Chamber Vacuum Sealers, 2014–

[rotuts]

a P.S. on the jars ;  the bottom of the chamber in the VP-215 is sloped.

 

so unless you make something for the jars to sit on so they are perfectly vertical 

 

the jar will be sloped a little.

 

I took a pic  w the 5.25 " jar :

 

 

its hard to see the slope 

 

but its not as pronounced as I though.

 

make sure you know exactly what bags come with the Henkelman.   100 EU's is signifinact

 

and how many thou get and what they cost viz the ones that you might get for the VP-215

 

they probably are the same  bags.  3 MIL are fine.  Ive never tried a 4 MIL bag

[lemniscate]

I hadn't even considered being able to use canning jars on a vac chamber sealer.   I went off to YouTube, here  and here were the first two I found at top of search.   Another notch on my rationalization list just got punched.

[dscheidt]

I vacuum seal mason jars all the time.  The regular canning sort, with a two piece lid.  Leave the band loose, and air goes out, and when the vacuum is released the lid is firmly held in place by atmospheric pressure.  Jars that are too tall to stand up right can go in on their side.  Obviously,  that doesn't work if they're full of liquids, but for stuff that can take it works great. 

 

 

[Kerry Beal]

I put canning jars in my regular sized Henkelman with the two polycarbonate pieces removed - I can get a liter jar in there with no issue standing. For the big 1800 or 2 liter jars in which I seal freeze dried stuff - I lay them in on their side. 

[MelissaH]

Mind. Blown.

[EsaK]

Awesome, thanks everyone for the replies! Kerry Beal, can I ask what model Henkelman do you have? 

 

I mostly have the Bormioli Rocco jars, which come with a one-piece lid, like this. Am I correct to assume that if you put these in, lids loosely screwed, they'd work the same as two-piece lids? 

 

The question on sealing without a vacuum was because I think it'd be useful at times to be able to for example cut a bag in half to make two smaller ones, simply sealing the cut sides, putting stuff in and pulling a vacuum as usual. So I suppose that works with both machines.

 

Still curious if anyone has views on the pumps being potentially problematic due to "smallness"? And does VP215 have the soft air release? Amongst any other observations you all might have!

[rotuts]

@EsaK

 

Im not sure what ' soft air release ' is

 

can you elaborate ?   and what do you hope that to do for you ?

[EsaK]

Here's Henkelman explaining it quite simply, there's an animated video as well. MC 2-216 & 217 mention it as well, it's I guess basically to protect some delicate products if that's useful, and help in packing sharper things as Henkelman shows. I wonder if it helps with jars and other vessels too to avoid them cracking from rapid release of pressure? No idea about that, just speculating, and happy to hear if someone actually knows!

[horseflesh]

I didn't know you could seal Mason jars in a chamber like that. Cool!

 

That said... I am having a hard time imagining when I would want to do it. Bags are so so cheap. The pint bags I use most often are about 3.5 cents, delivered. You can even use a larger bag than needed for the item, cut off the strip, and re-seal it. You can drop a bag in a sous vide bath and get good thermal transfer to the contents. You can give a bag of leftovers to someone and not worry about getting the jar back. But most importantly, bags only take up as much room as the product inside them, but a jar is always the same size. 

 

If I used jars instead of bags I would not have room in my fridge for my various leftovers right now. And in my freezer, forgetaboutit. 

 

But if jars are top priority, then a cheaper machine with a vacuum hose attachment made for that purpose might be a better choice. An burly chamber sealer with an oil pump, like the 215, would be wasted on jars. IMHO. 

 

Not like I should talk about "wasting" money on potential you don't use. I'm pretty guilty of that!

[EsaK]

Horseflesh, that's all understood  One could go as far as saying that I have no reason to get a sealer at all, there's really no urgent need for it, I've been quite alright SVing without one to date. But if I get a sealer, it's going to be a chamber one. I want to be able to play with it, try different sorts of things that you can do with a chamber vac but can't do with a normal vacuum sealer. It's a lot of money though, which is why I'm asking all of the questions to see if I could make a choice that really suits me..  

[rotuts]

to my eye , the video on soft seal , the scallops look the same

 

with each method.

 

its been Buzz'd around various decent food sites , that high vacuum 

 

i.e. the almost max you can get w the VP-215 , w the dial indicator between the last mark

 

and the second to the last mark on the dial , 

 

might damage delicate foods , i.e. soft fish , maybe scallops

 

can say myself , but some feel a bit less vacuum might benefit items like these

 

@horseflesh

 

makes some interesting points on bags vs jars

 

BTW

 

@EsaK

 

why do you want to use jars ?

 

and I think the Vacuum-Jar thing might only work w jars that have two part lids :

 

ie canning jars.  you same the screw on part year to year , and use a fresh flat contact lid

 

each time you ' Can '

 

 

 

[Kerry Beal]

1 hour ago, EsaK said:

Awesome, thanks everyone for the replies! Kerry Beal, can I ask what model Henkelman do you have? 

 

I mostly have the Bormioli Rocco jars, which come with a one-piece lid, like this. Am I correct to assume that if you put these in, lids loosely screwed, they'd work the same as two-piece lids? 

 

The question on sealing without a vacuum was because I think it'd be useful at times to be able to for example cut a bag in half to make two smaller ones, simply sealing the cut sides, putting stuff in and pulling a vacuum as usual. So I suppose that works with both machines.

 

Still curious if anyone has views on the pumps being potentially problematic due to "smallness"? And does VP215 have the soft air release? Amongst any other observations you all might have!

Mine is a Gastrovac. Bought used from a closing deli.  No soft release or other gases.

 

Those jars should work - might be a struggle to loosen. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Kerry Beal (log)

[horseflesh]

Makes sense. I think there's a good chance you'll really enjoy it, whether you standardize on jars or bags. I use mine CONSTANTLY and a couple of friends have them now too, after seeing mine. 

 

I do really think that an oil pump is worth the extra dough. The 215 is a nice unit, I almost got it, then decided to go crazy and buy something even more expensive.

 

[EsaK]

@rotutsI don't know all the reasons I'd use jars, but I can imagine I'd use them quite regularly even for things that don't really need to be in a pouch. For example pickles? Or some custard that you want to get the air out of and cook in the jar. There's probably quite a few things.  

 

@Kerry Beal Alright, I can't find that model from Henkelman's website now. Thanks about the jars, I imagined they should work but yes, may be tough to open. A bit of knife helps I guess though. 

[rotuts]

@EsaK

 

find out exactly what bags the Henkelman rep is throwing in for your final price.

 

find out what they cost if you were getting them yourself.

 

and BTW  and assortment of smaller bags  seems nice

 

such as this :

 

https://vacuumsealersunlimited.com/shop/commercial-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-pouches/3-mil-chamber-bags/300-chamber-bag-combo-pack/

 

seem attractive to try , but for the home user , unless you do 1000 little bags a day

 

get the two sizes I recommend  and cut the larger bag to smaller.  much cheaper that way.

 

add up the final true price for each machine , + a healthy supply of bags

 

500 of each of the two sizes is Healthy , 1000 is better.    ' a life time supply '

 

and no more added shipping charges , which are significant for 500 bags , also for a LifeTime.

 

then if the difference is small , or it doesnt matte to you for the long run , get the one w better service

 

which you might not need, hopefully

 

either one you will love.

 

200 EU's should be 4 lifetimes of bags

[horseflesh]

Looks like Vacuum Sealers Unlimited dropped their prices, last time I ordered I swear free shipping was not included. Cool. 

 

I use this size mostly, 6" x 10". 

 

https://vacuumsealersunlimited.com/shop/commercial-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-pouches/3-mil-chamber-bags/6-x-10-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-case-of-1000/

 

In a quantity of 1000 that is about 3.1 cents per bag, shipped. That is so cheap I use them without hesitation. 

 

If I bought a bag twice as long with the idea of cutting it in half and making 2 bags... Here is a 6" x 20" bag. 

 

https://vacuumsealersunlimited.com/shop/commercial-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-pouches/3-mil-chamber-bags/6-x-20-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-case-of-1000/

 

These guys are about 6.8 cents each, so by cutting them in half, you aren't actually saving anything.

 

What I am getting at is this: As far as I can see, when you buy in bulk the cost of a bag is roughly proportional to the size of the bag. Every time I look at the prices, what makes the most sense to me is to buy the right sized bags and use them as-is. And if there was a discount for bigger sizes it would be a small savings, and not worth the extra work of cutting them down and extra sealing. 

 

Where I break this rule is when I want to work with something like a huge block of cheese. I don't want to spend an extra 7 cents every time I use some cheese, so I use an oversized 10 cent gallon bag, cut off the seal, and re-seal it. I do this for some things I have frozen too, like bulk spices. I will also make a small bag into a TINY bag, if needed, so I don't have to stock a million sizes. 

 

Anyway, after well over 1000 cycles  in my 12" machine, this is the set of bags that works for me. 

 

3 mil 6 x 10 @ 3.1 cents -- most commonly used size and I would NOT buy anything smaller without a special need. Need it smaller once in a while? Place it so the seal bar cuts it down when you use it. 

https://vacuumsealersunlimited.com/shop/commercial-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-pouches/3-mil-chamber-bags/6-x-10-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-case-of-1000/

 

3 mil 10 x 12 @ 6.8 cents -- used about half as much as the 6 x 10, still a real workhorse.

https://vacuumsealersunlimited.com/shop/commercial-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-pouches/3-mil-chamber-bags/10-x-12-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-case-of-1000/

 

3 mil 12 x 15 @ 9.4 cents -- giant gallon bag, my least used size at 5-10%, but when you need it you need it.

https://vacuumsealersunlimited.com/shop/commercial-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-pouches/3-mil-chamber-bags/12-x-15-chamber-vacuum-sealer-bags-case-of-500/

 

At 3 mil I do get a puncture once in a blue moon when I press my luck... but when that happens I double-bag it and re-seal. It's worth eating the cost of another bag once in a great while compared to the cost of keeping thicker bags on hand.

 

I wish the more exotic bags like mylar, stand-ups, and clear front/gold back bags were cheaper. They also have retort bags which lets you seal and then do a pressure canner heat cycle to sterilize, which sounds cool... but I cannot find any home-use time and temperature instructions, and the bags are super expensive at $0.45 each in 16 oz. 

 

YMMV. 

[rotuts]

Im pleased they have free shipping on smaller quantities of bags

 

it used to be only on 1,000.

 

Ill look into a re-supply on Monday.

 

thanks for the tips.

[rotuts]

BTW  when I mentioned cutting bag to smaller sizes

 

it was not for the savings

 

but to eliminate the clutter of so many bag sizes.

 

my two  : 8 x 10 , and 10 x 13 do all that I want them to do

 

and cutting the 10 x 13  just give me a smaller ' tall ' bag for certain things

 

like bagging fresh ground herbs , and then freezing them and using them right out

 

of the freezer , and then re-sealing that same bag.

 

an example for me would be 

 

Bells' seasoning , 

 

 

its freshest just before Thanksgiving  ( 2 weeks before )

 

and on sale.

 

I get a years worth every year.

 

I love this on turkey and chicken

 

why ?  that's how i grew up.

[teonzo]

3 hours ago, EsaK said:

I mostly have the Bormioli Rocco jars, which come with a one-piece lid, like this. Am I correct to assume that if you put these in, lids loosely screwed, they'd work the same as two-piece lids? 

 

I can assure that the Bormioli jars work fine, used them many times with no troubles. Can't compare with the two-piece lids, never tried since I never saw them here (Bormioli is almost a monopoly). Closing jars with the vacuum chamber is useful for lots of things: dry cookies; coffee beans; tea; rice. The only cost is the electricity, if you used bags then you spent much more money. Using jars is best when you risk damaging the things you are sealing after the compression (many dry cookies would break and crumble, for example).

 

One thing on the vacuum chamber sealer: better spending a little more and be safe, than saving money and be sorry after a bit. When you have one you will find much more uses for it than what you are thinking now. If you buy a cheap / small one then you are going to regret it.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[rotuts]

@EsaK

 

I think both Vac's you are looking at are

 

durable high end machines.

 

Look at your total costs   machine + bags.  bags that have been mentioned here

 

not a bunch of smaller bags etc

 

Im guessing that the Henkelman's is going to cost you a bit more.

 

I don't think you are stopping up that much for the Henkelman

 

im my personal Voyage  

 

re: hardware :  mostly computers , but hard-stuff is what you plan to keep for more

 

than a while.  always looked at the the Mac's , decided if I found it that much more useful

 

than the one I had , and if so  looked at the minimal , back then they always and three

 

the minimal would have suited me fine , but after thinking about how long I expected to have this version

 

I bought the middle one, not the top of the line which didn't really add anting significant 

 

and an interesting price hike

 

so :

 

look at your total cost , delivered to you

 

and then Id say , you really like the Henkelman a bit more

 

if you can affor the total difference :

 

there is a Henkeman w your name on it !

 

and you would greatly enjoy it Id say

[Kerry Beal]

8 hours ago, EsaK said:

@rotutsI don't know all the reasons I'd use jars, but I can imagine I'd use them quite regularly even for things that don't really need to be in a pouch. For example pickles? Or some custard that you want to get the air out of and cook in the jar. There's probably quite a few things.  

 

@Kerry Beal Alright, I can't find that model from Henkelman's website now. Thanks about the jars, I imagined they should work but yes, may be tough to open. A bit of knife helps I guess though. 

It's actually labelled Compact Gastrovac Pro - but Henkovac.nl manufactures it (and they appear to be some sort of subsidiary of Henkelman)

Edited August 4, 2019 by Kerry Beal (log)

[EsaK]

@teonzo May I ask what machine do you have?

 

Now I also found Hendi, not sure if anyone has heard anything about their chamber vacs? Here's an example. Hendi's website says the pump is "air cooled", the manual mentions oil levels in the pump though. I wonder if anyone knows whether that "air cooled" means dry or oil pump? I assume oil since oil in the pump is mentioned in the manual, but not really certain.. Or this one with stronger pump.

 

I've emailed different suppliers to ask about shipping costs, decision-time soon I hope.

 

 

[Anna N]

9 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

It's actually labelled Compact Gastrovac Pro

I’d expect to find something with a name like that on the crash cart in Emerg. 

[teonzo]

3 hours ago, EsaK said:

 May I ask what machine do you have? 

 

I don't have one at home (I cook simple things at home so I have few toys). I used many at work, can't remember the name / models sorry. I never found much difference between different producers, so I wouldn't mind much about that. The two factors are how big the chamber is and how powerful the pump is.

You need a powerful pump to make a better vacuum (the stronger the pump, the nearer to 100% vacuum you get), to save on time and electricity, to save money on the long term since a powerful pump will last much more time.

You need a big chamber to be versatile and save costs. If you have a small chamber then you are not able to do many things, like compressing a whole (peeled) pineapple, which is a nice showstopper if you have guests for dinner. With a small chamber you can use only small jars, which means that in many cases you will be forced to use 2 or more jars while you could use a single big one with a bigger machine. More jars mean higher costs: two 0.25 liter jars cost more than one 0.5 liter jar; two machine cicles cost more than one cicle. Same with bags. Saving 50 cents here and 50 cents there means that after some time you repay the difference for the bigger machine.

I suppose youare an adventurous cook, so there will be many more uses for this machine. You can make the "bubble chocolate": you put tempered chocolate in a big container, put it in the vacuum chamber machine, pull the vacuum at maximum power, than turn off the machine (leaving it closed without decompressing, so the chocolate has time to set while expanded). If you have unwanted bubbles in a batter / whatelse then you can just put it in a open container and then run it in the machine. This is useful for ganaches, for fluid gels, for things that you thickened with xantan gum.

For liquids, you want a big step from the chamber floor to the sealing unit. Small machines have a low step, this means you will get mad with the liquid overflowing out of the bag.

A big machine costs more than a small machine at the beginning, but after some time (2-3 years at home use I suppose) it costs less.

 

Be careful to read ALL the details in the manual. The oil in the pump must be changed after some time, don't start thinking "I can go on some more", you risk ruining the pump (a new pump costs much much more than an oil change). You need to be careful (or better, to avoid) putting hot liquids or things with fine powders (you risk to clog the pump). Read what button combination you need to follow to avoid the sealing unit going on: if you use jars, stuff in open containers, things that do not need to be sealed, then it's better to avoid the sealing cycle (less costs). Beware to NOT TOUCH the sealing unit when you pick a bag, it's HOT.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[teonzo]

42 minutes ago, Anna N said:

I’d expect to find something with a name like that on the crash cart in Emerg. 

 

I prefer to not know what happens during the decompression cycle.

 

 

 

Teo