Marinated salmon without the salt? Or... suggestions to remove water from fish w/o salting or smoking it?

[andrestorrubia]

I routinely have marinated salmon for breakfast, which I prepare adding a pinch or salt and brown sugar to salmon and vacuum sealing it.  In my experience vacuum sealing it with the salt and sugar allows for dramatically reducing the amount of sugar/salt need and the time to marinate it can be extended to days instead of hours with little risk of the fish becoming too salty.

Here's a pic:

 

 

 

So far so food.  The other day I decided to do it again except this time I would not add any sugar, just salt.  The result was the same in terms on consistency:

 

 

BUT the fish was way to salty, almost inedible to my taste; and I am not sure why:

 

* Is the amount of salt present in the fish the same in both versions but the sugar just masking some of the salty taste?

 

* Is sugar preventing some of the salt getting in the fish?

 

For health reasons I would like to limit the amount of salt I take.  Are there any other ways (excluding smoking) to remove part of the water from an oily fish like salmon?

 

Suggestions greatly welcome!

 

 

 

 

[CatPoet]

Well even when you do gravad lax, which uses more  sugar and salt to cure, it doesnt get  extremely salty either .  Maybe it is the vacuum that did it?  I used to make gravad lax  ( buried salmon if you translate it literally ), no vacuum and  you washed the salt away when the curing was done. Lovely food even if it takes sometime to do it.

[boudin noir]

I routinely have marinated salmon for breakfast, which I prepare adding a pinch or salt and brown sugar to salmon and vacuum sealing it.  In my experience vacuum sealing it with the salt and sugar allows for dramatically reducing the amount of sugar/salt need and the time to marinate it can be extended to days instead of hours with little risk of the fish becoming too salty.

Here's a pic:

 

 

 

So far so food.  The other day I decided to do it again except this time I would not add any sugar, just salt.  The result was the same in terms on consistency:

 

 

BUT the fish was way to salty, almost inedible to my taste; and I am not sure why:

 

* Is the amount of salt present in the fish the same in both versions but the sugar just masking some of the salty taste?

 

* Is sugar preventing some of the salt getting in the fish?

 

For health reasons I would like to limit the amount of salt I take.  Are there any other ways (excluding smoking) to remove part of the water from an oily fish like salmon?

 

Suggestions greatly welcome!

Raw rice is hygroscopic ( takes up water ). It may take out water from the fish without imposing any flavor.

[rotuts]

may i ask what vacuum sealer you are using ?

 

just curious ....

[andrestorrubia]

may i ask what vacuum sealer you are using ?

 

just curious ....

 

Hello - it's this one:

 

http://www.magicvac.magicvac.it/en/magicvac/1/master/14/maxima

[Smithy]

I'd like a bit more information about quantities and time, if you don't mind telling. When you normally do this, about how much brown sugar and how much salt do you use, on approximately what size piece of fish? Are you saying that you usually just sprinkle a little of each on the surface of the fish, then vacuum pack it? Or is it a small amount of seasoning sprinkled on one small patch of the fish? (That's what your salt-only photo looks like, to me.) Are you adding no liquid? Finally, for how long do you usually marinade, and at what temperatures?

I don't know whether that information will help troubleshoot and offer ideas, but it may. Besides, I'm curious to try it myself. ;-)

[scubadoo97]

When I'm making cold smoked salmon, I first dry well with paper towels to remove as much surface moisture and leave the salmon on a rack in the fridge to dry and form a pellicle overnight

[CatPoet]

I called my father and he said, IF the salmon sits in its own liquid it can re-adsorb it and that makes the salmon horrible salty. So that was what most likely went wrong.

 

He should know , he is great on making grav lax, which is a salt and sugar cured fish.  This is the family recipe for gravlax.

Grav lax.

 

1 kilo salmon,  middle part is to prefer. bone free.

2 teaspoon vitpepper  or black pepper coursly crushed

4 tablespoon salt

4 tablespoon sugar

Dill weed, a lot of Dill weed. ( two hands full or more said dad)

 

Cut the salmon in to two parts. Sandwich the filet meat side towards each other on, make sure they are of equal height. So thin end goes on top thick end.

Now you have the plan, lets start building.  Dry the filet of with a towel. Mix salt, sugar and pepper. Take 1/3 of the mixture and rubs this into both filet.

Lay one filet  in a plastic bag, add half of the dill weed, sprinkle the rest of the salt/sugar over, add the rest of the dill weed and the other place salmon filet  on top as planned.  

Seal the bag  and leave on a plate in the fridge.

Turn the  bag   every 3-4 hours, just so the bottom becomes top and vice versa.  

You can sleep at night, no need to turn then.  This will take two days, if liquid is forming, remove it. 

This is what is making the salmon too salty. the salmon will re-absorb the liquid.  

Clean of the dill and pepper and salt  with a towel or a cloth and then slice in thin slices. Enjoy with   Grav lax sauce or just as they are.

[Smithy]

Thanks very much for that recipe, CatPoet. I love gravlax; your procedure looks a little easier than mine, and I look forward to trying it. However, I think we may be missing a point here: your father says that if the juices are reabsorbed the fish will be salty; andrestorrubia says he vacuum seals the fish. He clearly isn't removing juice before serving. However, he may not be waiting as long. It's also possible that the brown sugar helps draw and hold the fish juices so they can't reabsorb.

andrestorrubia, in addition to my earlier questions, I'll also ask these:

How does your procedure and recipe compare to CatPoet's gravlax recipe?

When your marinated salmon is done, does it have some coating that you rinse or wipe off before serving?

[CatPoet]

But could be just that the juices doesn't   realizes due to being vacuum.  Salty  grav lax is a proof of a lazy chef and also it really important to  get even, so thick with thin end.  Why I dont know but it doesn't taste good when you lay thick with thick..

 

Smithy, grav lax is soul food  from where  my mum comes from, my father learned and ace it, they still argue which pepper it should be,

[andrestorrubia]

Hello, here's how I do it (I have never tasted "real" gravlax so my reference is my own... :-) ):

 

Big piece of salmon, bones out and also skin out so both sides are flesh. Piece should be of equal thickness as much as possible.  Dry with a paper towel (the purpose of drying it is just so residual water doesn't get sucked up by the vacuum sealer).

 

5% of the salmon weight is a mixture of 40% salt (coarse, smoked salt adds a nice touch but not required) and 60% brown sugar.

 

So for example for 1 Kg salmon it's 50 gr of salt/sugar mixture: 20 gr salt, 30 gr brown sugar evenly distributed on both sides.

 

Vacuum seal it and place in the fridge for 2 days. Liquid will start leaking from the salmon, but there is no need to open the bag and take it out (in my experience it does not reabsorb it and if it does there is no ill effect).  I flip sides after 24 hours, but that's it.  A few times I've forgotten and I have not felt the difference.

 

After 2 days (or 3... 4, no huge difference) take it out of the bag, discard (or save) the juice, rinse salmon with water to remove any salt that may be left, pat dry with paper towel and then vacuum seal it again if you plan to keep it for a few weeks.

 

Doing it this way is great and no issues whatsoever.  I've done countless small variations: adding extra dill, pepper, beetroot, juniper, katsuobushi flakes (big winner)... all of them work, it's just a matter of preferences imho.

 

My initial question was triggered by an experiment I which I removed the sugar from the mixture but kept the salt amount... eg. for 1 Kg salmon 20 gr. salt but no sugar. I expected it to be similar to my regular version but turned out to be much saltier.  Juices came out too, although I didn't measure if it was more or less juice than with the regular one.

 

How does my regular version compare to CatPoet's?

 

Mine uses 20 grams of salt, CatPoet's 70 grams

Mine uses 30 grams of sugar, CatPoet's 56 grams

Mine doesn't use dill or pepper

Mine uses vacuum sealing, CatPoet's uses pressure by weight

 

My regular one tastes great, and I am cure CatPoet's does too... I eat mine for breakfast almost daily and I don't cut it in thin slices but more like bites of fish.  I think temperature is key so I place it about 40 seconds in the microwave at 180W so it reaches ~20C (my fridge is 2C and it's way too cold, taste is resented heavily when eating it that cold).

 

The reason I asked in the first place is because I am not use I am eating a lot of salt and the sugar is just masking it (my the salt is there nonetheless).  I think I will try with raw rice as bodin noir suggested.  Also I will try with MSG instead of salt (MSG has 1/3rd sodium compared to salt by weight) 

[andrestorrubia]

I forgot, same exact recipe (except skin is not removed...) works beautifully for bonito:

 

 

...in this one the mixture is the same sal/brown sugar... just add some Katsuobushi flakes (better if you peel it yourself in you have a "block").  

[CatPoet]

Well André, I always been told to remove the liquid and I have eaten salty grav lax from  relatives that are getting  a bit forgetful.  I dont think you need to turn when it vaccum sealed. 

You can do this to other fatty fishes if you want to.  

 

Cant you change setting on your fridge, it too cool for most things.

[boudin noir]

Hello, here's how I do it (I have never tasted "real" gravlax so my reference is my own... :-) ):

 

Big piece of salmon, bones out and also skin out so both sides are flesh. Piece should be of equal thickness as much as possible.  Dry with a paper towel (the purpose of drying it is just so residual water doesn't get sucked up by the vacuum sealer).

 

5% of the salmon weight is a mixture of 40% salt (coarse, smoked salt adds a nice touch but not required) and 60% brown sugar.

 

So for example for 1 Kg salmon it's 50 gr of salt/sugar mixture: 20 gr salt, 30 gr brown sugar evenly distributed on both sides.

 

Vacuum seal it and place in the fridge for 2 days. Liquid will start leaking from the salmon, but there is no need to open the bag and take it out (in my experience it does not reabsorb it and if it does there is no ill effect).  I flip sides after 24 hours, but that's it.  A few times I've forgotten and I have not felt the difference.

 

After 2 days (or 3... 4, no huge difference) take it out of the bag, discard (or save) the juice, rinse salmon with water to remove any salt that may be left, pat dry with paper towel and then vacuum seal it again if you plan to keep it for a few weeks.

 

Doing it this way is great and no issues whatsoever.  I've done countless small variations: adding extra dill, pepper, beetroot, juniper, katsuobushi flakes (big winner)... all of them work, it's just a matter of preferences imho.

 

My initial question was triggered by an experiment I which I removed the sugar from the mixture but kept the salt amount... eg. for 1 Kg salmon 20 gr. salt but no sugar. I expected it to be similar to my regular version but turned out to be much saltier.  Juices came out too, although I didn't measure if it was more or less juice than with the regular one.

 

How does my regular version compare to CatPoet's?

 

Mine uses 20 grams of salt, CatPoet's 70 grams

Mine uses 30 grams of sugar, CatPoet's 56 grams

Mine doesn't use dill or pepper

Mine uses vacuum sealing, CatPoet's uses pressure by weight

 

My regular one tastes great, and I am cure CatPoet's does too... I eat mine for breakfast almost daily and I don't cut it in thin slices but more like bites of fish.  I think temperature is key so I place it about 40 seconds in the microwave at 180W so it reaches ~20C (my fridge is 2C and it's way too cold, taste is resented heavily when eating it that cold).

 

The reason I asked in the first place is because I am not use I am eating a lot of salt and the sugar is just masking it (my the salt is there nonetheless).  I think I will try with raw rice as bodin noir suggested.  Also I will try with MSG instead of salt (MSG has 1/3rd sodium compared to salt by weight)

[boudin noir]

I have not tried the rice. If you do, post the results. I make gravelox often and like to try new options.