attacking Chinese culture.

 

>You seem to be saying you want to be "a foodie", but aren't really that interested in food. You keep putting up barriers and setting obstacles in the way. You don't want this and you don't want that and you don't want to learn to cook and you don't want any foreign muck except foie gras (but no liver).

 

This certainly sounds like you are quite angry with me, but as I explained above, I believe you have misconstrued my intentions entirely.  And I have just as much right to my subjective tastes as you or anyone else does.  If I don't want to eat offal, I don't have to, and it's quite inappropriate for someone else to get angry about that.

 

I have no problem with anyone else eating whatever they want - no matter how much it surprises me - and I don't understand why you would possibly care what my tastes in food are.

[liuzhou]

 

This certainly sounds like you are quite angry with me

 

I'm not in the least bit angry. I don't care that much.

 

I just think you are being very negative. You ask for advise on becoming a 'foodie' (horrible word) then reject almost all advise offered. Of course you can eat what you want and not eat what you don't want.   However, you say you want to expand your food horizons, but shut your eyes left, right and centre.

 

When I used the word 'prejudice', I didn't mean 'racially prejudiced'.  I didn't think that, I didn't feel that, I didn't say that, I didn't imply that, and I didn't mean that.

 

I meant you have decided you don't like things without even trying them - not a foodie trait.

 

Goodnight.

Edited July 11, 2014 by liuzhou (log)

[Mjx]

Right: So far, what we're getting is that you want to to sample 'different' food, but 'different' in that it's described as 'gourmet' in popular US culture, and not too different.

 

Okay, but WHY?

 

I don't mean 'defend your position', but no advice is going to be helpful, if there's no hint of where this desire of yours is coming from.

 

Most of us are working with the assumption that you, like ourselves, are interested in broadening your food horizon because you appreciate food for its own sake, and are offering suggestions based on this; that's not going to help you, if that's not really your thing.

 

So.

 

Have you recently eaten something that made you realize that there's a whole world of delicious and intriguing food, about which you knew nothing, before?

 

Or, are you curious about what supposedly prestigious food is like?

 

Do you simply want to appear knowledgeable about something that has cultural cachet?

[SobaAddict70]

SobaAddict70 and cdh: Thanks for your input, but I'm not even sure that I want to learn how to cook, at least for now.

SobaAddict70:

The first link leads to a webpage for Whole Foods Market (although you have to look quite closely to even discover this).  On this webpage, there is the statement "See our list of upcoming classes on Eventbrite" in small letters, but it is not linked to Eventbrite.  If you go to Eventbrite's website on your own, you'll see that it's a clearinghouse for "events", but it won't tell you anything about those events unless you join.

The second link leads to a store website that mentions an upcoming class for how to prepare food with "the spiralizer", which is doubtless a device they hope to sell you.

The third link leads to a website for a couple who run a business at their home, where you have to sign up with a group of at least eight people to attend a dinner party at which the guests help make the dinner; this will cost you at least $1,500.

But thanks again for your input.

Well, actually, you had said you were unaware of any cooking classes that were held locally in response to something cdh asked. (Would you like me to quote you?)

I provided those links to show that there were cooking classes held in your immediate vicinity, at supermarkets and by private companies. The specifics aren't particularly relevant as far as I'm concerned since you hadn't provided any additional information that was germane to your situation.  Regrettably, telepathy is not one of my magical powers.  (FYI, there is a link to the Eventbrite site on the Whole Foods' page, but it's not clearly marked.  Furthermore, you can clearly see what events are offered and decide on your own whether you want to join:  http://www.eventbrite.com/o/whole-foods-market-princeton-5568680797 )

And now that you mention it, since you're unsure as to whether you want to learn how to cook, all of that is moot.

Thanks for your input.

 

Edited July 11, 2014 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[NewFoodie]

I'm not doing anything wrong, and I haven't been rude to anyone.  If you don't like my approach to food, why trouble yourself to speak to me?  I haven't done anything to you or anyone else here.

 

>Well, actually, you said you were unaware of any cooking classes that were held locally. (Would you like me to quote you?)
 

 Why would I want you to quote me?  Of course I said that.  I wasn't aware of any local cooking classes.  Is that offensive?

 

>I provided those links to show that there were cooking classes held in your immediate vicinity.

 

But I never said I wanted to take any cooking classes.

 

>I meant you have decided you don't like things without even trying them - not a foodie trait.

 

>Right: So far, what we're getting is that you want to to sample 'different' food, but 'different' in that it's described as 'gourmet' in popular US culture, and not too different.

 

So what?  I'm entitled to do that.  I have a right to my tastes.  That's not an attack on anyone.

 

>Do you simply want to appear knowledgeable about something that has cultural cachet?

 

I've already addressed that question in a previous post: the answer is "no".  WHy question my motives?  I'm entitled to my opinions.

 

>Thanks for your input.
 

I was sincere when I thanked you for your input.  Why the sarcasm?

 

Why all the hostility?

[SobaAddict70]

If you don't like my approach to food, why trouble yourself to speak to me?

You posed a question to the forum and we engaged you in a conversation.

 

>Well, actually, you said you were unaware of any cooking classes that were held locally. (Would you like me to quote you?)

 

 Why would I want you to quote me?  Of course I said that.  I wasn't aware of any local cooking classes.  Is that offensive?

It's not offensive. I was pointing out that you had answered you weren't aware of local cooking classes, then proceeded to show that in fact, there were. A simple Google search indicates that.

 

>I provided those links to show that there were cooking classes held in your immediate vicinity.

 

But I never said I wanted to take any cooking classes.

This is true, but as I said in my edited post above, telepathy is not one of my innate abilities, nor is reading comprehension apparently.

That being said, cooking classes are one way you can expand your depth and breadth of knowledge about the wide world of food. That was why cdh asked that question presumably. People do educate themselves for various reasons even though the focus of whatever it is they're studying or learning about will never be used in their day-to-day lives.

 

 

>Thanks for your input.

 

I was sincere when I thanked you for your input.  Why the sarcasm?

 

Why all the hostility?

Were you? Your reply to me comes across to me as sarcastic, so I simply responded in kind. I can't read minds, remember?

I don't see any hostility here. It's too early in the day for that kind of thing anyway, and besides, I haven't drunk my coffee yet.

Edited July 11, 2014 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[Mjx]

I'm not doing anything wrong, and I haven't been rude to anyone.  If you don't like my approach to food, why trouble yourself to speak to me?  I haven't done anything to you or anyone else here.

 

. . . .

 

I was sincere when I thanked you for your input.  Why the sarcasm?

 

Why all the hostility?

I'm not being sarcastic or hostile, but you're giving us nothing to work with, lliterally: you've only described what you're not interested in; that's not an 'approach'.

 

Imagine you're a long-time member of an automotive forum, and someone joins and says they're interested in 'good cars'. Then, they mention that they're not interested in any foreign cars. So, other forum members begin asking 'what do you mean by "good"?', 'are you interested reliability, good mileage, an amazing ride, the newest tech, vintage, straight-up flash/luxury?', 'are you up for a certain amount of DYI?'

If this new member responded with more explanations of what they weren't interested in, or indicated that they thought these questions constituted an attack on their motives, wouldn't you wonder what was going on?

 

We can't read your mind, in fact, we can't even read your face, since all we have to go on is what you post.

 

There's nothing wrong with being interested in/attracted to any of the things I've mentioned (including luxury and novelty), but you need to clearly articulate what you want, if you want any sort of useful suggestion. Right now, you're just engaging members in a guessing game.

[dcarch]

Once we have isolated cultural/religious biases, elitism, and personal preferences, the discussion can be less "passionate".

 

I was with a client in a Kosher restaurant, I thought the food was delicious, and was certainly gourmet food.

 

I was talking food with with a Filipino friend, I would agree that balut, an unusual  street food there, qualifies as gourmet food.

 

dcarch

[liuzhou]

 

Why all the hostility?

 

I don't think there has been as much hostility as there could have been. But, there has been a lot of frustration at the never ending negativity. 

 

People answered you in good faith. No one is required to do so. We are here because we like talking about food. That is what "foodies" do, We sometimes disagree. Usually mildly; sometimes less so.  That is called life.

 

But you have shot down nearly every suggestion we have made without putting anything up in return. Just "I don't want..." "I don't want..."

 

Go on try hard. Tell us one food you really, really like and why you like it. Something you haven't come near to doing so far..

 

It won't hurt and may give us something to go on.

Edited July 11, 2014 by liuzhou (log)

[cdh]

SobaAddict70 and cdh: Thanks for your input, but I'm not even sure that I want to learn how to cook, at least for now.

 

Well, there are two ways you are going to broaden your taste buds' horizons-  Going to restaurants/markets/etc where good food is prepared and presented, or taking cooking classes where you learn the techniques behind the preparation and presentation.  Good food is more than good ingredients... it is good technique applied to good ingredients by means of highly effective tools for the needed purpose.  At a restaurant you get the good food, and some partial insight into the ingredients, but no insight into the techniques or tools.  That is something the Modernist Cuisine books attempt to tackle... but from a very lofty position, so maybe not of interest to somebody looking to build up from the foundations.  Cooking lessons do that too, but in an interactive and hands on format. 

 

You sound as though you're a very analytical person, and I'd bet you have a quantitative bent.  That suggests that baking lessons may be the place for you to start.  Baking is very precise, and can employ lots of ingredients for you to learn about.  French pastry demos I've been to have been quite interesting... If you find this uninteresting or your friend thinks that it is unmanly and weird, you might want to take up the art of BBQ, which is as much about engineering your cooking contraption's thermodynamics as it is about anything else... You're building a reactor to maximize the collagen to gelatine reaction... the byproduct is yummy muscle fibers drenched in the gelatine you made.

Edited July 11, 2014 by cdh (log)

[cdh]

It also sounds like you need to immerse yourself in the philosophy of good food more than you need a shopping list for your next run to the store.  Maybe building you a reading list of not-recipe-books about good food and the gustatory pleasures would be worthwhile, provided you're not of the school of thought that philosophy is claptrap and the humanities are a waste of time. 

 

To kick it off, I'd suggest getting your hands on MFK Fisher's The Art of Eating anthology.

[BeatriceB]

Hello --

 

I grew up in Princeton, so I know your area, and there isn't a whole lot of sophisticated food there, though there is plenty of good food.

 

Honestly, the best thing for you to do, given your location, and that you don't want/like to cook, is to come to New York, which is very safe and pleasant (by and large) these days.  Do not drive.  If you live between Princeton/Trenton, it is easy and cheap for you to take NJ Transit to Penn Station, NY.  Ahead of time, research and print subway and bus maps for Manhattan.  Look at the Manhattan boards here for places with food you'd like to experience, and explore the menus online.  Plot out how to get to that neighborhood, and for a single given day trip, try to keep your eating venues within walking distance of each other.  Walking around Manhattan is fun and interesting in almost every neighborhood.  If you want to take a cab, only use the yellow cabs at the stands outside Penn Station, even if you have to wait in line, and, elsewhere, only hail a yellow cab.

 

P.S.  There is spectacular food in Queens, Bronx, and Brooklyn, too, but that's for advanced lessons

Edited July 11, 2014 by BeatriceB (log)

[NewFoodie]

Yes, although I said I have an aversion to offal in general, I expressed an interest in foie gras, and that was because it was recommended to me.  I admit I had some trepidation, since I dislike beef liver.  It was better than I thought it would be, but still not my cup of tea.

 

liuzhou
>I just think you are being very negative. You ask for advise on becoming a 'foodie' (horrible word) then reject almost all advise offered.

 

I disagree that I'm being very negative and rejecting almost all advise offered.  Consider the following exchanges I've had with other people in this thread:

 

ChrisTaylor
>>...charcuterie, something else worth exploring.

>This sounds like an excellent idea

 

liuzhou:
>>Start with two different varieties of say, tomatoes. What is the difference in flavour? Sweetness? Acidity? Then try them cooked in different ways.

>I've cultivated perhaps a dozen kinds of tomatoes, and perhaps a dozen kinds of other vegetables, as well as perhaps a dozen kinds of potatoes, and I sampled all of these a number of times.  I confess I didn't analyze these gustatory experiences, though.  I suppose I should have.

 

SobaAddict70
>>Assuming you mean things like fried chicken, pizza and meatloaf, then I might start here: it's Franny's clam pizza at their restaurant in Brooklyn.  It's not haute cuisine, but it's something that a foodie might eat

>This clam pizza looks excellent.  I'll show this video to my friend.

 

And it never occurred to me that 'foodie' was a horrible word.  Other members have used it throughout this thread.

 

SobaAddict70
>Thanks for your input.
>Your reply to me comes across to me as sarcastic, so I simply responded in kind. I can't read minds, remember?

 

As God is my witness, I can't understand how you could interpret my sincere thanks for providing those links, even if they didn't work out for me, as sarcastic.  If you won't believe that, I don't know what else I can say.

 

Mjx
>...you've only described what you're not interested in...

 

Of course.  I don't KNOW what I'm interested in.  I know nothing about such matters.  That's precisely why I came to this group for advice in the first place.  I'll think about it and see what I can come up with.

 

liuzhou
>Tell us one food you really, really like and why you like it.

 

I like all the things my friend prepares for me, which I thought would have been obvious, since I continue to eat it, and I like sushi and sashimi.  I like these foods because they taste good and it's pleasant to eat them; for me, that is reason enough to eat them.

 

>I don't think there has been as much hostility as there could have been.

 

Wow.  So the hostility was merited, then?  I don't want to upset anyone, liuzhou, so perhaps it would be best if you troubled yourself no further on my behalf.

 

dcarch
>Once we have isolated cultural/religious biases, elitism, and personal preferences, the discussion can be less "passionate".

 

Amen.

 

To the group as a whole: Thank you for your kind words and advice.  (And yes, I am sincere in saying so, and no, I am not being sarcastic.)

[SobaAddict70]

SobaAddict70

>>Assuming you mean things like fried chicken, pizza and meatloaf, then I might start here: it's Franny's clam pizza at their restaurant in Brooklyn.  It's not haute cuisine, but it's something that a foodie might eat

>This clam pizza looks excellent.  I'll show this video to my friend.

 

And it never occurred to me that 'foodie' was a horrible word.  Other members have used it throughout this thread.

I don't believe it was I who said that "foodie" was a horrible word but liuzhou.

However, I do agree with Liuzhou that it's not my preferred term, although probably not for the reasons he has.

My perspective is that it's a rather infantile pejorative that doesn't begin to describe any of the people on this forum, including you. I try not to use it in my dealings with other people. You'll notice that in almost about every comment on this thread that I've made, I've enclosed the term in quotes. Here is a discussion on Chowhound that explores why some people feel that way, for instance. That's not germane to this thread however.

 

SobaAddict70

>Thanks for your input.

>Your reply to me comes across to me as sarcastic, so I simply responded in kind. I can't read minds, remember?

 

As God is my witness, I can't understand how you could interpret my sincere thanks for providing those links, even if they didn't work out for me, as sarcastic.  If you won't believe that, I don't know what else I can say.

Text-only communication has its shortcomings. I apologize if I perceived things wrongly, however I can only say that it still reads to me as "sarcastic". That being said, this is a really trivial issue that shouldn't color your perspective of eGullet and its membership. I've already moved on.

 

 

liuzhou

>Tell us one food you really, really like and why you like it.

 

I like all the things my friend prepares for me, which I thought would have been obvious, since I continue to eat it, and I like sushi and sashimi.  I like these foods because they taste good and it's pleasant to eat them; for me, that is reason enough to eat them.

I would suggest that it WAS NOT obvious in the least, otherwise the question would not have been asked. Do you see a pattern here? "rather mainstream American non-haute cuisine" is a terribly broad category. It would be as if I had said I loathe "Asian food". Do I mean Chinese? Japanese? Thai? Indian? Malaysian?

"Thanksgiving food" is slightly better using the example you provided, but that's still a little broad, because (1) not everyone eats the same thing even though that's the gold standard and (2) it's only one meal a year. Unless you mean that your friend cooks those dishes on a regular basis.

"pasta-based dishes" can be anything from American to Asian to European and all points in between. However the rest of that comment suggests Italian or something along those lines.

I think the difficulty that many of us are having is because there has not been much specificity that would enable us to provide you with more relevant/more helpful suggestions.

Edited July 11, 2014 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[pastrygirl]

NewFoodie, you say you don't cook, but do you shop? Go to the grocery store and just check everything out. Go to both the fancy gourmet shops and the Asian and Hispanic Markets. Try a new chocolate bar, note what meats are available and ask your friend if she knows how to cook them. Have you tried rabbit, quail, wild boar, lamb? Is there a good cheese shop in your area? You can often get just a few ounces of cheese, so if you try it and it's too strong, not much wasted. Have you tried tamarind or fresh passion fruit? Try new restaurants in your area. I think you just have to start with what is available to you, and gift your friend some cookbooks if you find a cuisine you both want to explore. Go to Philly for a weekend and explore eater.com's essential 38 and heatmaps for the city. Look at menus online.

If something sounds interesting, eat it. If it's really too weird, stop eating it I've given natto and durian a few tries and am now comfortable avoiding them, its OK to have limits. But I will tell you that a nicely cooked sweetbread is like the best chicken nugget ever, you should try them!