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David Hensley

What sauces do you consider the "Mother Sauces"?

45 posts in this topic

The patissiere is in reference to his proclamation as a pastry Chef. Nevermind that he makes his cakes from boxes...always...everytime. "Why should I make something, when Duncan Hines does the work?"

I just talked to him, and he got the tattoo done like that, because viniagrette "looked" better than tomato...

I love this guy dearly...but the ball-busting is truly about to begin...LMAO

OMG. Please bust his balls a little extra for me.

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So I shall, pastrygirl!

I really like your own classes of sauce for pastry...It reminds me of the thoughts I had in culinary school, before my instructors reminded me that I was NOT Escoffier, and likely never would be...

Is this something you devised of your own accord?


I'm a lifelong professional chef. If that doesn't explain some of my mental and emotional quirks, maybe you should see a doctor, and have some of yours examined...

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Hmmm, "Quote" button is not cooperating tonight! Annabelle, the sauce with blood orange is Maltaise, but on the others, I should know, but I don't. %(

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"Commit random acts of senseless kindness"

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So I shall, pastrygirl!

I really like your own classes of sauce for pastry...It reminds me of the thoughts I had in culinary school, before my instructors reminded me that I was NOT Escoffier, and likely never would be...

Is this something you devised of your own accord?

It's not a code I live by or anything, just answering the question in the title :)

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Quite a good answer! Why wouldn't you live by it?


I'm a lifelong professional chef. If that doesn't explain some of my mental and emotional quirks, maybe you should see a doctor, and have some of yours examined...

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The sauce consisting of hollandaise and whipped cream is a sauce Royale....

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I'm a lifelong professional chef. If that doesn't explain some of my mental and emotional quirks, maybe you should see a doctor, and have some of yours examined...

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The 5 'Classical' mother sauces are :

Béchamel

Espagnole

Hollandaise

Tomato

Velouté

This comes from my training manual's at Le Cordon Bleu.

Vinaigrette is NOT a mother sauce.

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That has been the argument, chefbryn. Escoffier and Careme say it is.

I had said that tomat was not a mother sauce and was corrected upthread. It was added by Escoffier to Antonin Careme's five Mother Sauces, which included vinaigrette. So, we were both right depending on which century we were speaking of.

In this case, Le Cordon Bleu or your instructors are inaccurate.

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As I understand it, in L'art de la Cuisine, Careme said:

Veloute

Bechamel

Espagnole

Allemande

and in Le Guide Culinaire, Escoffier said nah, Allemande's just a derivative of Veloute, and changed it to:

Veloute

Bechamel

Espagnole

Hollandaise

Tomate

Just call me Wikibot.


Edited by Blether (log)
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QUIET!  People are trying to pontificate.

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Hey, Blether. Wikipedia includes vinaigrette, citing Careme and Escoffier both.

This is a chicken and egg sort of a discussion. I've seen it both ways, vinaigrette and no vinaigrette.


Edited by annabelle (log)

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As far as I am aware, Blether is correct in his assertion from primary sources (oh how I resisted using a pun there).

Wikipedia is subject to the vagaries of contributors and thus must be approached sceptically and definitely not used as an evidence base. Even so, I'm left wondering where on this page on mother sauces or this page on vinaigrettes is it included as a mother sauce.


Edited by nickrey (log)

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four.
Unless there are three other people." Orson Welles
My eG Foodblog

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Interesting that people quote Wikipedia for a reference, why not go to the source and end it. From Escoffier's Guide to Modern Cookery

The

Principal Kinds of Fonds de Cuisine (Foundation

Sauces and

Stocks)

The

principal kinds of fonds de cuisine are :—

1.

Ordinary and clarified consommes.

2.

The brown stock or " estouffade," game stocks, the bases

of

thickened gravies and of brown sauces.

3.

White stock, basis of white sauces.

4.

Fish stock.

5.

The various essences of poultry, game, fish, &c., the

complements

of small sauces.

6.

The various glazes : for meat, game, and poultry.

7.

The basic sauces : Espagnole,- Veloute, Bechamel,

Tomato,

and Hollandaise.

8.

The savoury jellies or aspics of old-fashioned cooking.

To

these kinds of stock, which, in short, represent the

buttresses of the

culinary edifice, must now be added the following

preparations,

which are, in a measure, the auxiliaries of

the

above :

1.

The roux, the cohering element in sauces.

2.

The " Mirepoix " and " Matignon " aromatic and

flavouring elements.

3.

The " Court-Bouillon " and the " Blancs."

4.

The various stuffings.

5.

The marinades.

6.

The various garnishes for soups, for relev^s, for entries,

&c.

("Duxelle," " Duchesse," " Dauphine," Pate a choux,

frying

batters, various Salpicons, Profiteroles, Royales CEufs

fil6s,

Diablotins, Pastes, &c.).

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Interesting that people quote Wikipedia for a reference, why not go to the source and end it. From Escoffier's Guide to Modern Cookery...

No, I won't justify my love for Wikipedia.

Aristotle has a lot to answer for, and what's more, that was an awful long quote for one wee snippet. Was that to cover up the fact you only own half a library ? :wink:


Edited by Blether (log)
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QUIET!  People are trying to pontificate.

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The sauce consisting of hollandaise and whipped cream is a sauce Royale....

I've only ever heard it called a sauce mousseline.


Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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I do believe you are correct...

Royale is Hollandaise, whipped cream and Veloute. As a sauce its a Royale, or used under a broiler, its a Glacage, I believe.

My mistake...


I'm a lifelong professional chef. If that doesn't explain some of my mental and emotional quirks, maybe you should see a doctor, and have some of yours examined...

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So, I have to ask...

Are we creating and defining a new mother sauce, or what? I really appreciated all of the responses that you all gave, but we still lack consensus...

Honestly, I tend to think of mayonnaise as a sauce, more so than vinaigrette. I'm also a savory Chef, primarily, so I cast my vote for a new hot sauce...rather than another cold one.

Any backers? Any fighters? I feel like we should discuss this further...


I'm a lifelong professional chef. If that doesn't explain some of my mental and emotional quirks, maybe you should see a doctor, and have some of yours examined...

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I think we've pretty much hashed it out. There's not much to discuss beyond the vinaigrette thing. I don't think any of us who answered your original question were looking to try to establish a new list or addition. Even if we did, it would only have relevance within this discussion. It wouldn't change what's already established and accepted by the culinary world in general.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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The one that always seems out of place to me is Veloute. What is it but a Bechamel, with stock substituting for milk?

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Ruth Dondanville aka "ruthcooks"

“Are you making a statement, or are you making dinner?” Mario Batali

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I always wondered the same, Ruth....


I'm a lifelong professional chef. If that doesn't explain some of my mental and emotional quirks, maybe you should see a doctor, and have some of yours examined...

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For what it's worth I notice Moderist Cuisine's definition of mother sauces follows Careme.

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