German Potato Salad - Kartoffelsalat

[Shel_B]

Over the weekend Toots wanted me to make potato salad for her. I had no recipes handy, and Toots had a pretty bare cupboard and fridge, so I had to wing it.

I made a dressing from cornichon juice, apple cider vinegar, olive oil, pepper, and a small amount of sugar. She had some Yukon Gold potatoes in the pantry, so I cooked them up and, when done and while hot, doused them with the dressing. I also added some chopped cornichons, a small stalk of celery that I diced fine, and a couple of sliced eggs.

The flavor was satisfactory - nice and tangy with a background of subtle sweetness, but the potatoes were a little dry. With this experience behind me, it seems that I should learn to make a good Kartoffelsalat. I'm open to suggestions, pointers, and any ideas. Thanks for any help.

[chileheadmike]

My Mom makes a German Potato Salad that she says is absolutely authentic and brought over by relatives from Germany. I've had GPS at different restaurants but it's always sweet. Mom's has no sugar. Her's is:

5 lbs russet potatoes

1 onion

1 dozen eggs

1 lbs bacon

1/2 or so of cider vinegar

Salt and pepper

Basically, boil the potatoes and eggs. Peel each and chop in large chunks. Dice the bacon and cook till crisp, then add the onion and cook until soft. Add vinegar, S&P, stir and serve warm.

Every other recipe I've seen has called for sugar or brown sugar. I much prefer Mom's. The other stuff just ain't right.

[heidih]

CHM - is that cider vinegar a half cup? That sounds like what my grandmom and mom did. I think the onions provided that touch of sweetness to contrast the salty bacon, and the vinegar. I think it was key.that we boiled the potatoes unpeeled and them slid the skins off when they were still scary hot. I think that getting the fat and acid in there when they are hot is key to packing the flavor into the potatoes.

[chileheadmike]

CHM - is that cider vinegar a half cup? That sounds like what my grandmom and mom did. I think the onions provided that touch of sweetness to contrast the salty bacon, and the vinegar. I think it was key. We boiled the potatoes unpeeled and them slid the skins off when they were still scary hot. I think that getting the fat and acid in there when they are hot is key to packing the flavor into the potatoes.

Yes, 1/2 cup. Sorry. My Mom also peeled the potatoes scary hot. I don't know how she did it. I love how the egg yolks sort of melt into the bacon/vinegar dressing. I may have to make a batch this weekend. Somehow, Mom's was always better than mine though.

[heidih]

I forgot to mention that we also used russets. Yukon Gold as mentioned in the opening post is a more solid potato that would not absorb flavors like the more sponge mimicking russet. It is interesting to see that chileheadmike's mom also boiled them in their jackets. I am not sure if it was just faster and easier or if boiling them pre-peel holds their shape and makes them less waterlogged? Also as I think about it I often see pictures of the German potato salads with the pieces in rounds as opposed to rough largish chunks. We were chunkers.

[Jaymes]

Notice the OP didn't mention bacon. Having lived in Germany as a child, that warm potato salad remains a real favorite of mine. In fact, not just the potato salad, but everything with that sweet/sour flavor profile. And it seems to me that every German I've known starts with frying bacon, or some other pork product, and the resulting grease provides the oil/fat base for the dressing. Our cook used to make potato salad in the same skillet after frying pork chops, or sausage.

Perhaps looking for a vegetarian version? Because if not, then I'd definitely suggest you fry up some bacon or other pork product and make your dressing, and salad, in that skillet.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Jaymes (log)

[chileheadmike]

I forgot to mention that we also used russets. Yukon Gold as mentioned in the opening post is a more solid potato that would not absorb flavors like the more sponge mimicking russet. It is interesting to see that chileheadmike's mom also boiled them in their jackets. I am not sure if it was just faster and easier or if boiling them pre-peel holds their shape and makes them less waterlogged? Also as I think about it I often see pictures of the German potato salads with the pieces in rounds as opposed to rough largish chunks. We were chunkers.

In an attempt to not burn my hands, I tried peeling then boiling once. The potatoes were definitely waterlogged.

[Porthos]

I forgot to mention that we also used russets. Yukon Gold as mentioned in the opening post is a more solid potato that would not absorb flavors like the more sponge mimicking russet. It is interesting to see that chileheadmike's mom also boiled them in their jackets. I am not sure if it was just faster and easier or if boiling them pre-peel holds their shape and makes them less waterlogged? Also as I think about it I often see pictures of the German potato salads with the pieces in rounds as opposed to rough largish chunks. We were chunkers.

In an attempt to not burn my hands, I tried peeling then boiling once. The potatoes were definitely waterlogged.

I do believe that you can peel then steam the potatoes. Another thread on potato salad brought my potato-boiling days to an end. Now I only steam whole potatoes. I do, however, still steam then peel.

[Shel_B]

Notice the OP didn't mention bacon [...]Perhaps looking for a vegetarian version? Because if not, then I'd definitely suggest you fry up some bacon or other pork product and make your dressing, and salad, in that skillet.

First, the salad was an improvised creation using what was handy, and there was (and never is) any bacon in the house. The only time I'll use bacon is for a specific dish, and then I'll buy just what is needed - two, three, four strips - of high quality, thick, hand sliced bacon of a type specific to the dish being prepared.

Should bacon be "required," I'll use it, but making a vegetarian version of the salad is fine for us.

That said, I read that typical American bacon is not used in German Kartoffelsalat, and that Speck, or something similar, is commonly used. Is that correct?

[heidih]

Shel - I think Culinaria Germany makes the primal point when it states:

"The fact is that in Germany there are about as many recipes for potato salad as there are people with the surnames Muller, Schmidt, Schmitz...."

This discussion reminds me of Kim Severson's great piece on the spaghetti sauce of her family and the search for authenticity. Simple food is made with what is available and immigrants often have to improvise. here is a link to the article in case it interests anyone: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/21/dining/21sauce.html?ref=kimseverson&_r=0

[Jaymes]

Notice the OP didn't mention bacon [...]Perhaps looking for a vegetarian version? Because if not, then I'd definitely suggest you fry up some bacon or other pork product and make your dressing, and salad, in that skillet.

First, the salad was an improvised creation using what was handy, and there was (and never is) any bacon in the house. The only time I'll use bacon is for a specific dish, and then I'll buy just what is needed - two, three, four strips - of high quality, thick, hand sliced bacon of a type specific to the dish being prepared.

Should bacon be "required," I'll use it, but making a vegetarian version of the salad is fine for us.

That said, I read that typical American bacon is not used in German Kartoffelsalat, and that Speck, or something similar, is commonly used. Is that correct?

As I recall, speck is pork or sausage grease, sometimes with, sometimes without, small bits of meat.

Not American-style bacon, to be sure, but grease from a pork product.

Like I said, our cook typically made potato salad to go with pork chops, and she made it in the same pan, using the pork fat. Or, often, she saved the grease from the morning's sausage, and she used that to make the potato salad. She did have bacon, but it was not "American-style," in that it wasn't smoked. I'm in Houston, which is a very ethnically diverse city. There actually are German and Polish delis here where I can buy speck. Or, I can fry up a pan of sausage and use that. But, we always have bacon, and we like that flavor, and it's easy, so that's what we use. If I don't want the smoked flavor of American-style bacon, I simply parboil it a bit, which removes it.

However, I'm sure that there are many vegetarian options that you might find more pleasing.

It does seem to me that, in your original post, you said you were "open for suggestions, pointers, and any ideas."

This was my humble effort in that regard.

As always, you are certainly free to ignore it if you wish.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Jaymes (log)

[heidih]

Jaymes - speck is fat - that is the literal translation. There are various culinary refinements based on regionality. When grandpa ate it on a piece of bread we cringed - our American translation was green bacon (unsmoked). So it goes back to your statement about some sort of pork product- what you have and what you like and you make it to your taste. We used bacon that had not been sliced and had the rind on so it had a bit more texture cuz that is what dad the butcher brought home from the packing house.

[Jaymes]

Jaymes - speck is fat - that is the literal translation. There are various culinary refinements based on regionality. When grandpa ate it on a piece of bread we cringed - our American translation was green bacon (unsmoked). So it goes back to your statement about some sort of pork product- what you have and what you like and you make it to your taste. We used bacon that had not been sliced and had the rind on so it had a bit more texture cuz that is what dad the butcher brought home from the packing house.

I remember in the (admittedly brutal) winters in Germany, our cook, Maria, would take slices of heavy bread, soak them in warm speck until they were completely saturated with the fat, and then fry them in more speck. Then eat it piping hot.

We were aghast. But my dad pointed out that the winters there required plenty of body heat, and eating what was basically fat fried in more fat, was a good way to fuel one's personal oven. And Maria was not a plump woman. To the contrary, she was small and wiry and very strong.

My favorite Polish restaurant here in Houston serves two little white dishes along with your basket of bread. One contains butter.

The other, pure sausage speck.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Jaymes (log)

[Shel_B]

Jaymes - speck is fat - that is the literal translation. There are various culinary refinements based on regionality. When grandpa ate it on a piece of bread we cringed - our American translation was green bacon (unsmoked).

Speck may literally be translated as fat, but it is also similar to prosciutto:

http://www.ingredientsgourmet.com/SPECK HAM.htm

http://www.igourmet.com/shoppe/German-Speck-by-Abraham.asp?cat=&subcat=&cf=usp_ListMeats_MultiCategory_Sel&cprod=&source=pepperjamppc&gclid=CKjh-7Pnj7kCFQ9dQgodz3cAFg

Edited August 22, 2013 by Shel_B (log)

[heidih]

Well it sure is not a long air cured product like prosciutto - not a household item for most

[Shel_B]

Well it sure is not a long air cured product like prosciutto - not a household item for most

While a good prosciutto may be aged longer, a good speck an be aged about a year or so. The test, as is so often the case, is how the meat tastes. Prosciutto, especially traditionally air cured Prosciutto de Parma, is a different product, just like a Serrano ham is different.

Your comment suggests that Speck may be an inferior product - did I misunderstand you?

Edited August 22, 2013 by Shel_B (log)

[heidih]

Not sure how you could have parsed inferior out of that. The point is that people use what they have and as Jaymes noted earlier a fatty pork product is often used for the flavor/fat content

[nibor]

This is speck at my grocery store in Zurich today. This is what is called speck in Germany as well. If you order bacon for breakfast in a restaurant in either country, you will be served speck. I don't know my pig parts, but it is bacon-like, comes either in blocks (as in this photo - about the size of small bricks) or thick slices, and it tastes more meaty than bacon in the US. I didn't look at the ingredient list, but I suspect that it doesn't have as much sugar added as US bacon.

[Jaymes]

...and there was (and never is) any bacon in the house. The only time I'll use bacon is for a specific dish, and then I'll buy just what is needed - two, three, four strips - of high quality, thick, hand sliced bacon of a type specific to the dish being prepared.

Golly, we're not as much alike as I thought...

I buy whatever bacon is on sale, and plenty of it, and then go home and throw it into the freezer. Bacon is something we never want to be without. Especially now, with the late-summer tomatoes being so plentiful. Would hate to have the tomatoes, but no bacon, for BLTs. Or, to make bacon-avocado sandwiches. Or, to flavor green beans. Or, to flavor pinto beans. Or, to lay across the top of my meatloaf. Or, to make wilted spinach salad. Or, to fry up for breakfast. Or, to make potato-bacon chowder. Or, to fry up in my cast-iron skillet so that I can get some hot bacon grease to make my southern-style cornbread.

Or, to make German Potato Salad.

.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Jaymes (log)

[Katie Meadow]

No ideas about German potato salads, but I do make all kinds of potato salads regularly. Personally I would not use russets for potato salad. In a pinch I might use yukon golds, but I don't think they are ideal either. I like a waxy potato that stays firm and doesn't get mushy at all for my salads. Since you are in Berkeley and shop the farmers' market, why don't you try using the french fingerlings? They are fab for potato salad--great flavor, great texture. I boil them and take them out of the water while they still have some bite.

The Pasta Shop usually sells speck as well as the very similar Niman Ranch jambon royal, which I like better. Both are smoky and both are cheaper than prosciutto and maybe even more appropriate for a potato salad. Comments above about speck being just fat doesn't jibe with what I have tasted.

[Shel_B]

No ideas about German potato salads, but I do make all kinds of potato salads regularly. Personally I would not use russets for potato salad. In a pinch I might use yukon golds, but I don't think they are ideal either. I like a waxy potato that stays firm and doesn't get mushy at all for my salads. Since you are in Berkeley and shop the farmers' market, why don't you try using the french fingerlings? They are fab for potato salad--great flavor, great texture. I boil them and take them out of the water while they still have some bite.

The Pasta Shop usually sells speck as well as the very similar Niman Ranch jambon royal, which I like better. Both are smoky and both are cheaper than prosciutto and maybe even more appropriate for a potato salad. Comments above about speck being just fat doesn't jibe with what I have tasted.

I've been having good luck with YG potatoes, but based on an earlier potato salad thread I thought I'd experiment with some other varieties. I almost bought some red potatoes at Berkeley Bowl a couple of days ago, but didn't care for the way they looked. I do want to try some reds, but just yesterday I saw some fingerlings that looked very nice and decided that I'd try those for the German-style salad.

Ahhh... the Pasta Shop. That's a place I've not visited in a while. Now that you've recommended them for speck, etc., it's time for a visit. I've got some free time tomorrow, so maybe I'll run over there.

Yes, speck is a lot more than just fat, but I think we resolved that issue.

Thanks for jumping in ....

[jjahorn]

Just to jump in about 'speck'

In Germany it is specifically the fatty tissue between the skin and meat. It is often brined or smoked, and sometimes sold in small cubes, sometimes in one large chunk like the picture above. When bought in pieces, it is usually not pure fat, but also contains layers of meat - like bacon.

The description of the melted fat sounds a lot more like 'schmalz' which is (rendered?) fat. I usually see it in the grocery store from pork or goose. Often it has dried onion mixed into it, and can be used for cooking, or smeared on bread as a butter replacement.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmalz

My wife's Aunt makes a very good salad. I'll ask this week and post her recommendation.

[ninagluck]

Being Austrian, I guess I can comment on that subject.

the way it is done here and always served with wiener schnitzel is following:

boil waxy potatoes (fingerlings work great), peel them while they are hot. put some hot beef broth over it, add some applevinegar,

red onions, sugar, salt and pepper. let it stand, as the hot potatoes absorb the liquid. after it has cooled down, taste and adjust

the seasoning (it takes alot of salt) put some sunflowerl oil over it just before serving. (if you put in the oil before, the potatoes won't absorb the broth and the vinegar) instead of the sunflower oil, one can also use pumpkinseed oil.

that's traditional potatoe salad over her.

if you add speck, it turns into a completly different dish!

[Shel_B]

My wife's Aunt makes a very good salad. I'll ask this week and post her recommendation.

That would be great! Thanks ...

[fvandrog]

Shel - I think Culinaria Germany makes the primal point when it states:

"The fact is that in Germany there are about as many recipes for potato salad as there are people with the surnames Muller, Schmidt, Schmitz...."

That's definitely true, I own quite a few German cookbooks and have tried and liked plenty of different potato salads.

One of my favorite ones combines the potatoes with tomatoes, eggs and Fleischwurst (Bologna-sausage with garlic) and of course home-made mayonnaise.

I don't remember the relative quantities by heart, but thinking about it, we'll most likely eat it tonight. So, if anyone has an interest I will happily post or PM the (translated!) recipe.