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Making a Panade


Shel_B
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I've found the fine-textured sandwich-type bread tends to break down and turns pasty in a panade, making for a denser end-product, whereas open-structured 'rustic' type breads, with a hard crust and a very resilient, chewy crumb retain their texture a lot more, and make for a less compact whatever-you're-using-your-panade-in.

It seems that you include the crust when making a panade with this type of bread, yes?

I don't always use the crust, but doesn't seem to make a tremendous difference one way or the other.

Michaela, aka "Mjx"
Manager, eG Forums
mscioscia@egstaff.org

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I cannot read the whole recipe but what is Italian in this recipe? The fact that is served with pasta? Sorry, but sometimes I get very annoyed.

Looks like a pretty generic meat sauce. Olive oil, garlic, tomatoes and tomato paste, oregano. What would it take to make it Italian enough? It might not be terribly authentic, but it seems more Italian to me than anything else.

I can imagine that US Italian is laughable to a real Italian. What is it that is missing?

Sorry guys, maybe I was in a bad mood yesterday, I apologize. Didn't want to sound obnoxious.

You know gfweb what bothered me, honestly? Oregano. Americans but oregano in all italian recipes. I would never use dry oregano in a meat and mushroom sauce.

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""" Americans [put] oregano in all italian recipes. """

dried oregano is required in all Italian-American Rx's

that's the key to making them I-A.

:biggrin:

Franci : maybe you could take some night classes in I-A cooking, just to get the hang of it

:biggrin:

:wink:

Edited by rotuts (log)
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Franci, at least you now live around your countrymen and can share a laugh about how Americans think they know Italian cooking while you are shopping at the authentic Italian shops.

Edited by annabelle (log)
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I usually use cheap old hot dog or hamburger rolls. If they are bit stale all the better. They break apart into a fine crumb very easily so that my panade is very smooth. Some of the sandwich breads, like those from Orowheat tend to be sort of gummy when I try to use them for crumbs and form dense little balls when mixed with the milk.

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I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.

- W. C. Fields

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My Nana and Mom both swore by Italian water rolls (a New York/Long Island thing in the '50's) for stuffing, and I've always sworn that Nana made the BEST! Rolls made with milk get gooey and don't taste quite "right".

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"Commit random acts of senseless kindness"

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My Nana and Mom both swore by Italian water rolls (a New York/Long Island thing in the '50's) for stuffing, and I've always sworn that Nana made the BEST! Rolls made with milk get gooey and don't taste quite "right".

I've never heard of Italian water rolls, and I grew up in NY and Long Island in the fifties. Can you explain what they are?

 ... Shel


 

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My Nana and Mom both swore by Italian water rolls (a New York/Long Island thing in the '50's) for stuffing, and I've always sworn that Nana made the BEST! Rolls made with milk get gooey and don't taste quite "right".

Correct, and if you make passatelli in brodo or pisarei e faso' (little bread crumbs gnocchi with beans) never use "pane condito", bread with oil or fat.

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Shel, as far as I can remember, they're simple flour, water and salt dough. No fat, eggs or sugar, either.

OK - thanks! And that brings me to a question about using a panade in making sauces, in this case a meat sauce. If bread is made with flour and water, why use bread at all in a sauce? Couldn't a mixture of flour and water be added in place of bread?

 ... Shel


 

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Shel, I think it's the textural thing! Would you rather eat raw bread dough (perhaps poached woul be the better word) with mostly water for moisture, or baked dough, with the water driven off thru baking, then replaced by fat and juices from the sauce?

"Commit random acts of senseless kindness"

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Shel, I think it's the textural thing! Would you rather eat raw bread dough (perhaps poached woul be the better word) with mostly water for moisture, or baked dough, with the water driven off thru baking, then replaced by fat and juices from the sauce?

I see the point you're making, and I agree with the example you gave, but .... if you make something like a roux, using flour, milk, and the fat from the meat, wouldn't the bread then be "cooked" and lose its raw flavor and texture? And then serve the same purpose as a panade?

 ... Shel


 

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There are loads of chemical changes that take place during baking: proteins break down at 65C, Maillard reactions begin at 110C, sugars caramelize at 140... There is a sort of continuum of thickeners: raw flour, cooked to denature the proteins so the can absorb water and gelatinize, stuff like Wondra, basically precooked flour, and bread which brings along tons of other tasty chemicals.

Note that roux made with only flour and fat is often cooked until it browns.

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