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They pretty much went through the whole Johnny Hunter's three day technique on Cooking issues. Didn't mention anything about pH on that episode and I actually don't think the technique has much to do with pH, if any. Instead it's more to do with moisture as I can see it. I heard from a former co-worker that a Michelin-star awarded Finnish chef prepares his black garlic during the services of two days by submerging cloves of garlic in oil in a pan and keeping that pan on top of a hot oven all day. Apparently comes out fine even that way. 

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So episode 231 (as noted by bybyrd) is the one I should listen to, VilleN, to hear all about Johnny Hunter's 3 day technique?

 

As for these shortened techniques, I have to wonder if the outcome is really the same even if the taste, colour (and perhaps even texture) is similar. According to the article mentioned upthread, the nutrient properties change drastically between 5 and 25 and (less so after) 90 days. I guess that may only matter if you care about something other than getting it done fast and/or being able to say one is including 'black garlic' in a special dish - and, I think I may care as much about the reasons it was 'invented' in the first place - which I think also included preservation and health aspects.

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4 hours ago, btbyrd said:

-------------

What are people's favorite recipes/applications using black garlic? -------

So many things you can do with black garlic

 

dcarch

 

Black garlic ice cream

black garlic ice cream.jpg

 

Black & white pasta with black garlic sauce

Pasta black 2 sml.jpgPasta black sml.JPG

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That black garlic ice cream is certainly intriguing. Might be fun to present that to guests who are expecting chocolate ice cream, and serve a few chocolate covered cloves with it.

Edited by Deryn (log)
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They discussed the issue in two Cooking Issues but I don't remember the exact episode right now. Actually had the number and timestamp written down, but can't find it anywhere now that I need it. I'll get back at it when I find the # again. 

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IMG_2418.jpg

 

So the bag came out today - I believe it has had 11 days at 75º C in it's second round. The bag is pretty much fused together - like getting a retort packaged product - I had to cut right up to the garlic to allow me to peel the two sides apart.

 

IMG_2419.jpg

 

IMG_2421.jpg

 

This is a sample of Ontario black garlic - side by side tasting - pretty darn similar - with mine perhaps a bit brighter and fruitier than the sample.  Mine was also pretty uniformly black though and though - apparently if you don't add the drying step in between you won't get that.

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Your garlic looks absolutely amazing, Kerry. Bravo! Is the texture soft or ? Now, if you don't use all of it right away, do you think it needs to be stored in the fridge or would you try storing it as dcarch says he does his - on a shelf in his pantry?

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Texture is kind of sticky/gummy - like a prune. I'll be keeping it at room temperature in a plastic take away container. Might eventually move it to a bottle if I find a stray one around.

 

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9 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

The available water (Aw) is 0.68 - if it were a chocolate centre it would have a shelf life of 6-9 months. Same range as marzipan.

You just gotta love somebody who can pull out a kitchen toy to check the Aw of black garlic!  

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

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30 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

if it were a chocolate centre


:D :D :D

The seed has been planted... my money says it will be just that sometime in the near future.

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It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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@btbyrd 

FWIW, Episode 231 is a Harold McGee show.

Episode 237 is where I found the Jonny Hunter show where they mention the 3-day technique but, as you said, no useful details.

I think you're on the right track with the pH adjustment assumption.

I'm going to order a little bit of the RioRand brand peeled black garlic.

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

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On 6/20/2016 at 4:56 PM, DiggingDogFarm said:

@btbyrd 

FWIW, Episode 231 is a Harold McGee show.

Episode 237 is where I found the Jonny Hunter show where they mention the 3-day technique but, as you said, no useful details.

I think you're on the right track with the pH adjustment assumption.

I'm going to order a little bit of the RioRand brand peeled black garlic.

 

My bad. I had the episode playing in another window and misread the number. I edited my post so that the proper episode is indicated.I was all set to ask about Hunter's recipe on today's episode of CI, but it was a re-run and nobody was in the chatroom by the time I arrived. Next week, maybe? In any event, let me know how you like the RioRand. I've tried three different brands of black garlic... one from Trader Joe's, one from Whole Foods, and the RioRand from Amazon. The RioRand is my favorite by far... giant cloves and no peeling (and no paying for the weight of papery garlic skin). I never had more than one brand in the kitchen at a time, but they all seemed to have the same basic flavor profile.

 

 

On 6/18/2016 at 7:16 PM, dcarch said:

So many things you can do with black garlic

 

Black garlic ice cream

Black & white pasta with black garlic sauce

 

 

Beautiful dishes! Thanks for sharing.

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So I just went through some episodes trying to find the one minute tangent where Dave went through the process. Couldn't find it but pretty sure it was some weeks after the Johnny Hunter episode. Sorry about that. Good idea asking Dave about the three day technique and maybe other relevant information when the show actually airs the next time. 

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On 6/16/2016 at 1:43 PM, Kerry Beal said:

I started with peeled garlic cloves

 

Finally gonna have time to give this a try and would like to check an important detail.  The easy way would be to use store-bought peeled garlic, but I've read the main weakness of the product is that it's blanched, which denatures enzymes.  That's relevant to its flavor generally, though IME easily overcome by using a bit more, but might be a process killer in this application.  What did you use?

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@btbyrd and @VilleN

 

I found Dave's very brief description of Jonny's 3-day technique in the March 1st show — Episode 241 — starting at about 48:50

Dave suggests that they may have Jonny call in to a future show to discuss it further — I don't think that ever happened. :( 

I've listened to all shows up through April — there's nothing more about black garlic.

 

The RioRand arrived yesterday — standard cloves.

It is real good. :smile:

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~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

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Yesterday I drove the long road to see if I could find any Christopher Ranch organic garlic at the grocery store. There were 3 packages, all very 'light' with streaks of black mold (hmm are they already 'black garlic'? just kidding), all containing 3 small bulbs, priced at $3.99 each. All the rest of the garlic around these parts is Chinese (and similarly sad looking right now though a bit less pricey). No thanks. I will wait. I really should have stuck some in the ground last fall and grown my own. As soon as I can get some decent garlic bulbs to plant (perhaps from the farm that Okanagancook linked) a garlic bed will be in my yard.

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So, according the Dave's brief summary, it seems that the 3 day technique basically involves separating cloves from the bulb (but leaving the skins on), spritzing with a bit of water, wrapping in wet-ish paper towels and then in foil, placing the garlic in a crock pot with another wet paper towel (that he keeps wet for the duration), and turning it over once a day for the 3 days.

 

Would be nice to get more specific instructions but at least the method is now uncovered to a certain extent. I would presume that he may also have to add some cover around the top to be sure it is well sealed. My only worry/question would be what temperature the crock pot maintains (for safety's sake more than for producing the blackness, etc.) but I have to guess that it would be set to its hottest temp. Do all crockpots maintain the same 'high' temp?

 

p.s. Next time I am down south I may be tempted to buy this machine: Amazon link to 'Professional Black Garlic Fermenter' .. less than $120 in the US, but I think well over $500 CAD on Amazon's Canadian site last I looked!

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@Deryn

Yes, LOTS of unanswered questions.

 

When Dave uses the term "crockpot" he may just mean 'slow-cooker' in the general sense — as many folks do.

I don't think all brands of slow-cookers operate exactly the same.

 

Anyway, from the Crock-Pot website: 

 

"Crock-Pot® slow-cookers reach the simmer point and stabilize on both "High" and "Low" at about 209°F."

 

"Both "High" and "Low" stabilize at the same temperature; it is just a matter of how long it takes to reach the simmer point. Once food reaches the simmer point, total cook time is dependent on cut and weight of meat to reach the point of maximum flavor and texture potential. Most dishes can be prepared on either "High or "Low.""

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~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

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But, perhaps it was worth repeating, DDF! :) Thanks for that quote from the CrockPot site - I didn't think to look there. Doh me.

 

At any rate, 209 F = just over 98 C which is higher than Kerry (for instance) processed her garlic so I guess 'safe' is guaranteed .. but I would still want to set it to high I think so it would get past any danger zone as quickly as possible (but hey, I am not a food scientist so I am sure others can correct me there).

 

That said, while I am sure the results must have the same taste and texture, etc. as the longer processed ones do (or some would definitely notice the difference and comment), the nutritional changes (which I also think should be considered if one eats black garlic often) may still warrant using the longer method (at least 30 days - or at least to the extent that Kerry took hers). 90 days may be overkill.

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@DiggingDogFarm : Nice find on the Cooking Issues episode... I knew I'd heard it at some point, but it was a double-time last minute blurb at the end of an episode which may or may not have omitted certain details. When I e-mailed, I asked if maybe Hunter would be willing to phone in and give the details, so maybe we'll get the full story on Tuesday.

 

 

2 hours ago, Deryn said:

That said, while I am sure the results must have the same taste and texture, etc. as the longer processed ones do (or some would definitely notice the difference and comment), the nutritional changes (which I also think should be considered if one eats black garlic often) may still warrant using the longer method (at least 30 days - or at least to the extent that Kerry took hers). 90 days may be overkill.

 

 

You might be right, but I'm not sure that longer aging at lower temperatures would make a difference. What's doing the work in either case is enzymatic breakdown and the Maillard reaction, both of which are accelerated at high temperatures. If the flavor and texture are the same with the 3-day method as they are in the 30 day method (and I'm not saying that they are, since I haven't tried it) it is likely that the nutritional results are there too. I doubt we'll see studies on this anytime soon...

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pbear posted this article link a couple of pages upthread: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270653619_Comprehensive_NMR_Analysis_of_Compositional_Changes_of_Black_Garlic_during_Thermal_Processing

 

Quote
ABSTRACT: Black garlic is a processed food product obtained by subjecting whole raw garlic to thermal processing that causes
chemical reactions, such as the Maillard reaction, which change the composition of the garlic. In this paper, we report a nuclear
magnetic resonance (NMR)-based comprehensive analysis of raw garlic and black garlic extracts to determine the compositional
changes resulting from thermal processing.
1
H NMR spectra with a detailed signal assignment showed that 38 components were
altered by thermal processing of raw garlic. For example, the contents of 11
L-amino acids increased during the rst step of
thermal processing over 5 days and then decreased. Multivariate data analysis revealed changes in the contents of fructose,
glucose, acetic acid, formic acid, pyroglutamic acid, cycloalliin, and 5-(hydroxymethyl)furfural (5-HMF). Our results provide
comprehensive information on changes in NMR-detectable components during thermal processing of whole garlic.

 

,,, on and on and on .. it is a fairly comprehensive scientific article/examination with a load of graphs that are semi-interesting as well. But, the basic findings are there ARE changes, beginning with the changes to the allicin content of course however most seem to happen at or after the 5 day point, with most significant changes appearing between 5 and 25 days.

 

Quote
In summary, we characterized the compositional changes of
black garlic through thermal processing using
1
H NMR spectra
combined with multivariate statistical analysis. The PCA score
plot indicated dierences between the raw garlic extracts and
black garlic extracts, although the 25 day black garlic extract was
not clearly distinguished from the over 90 day black garlic extract.
However, the amount of 5-HMF was dierent in the 25 day
extract compared with the over 90 day black garlic extract as
determined by detailed signal assignments. In total, 38 NMR-
visible components in the raw garlic and black garlic extracts were
identied by the present nondestructive NMR method, and the
changes in the content of these compounds, including amino
acids, sugars, organic acids, and other metabolites, were
successfully monitored throughout the thermal processing.
Thermal processing of garlic is important not only for generating
a functional food but also for improving the taste of garlic as a
processed food product. The insights into the changes in
metabolite levels during thermal processing in the present study
shed light on the changes in color, avor, and taste of food
products resulting from the Maillard reaction, browning reaction,
and other reactions caused by thermal treatments

 

I can't find it now (my eyes and brain go nuts trying to read some of these scientific analyses) but somewhere in that article I think there was mentioned something that is very nutritionally beneficial that does not seem to appear till towards the 25 day mark.

 

Hat tip to pbear.

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