Do the pasteurizing times on Douglas Baldwin's website also kill parasites?

[Jenny Ngo]

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html

• Table 3.1: Pasteurization Times for Fish
• Table 4.1: Pasteurization Times for Poultry
• Table 5.1: Pasteurization Times for Meat (Beef, Pork, and Lamb)

Will these pasteurization times also kill beef/pork/fish parasites such as trichinea, tape worms, Anisakis, etc.?

For example, lets take Beef or Pork. Would cooking them (5mm thickness) at 131F for 2 hours eliminate all parasites?

[rotuts]

"""

Posted 11 February 2008 - 07:19 PM

The 2005 FDA food code goes down to 130F/55C for most meats - there are time & temperature tables. There is no problem with 130F.

If you have an intact muscle - i.e. steak or roast - then FDA does not specify any minimum internal temperature - just that the exterior must be brought to 145F/63C.

Of course serving carpaccio is legal, as is warm carpaccio. According to FDA you have 4 hours between 40F/4C and 140F/60C. So if you wanted to serve beef at 100F/38C you could, so long the total amount of time it spends above 40F/4C is less than 4 hours.

Those are official guidelines. They are conservative

Pragmatically speaking I routinely cook at 122F to 125F for red meat for many hours. That is both technically legit up to 4 hours. Beyond 4 hours there is scientific data that would say that 125F is more than enough, and certainly 127F - which is why the conservative FDA sets it at 130F.

However, usually when I am cooking for a very long time, I use 130F because you want the highest temp you can for denaturing collagen. At 125F the times would be substantially longer than at 130F.

That is all red meat. Other things get lower tempertures. I cook Fish down to 100F/38C, but I do not do that for very long (certainly less than 4 hours). """

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/144257-sous-vide-recipes-techniques-equipment-part-3/page-14#entry1531718

from nathanm.

[Jenny Ngo]

"""

Posted 11 February 2008 - 07:19 PM

The 2005 FDA food code goes down to 130F/55C for most meats - there are time & temperature tables. There is no problem with 130F.

If you have an intact muscle - i.e. steak or roast - then FDA does not specify any minimum internal temperature - just that the exterior must be brought to 145F/63C.

Of course serving carpaccio is legal, as is warm carpaccio. According to FDA you have 4 hours between 40F/4C and 140F/60C. So if you wanted to serve beef at 100F/38C you could, so long the total amount of time it spends above 40F/4C is less than 4 hours.

Those are official guidelines. They are conservative

Pragmatically speaking I routinely cook at 122F to 125F for red meat for many hours. That is both technically legit up to 4 hours. Beyond 4 hours there is scientific data that would say that 125F is more than enough, and certainly 127F - which is why the conservative FDA sets it at 130F.

However, usually when I am cooking for a very long time, I use 130F because you want the highest temp you can for denaturing collagen. At 125F the times would be substantially longer than at 130F.

That is all red meat. Other things get lower tempertures. I cook Fish down to 100F/38C, but I do not do that for very long (certainly less than 4 hours). """

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/144257-sous-vide-recipes-techniques-equipment-part-3/page-14#entry1531718

from nathanm.

Thanks, I understand these pasteurization times work for bacteria but do they also work to kill parasites?

(Such as trichinea, tape worms, Anisakis, etc.)

[gfweb]

CDC says 160 degrees for traditional cooking to kill Trichinella. If you plan of cooking steak or pork to that temp, you might as well not do sous vide because the meat would be terribly overcooked.

I'm not aware of time/temp curves for parasite killing.

I believe that freezing will kill trichinella.

Worth looking into if you have meat from a questionable source (eg wild game)

[jmolinari]

I had once found a study on trichinella destruction, and i remember it listed 138 deg F for like 15 minutes..but i can't find the source now...searching.

Foudn it:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fs153

Edited February 4, 2014 by jmolinari (log)

[rotuts]

good ref.

130 for 30 minutes also does the trick. internal temp.

I cant see how this might be different for other protozoa or roundworms etc

[Martin Fisher]

"Trichinella spiralis is killed in 47 minutes at 52° C (125.6° F), in 6 minutes at 55° C (131° F), and in < 1 minute at 60° C (140° F)."

[rotuts]

"" "Trichinella spiralis is killed in 47 minutes at 52° C (125.6° F),""

i like this. i like rare pork, but am not really concerned about T.s.

[gfweb]

"" "Trichinella spiralis is killed in 47 minutes at 52° C (125.6° F),""

i like this. i like rare pork, but am not really concerned about T.s.

But if you had some wild boar...

Edited February 4, 2014 by gfweb (log)

[rotuts]

nope. Con-Agra raised USA Pork. Loin. ( not tenderloin ) carefully trimmed of the tough bits w a razor sharp knife

then SV 125. for sandwiches

frozen En Pouche´ after a rapid cool-down.

razor thin ( many layers ) in a sandwich.

Edited February 4, 2014 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

re: rare pork

at one of my local super-markets they have bone-less 'country-style' ribs from time to time. 3 lbs packs

with patience 1.79 / lbs.

I carefully work them over with my two buddies ( nameless so far ) :

the smaller one gets more use for this. they are from Granton GB

razor sharp. I like knife work done before the item hits the plate.

Weber is preheated to hot hot hot.

the seasoned 'ribs' are put on until a bit of crust on each side

rested then cut razor thin. the inner temp has to be much lower than 125

but sliced very thin. still warm. on a sandwich?

heaven on earth.

Edited February 4, 2014 by rotuts (log)

[Jenny Ngo]

I had once found a study on trichinella destruction, and i remember it listed 138 deg F for like 15 minutes..but i can't find the source now...searching.

Foudn it:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fs153

good ref.

130 for 30 minutes also does the trick. internal temp.

I cant see how this might be different for other protozoa or roundworms etc

"Trichinella spiralis is killed in 47 minutes at 52° C (125.6° F), in 6 minutes at 55° C (131° F), and in < 1 minute at 60° C (140° F)."

Hey thanks for all the replies.

So pasteurizing using Douglas's charts does eliminate the parasite threat.

I've been reading up on this and also found that Douglas also implies this:

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/118193-fish-sterilization-temps-for-tapeworm-larvae/?p=1596443

Parasites consumed in unfrozen seafood that is uncooked or undercooked present a human health hazard, although one that is much less significant than the risk of illness from bacteria and viruses. The process of heating raw fish sufficiently to kill bacterial pathogens is also sufficient to kill parasites. . . . Parasites in finfish are an emerging issue in industrialized countries and must be considered because of the increase in popularity of fish products that are typically eaten raw. . . . Wild-caught Pacific salmon (Oncorhynchus spp.) should be considered to have A. simplex larvae present (67), and prevalence may exceed 75% in various types of fresh U.S. commercial wild salmon (27).

So, from a food safety perspective, it really isn't advisable to cook salmon `mi-cuit'. While it may not be as tasty, I would recommend pasteurizing all fish at the temperatures and times I posted up thread (in post #2011).

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html

"...While salmon mi-cuit is a popular among sous vide enthusiast, it should never be served to immune compromised individuals. The low cooking temperatures in this recipe are not sufficient to reduce the number of foodborne pathogens or parasites. Since the prevalence of the parasite Anisakids simplex may exceed 75% in various types of fresh U.S. commercial wild salmon (National Advisory Committee on Microbiological Criteria for Food, 2008), I recommend either freezing the fish (below –4°F/–20°C for at least 24 hours) to kill the parasites or pasteurizing the fish using the times and temperatures in Table 3.1...."