Looking for Japanese sujihiki/knife

[usermot]

Hi All,

I am a new member of this forum and will very appriciate your help and advices.

I am a home cook and considering to add the sujihiki / slicer knife to my home kitchen knife set.

There are two candidates currently in my list: Hattori FH-12(230mm)/13(270mm) sujihiki and Masamoto KS 240mm/270mm slicer.

The knife will be not used very often (Hattori FH 240mm Gyuto is my general use knife). I am planing to use this knife mainly for special purposes: sushi preparation, salmon european style slicing and meat cutting / slicing. The meat and fish pieces about 1-2.5 kg.

I have a few questions before I made my decision:

- Are there any advantages of White 2 steel over VG10 in matter of edge retention and sharpening?

- My another question is about a knife size. What is the prefer size for sujihiki / slicer for purposes described above?

- Is there any advantage of slicer / sujihiki for my needs described above over Hattori FH Gyuto 240mm, that is relatively narrow?

Perhaps someone has experience with both this knives and can compare one to another. It will be very helpful information and I'll appreciate it.

I would also be glad if you have suggestions of other worthwhile suji knives in the same price range.

Thanks in advance,

Roman

Edited November 16, 2013 by usermot (log)

[Dakki]

-Hitachi White (shirogami) are carbon steels, VG-10 is stainless. The VG-10 has pretty great edge-holding so the difference in that aspect will be academic. The carbon will be easier to sharpen, and have an advantage in taking a highly-polished edge, if and only if you have the appropriate eq. Additionally, many people prefer an edge that is not so highly polished in slicers. VG-10 does have a bit of a rep for chipping out when used by, er, medium quality manufacturers such as Shun, but that will not apply to Hattori.

-270mm works for me, but I'm just a home cook. If you're slicing up a whole tuna, you'll need one of those specialized, katana-sized knives.

-A chef's/gyuto will do pretty much anything the slicer can do, but some tasks are easier with the slicer. You'll have to decide if it's worth the investment for yourself.

Hattori has a reputation for doing VG-10 just a little better than anyone else, so if I was set on Japanese stainless they'd probably be my first choice (right now, ask again tomorrow). That said, I'd probably go for a good carbon steel (not necessarily the Masamoto, or even Japanese).

[scubadoo97]

I have a 270 Tojiro DP suji and use it as you described. I put a very asymmetric edge on it which makes it glide through fish. It's my dirty pseudo yanagi. At the time it was only about $60 or so

[usermot]

Dakki, thank you very much for your very informative answer!

I am home cook too, so I considered a smaller slicer size But 270mm-240mm is not huge difference. Will go for the bigger one.

My current sharpening setup consist of Atoma diamond 400, Sapton Pro 1000 and Sapton Pro 5000. Is it appropriate eq for taking a highly-polished edge on carbon steel?

I already have very nice basic Hattori FH set: Gyuto 240mm, Petty 150mm and Parer 70mm. And very happy with it. I don't sharpen the knives to often, but use Minosharp Plus 3 for honing it between sharps.

What good carbon steel knives can you recommend?

Roman

[Twyst]

I would also be glad if you have suggestions of other worthwhile suji knives in the same price range.

Konosuke HD, Ridiculously thin, easy to sharpen, takes an extremely sharp edge and holds it well, and is semi stainless.

I'd go with a 270, I have a 240 suji and often wish fr a tad more length when slicing fish.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Twyst (log)

[Dakki]

Dakki, thank you very much for your very informative answer!

I am home cook too, so I considered a smaller slicer size But 270mm-240mm is not huge difference. Will go for the bigger one.

My current sharpening setup consist of Atoma diamond 400, Sapton Pro 1000 and Sapton Pro 5000. Is it appropriate eq for taking a highly-polished edge on carbon steel?

I already have very nice basic Hattori FH set: Gyuto 240mm, Petty 150mm and Parer 70mm. And very happy with it. I don't sharpen the knives to often, but use Minosharp Plus 3 for honing it between sharps.

What good carbon steel knives can you recommend?

Roman

You're good with the stones. If you want to improve on what you have, I'd suggest a 3K of your choice (1 to 5K is kind of a big leap), and the Chosera 10K which is nearly legendary for kitchen knives. Anything over that and you're in straight razor territory.

Call me crazy but for the money ($300ish?) I'd think about checking out Bladeforums and Knifeforums (or British Blades if you're in the UK) and see if there's a 'smith whose work really appeals to me. I might end up spending a little extra but that just means making excuses to the landlady for another month, right?

Bill Burke is a current favorite for me (check this out), but nobody calls me subtle. There's a ton of talented makers out there, each with their own style. It would be worth really studying the market, see whose styles you like and who has a good rep.

[dcarch]

I am sure you already know, two most important considerations before you spend big money for special knives.

You must have good knife techniques and a good cutting board, and you must be very good in sharpening skills and expensive set of stones.

Otherwise for a regular home cook who makes sushi a few times a year, there is no need for any special knife. A relatively sharp chef's knife will be fine.

I have a 330 mm sujihiki, and I don't feel it is too long.

dcarch

[gdenby]

Hello, usermot,

I too am a home cook, and have been considering buying a sujihiki.

I can comment on one portion of your question. I find VG-10 quite a bit more difficult to sharpen than white2, but the VG-10 has better edge retention. I prefer VG-10, and other stain resistant steels because I never used a carbon steel blade until quite late in life. I have very poor habits keeping the carbon steels clean and corrosion free.

And I have one question. Why not consider a 300 mm suji? As I understand it, the best slice is made w. a single cut, no sawing. The longer the blade, the easier that is. I have an old 10" Chicago cutlery slicer. While the steel is certainly not outstanding, my main reason for looking for a replacement is that I sometimes wish it was just a little longer.

[usermot]

Hi Guys,

Thank you very much for your helpful replies!

Sorry for the silence. As new society member I have limited posting ability.

Dakki, I followed the link that you shared, and found that this guy is outstanding knife craftsman! Beautiful knives!

I found other craftsmen like Murray Carter and Bob Kramer as well, but the price tag is out of the range that I can to spend.

Twist, I read a lot of complimentary posts about Konosuke HD slicers. Looks like really laser knife.

One of strong reasons that stopping me from buying this knife is the Koki's (from JCK) excellent service and cheap shipping to Israel. Hard to beat my positive buying experience with him.

Another reason (that I understood from discussions) is VG-10 and Konosuke semi-stainless steel has close characteristics if to consider the edge retention and sharpening. Am I wrong?

gdenby, dcarch, I agree with you, 300mm may be better length for slicer. The only reason why I am looking for shorter suji is my limited kitchen environment.

But I will try to simulate 300mm long knife and to see if it still comfortable

Thank you very much again! I very appreciate your great advices!

Roman

[Dakki]

I don't want to oversell this but the dudes you named are "big names" in the industry, which means you'd pay extra for the privilege of having an original wossname. There's plenty of "starving artists" out there capable of turning out first-class work - and they'll be hungrier than usual come January, right after all the knife nuts have self-gifted and right before those credit card bills come due...

Asking some real knife nuts about sujis, the Konosuke (which I see Twyst has already recommended) was mentioned several times. You might look into that (I think CKTG carries that brand).

EDIT: Whoops, you already researched that knife. Ah well.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Dakki (log)

[usermot]

Thanks Dakki!

I completely share your view on "big names".

I wrote an email to Konosuke-sakai about knife and shipping prices and handle options. Let's wait for the answer

[usermot]

My searches finished and dilemmas resoleved I just did an order for Hattori FH-13 270mm.

Believe it will be great addition to my Hattori FH knife set.

Thanks a lot to All of you for your advices!

Enjoy your cooking

Roman

[Dakki]

Nice. Please review it for us when you get it.

[usermot]

Dakki - Yes sure!

Short update about my sujihiki purchase.

Yesterday I had oppotrunety to try 300m suji and... it was not so huge as I was afraid of

The knife set comfortable in my hand, with the feeling that I am completely in control of the knife along its entire length.

So I changed my order (thanks to the great Koki's service) and will learn to cut things with one long cut

gdenby - Thanks for advice about 300mm suji

Thanks again to All!

Roman

[rotuts]

please post a pic and your thoughts after you get the knife.

[usermot]

Hello All,

Yesterday I received my new sujihiki knife. Thanks to Koki for the fast delivery!

Knife is beautiful, handle is very handy in my hand and blade length is just perfect

I still not used it yet. Will test it on salmon filet this weekend

The lower pic is my knives set on Mag-Blok knife holder.

I apologize in advance for the quality of photos

Edited November 28, 2013 by usermot (log)