Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2012

[thampik]

I am sure I have seen references to a 'mealy' taste mentioned in the context of sous-vide and now I have first hand experience of it.

The (Gressingham) duck breast was vacuum sealed and cooked at 57.2C for two hours followed by rapid chilling. The fat was then rendered and the skin crisped up on a pan at the time of serving. The meat looked perfect in terms of color but there was a distinct (and off-putting) 'mealy' taste.

Is there a way to avoid this - timing, temperature?

Is it specific to duck, or even to this specific type of duck - I have not experienced this with chicken breast certainly.

I was trying to recreate a sublime duck dish that I ate at The Hand and Flowers - from the recipe (http://www.bbc.co.uk...duck_with_87650) it appears that it is cooked as a crown at 62C for 1.5 hrs.

Edited May 9, 2012 by thampik (log)

[EnriqueB]

The (Gressingham) duck breast was vacuum sealed and cooked at 57.2C for two hours followed by rapid chilling. The fat was then rendered and the skin crisped up on a pan at the time of serving. The meat looked perfect in terms of color but there was a distinct (and off-putting) 'mealy' taste.

FWIW, I last cooked Barberie duck breasts at 55ºC for one hour. They were great, though I will likely use a lower temperature next time. Don't know how they are different from Gressingham ducks.

(edited to correct the name of the duck breed)

Edited May 9, 2012 by EnriqueB (log)

[Doodad]

Had great luck for Cinco with pork shoulder cooked at 75 for 17 hours. Delish. Next time I will stop at 12 hours though.

[nickrey]

Just a note to let you all know that I have been looking at the cooking temperature recommended in Sous Vide Dash and various other sources for chicken breasts, which sits around the 65C mark. Tried this with some chicken breasts recently to see if they were better than the 60C that I normally cook them at. They weren't. The 60C breasts are well-cooked and extremely succulent, just the thing with which you'd convince others to turn to sous vide as a preferred cooking medium. At 65C, they were stringy and disappointing. Be very careful about what temperatures you cook at: even if they come from "reputable" sources, you may be upset with the result.

[KennethT]

I am sure I have seen references to a 'mealy' taste mentioned in the context of sous-vide and now I have first hand experience of it.

The (Gressingham) duck breast was vacuum sealed and cooked at 57.2C for two hours followed by rapid chilling. The fat was then rendered and the skin crisped up on a pan at the time of serving. The meat looked perfect in terms of color but there was a distinct (and off-putting) 'mealy' taste.

Is there a way to avoid this - timing, temperature?

Is it specific to duck, or even to this specific type of duck - I have not experienced this with chicken breast certainly.

I was trying to recreate a sublime duck dish that I ate at The Hand and Flowers - from the recipe (http://www.bbc.co.uk...duck_with_87650) it appears that it is cooked as a crown at 62C for 1.5 hrs.

I usually do magret duck breast (from Moulard ducks) at 131F (55C) until pasteurized and they usually come out very good. I'll bump the temp up to 135F or so if I'm curing/smoking and then slicing and serving cold. Sorry - no experience with Gressingham ducks.

[EnriqueB]

Just a note to let you all know that I have been looking at the cooking temperature recommended in Sous Vide Dash and various other sources for chicken breasts, which sits around the 65C mark. Tried this with some chicken breasts recently to see if they were better than the 60C that I normally cook them at. They weren't. The 60C breasts are well-cooked and extremely succulent, just the thing with which you'd convince others to turn to sous vide as a preferred cooking medium. At 65C, they were stringy and disappointing. Be very careful about what temperatures you cook at: even if they come from "reputable" sources, you may be upset with the result.

65ºC is too high for breasts, IMO. I started trying at 60ºC when I began "sous-viding", then reduced down little-by-little until 55ºC. Give them a try at 55ºC, they are much much better than 60ºC, you'll be suprised. About one hour for average size chickens, about three hours for pasteurization.

[rotuts]

Its interesting how tastes differ: I SV beef, pork and duck breasts at 131 until 'tender' including the shoulder. I reheat for 'roasts' and use room temp for sandwiches.

i tried both chicken and turkey breast meat at the Baldwin recommended temp of 140 for 3 hours, and didn't care for it and now do those meats at 145 for 3 hours: for 'roasts' sandwiches and various 'curries': Patak for indian and Thai (maesri and mae ploy)

[thampik]

From the responses so far it does not appear as if temperature is the chief suspect.

Has anyone experienced 'mealiness' whilst cooking sous-vide?

[rotuts]

Yes. As far as I can tell, 'mealiness' is meat that has sat too long in the SV bath and begun to loose its structure. Ive had this happen with 'chuck' (which are various muscle groups that might be better treated individually) that was kept too long in the bath. Even 131.

i also feel that beef 'on sale' might be overly susceptible to this problem as it has sat for 'some time' to go on sale and the enzymes may have denatured the meat somewhat. This meat is thus not a great candidate for 'long' SV

so I think its a combinations of enzymatic auto digestion that SV might contribute to. Id like to hear more about this but its a 'tough' topic as its so non-specific.

[EnriqueB]

I would call 'mealiness' to the texture of a pork shoulder that I cooked at 60ºC for 72 hours. I took one bag out at 48 hours and it was ok, but another at 72 hours was not good. Pork shoulder is also composed of many muscles and some of them may even be considered tender, so this was likely an issue of excessive time.

But 2 hours at 57ºC for duck breast does not look especiallly long....

[rotuts]

EB: have you tried pork at 131 for as long as it takes to 'get tender' and be 'pasteurized'?

I do this all the time with Loin (not tenderloin) and 'country ribs' which here are loin 'opened up' as far as I can tell

sliced thin, perhaps warm in a sandwich (bocadillo) even charred on the outside first is outstanding

[thampik]

If it is really about it being too long in the bath - I can't find anything that tells me that 57.2C for two hours is too long.

Plus duck breast is one 'muscle' - right?

Edited May 9, 2012 by thampik (log)

[EnriqueB]

EB: have you tried pork at 131 for as long as it takes to 'get tender' and be 'pasteurized'?

I do this all the time with Loin (not tenderloin) and 'country ribs' which here are loin 'opened up' as far as I can tell

sliced thin, perhaps warm in a sandwich (bocadillo) even charred on the outside first is outstanding

Sure, I cook all pork tender cuts (such as loin, tenderloin, ribs or "presa" --see pictures on the Dinner thread) at 55ºC. For me just time for temperature to reach core (i.e. "to get tender"), and for my wife longer pasteurization times as she's pregnant. BTW normal pork is nice, but ibérico pork is just marvellous cooked like this. Both hot and cold in bocadillos!

Tough cuts I have done cheeks (also picture in the Dinner thread) and some part of the shoulder at 60 or 65ºC for 1-3 days. Also excellent (except for the 72 hours shoulder part)

[HowardLi]

I'm planning on using a charcoal chimney to emulate a salamander for some burgers coming from an SV bath.

To what degree should I allow the beef to cool before starting to sear? Should I go for uniformity of cooling or do I want just the outside cooled down? Will I get faster browning if I spritz on a glucose solution a la Baldwin? Does it really matter with the heat from the chimney?

[philie]

hey guys,

just wanted to let you know my first test about the "rippchen" precooked and brined pork.

i just made one piece for 8 hours at 58 celsius and one for just 1 hour.

i have to say that its been hard to tell a major difference, maybe the 8 hour piece was a bit more succulent but both were very nice and tasty. i have to test it with a larger piece, about 5pounds and hope it will work out nicely.

thanks again!

[avaserfi]

I'm planning on using a charcoal chimney to emulate a salamander for some burgers coming from an SV bath.

To what degree should I allow the beef to cool before starting to sear? Should I go for uniformity of cooling or do I want just the outside cooled down? Will I get faster browning if I spritz on a glucose solution a la Baldwin? Does it really matter with the heat from the chimney?

Modernist Cuisine suggests submerging the already low temperature cooked burgers in liquid nitrogen then deep frying in very hot oil. The technique freezes the outer layer of the meat, but not the inner. As the burger cooks at a high heat the frozen portion defrosts and browns while the inner portion is insulated from the heat. From all reports, the result is a rare, but extremely crisp burger.

If I were in your situation (assuming you don't have access to liquid nitrogen), I would probably get dry ice, wrap it in cheese cloth and set it on both sides of the burger for 30 seconds to a minute, then grill. This should mimic liquid nitrogen closely. I would also probably skip the glucose. To be honest, I've never found it necessary. I get great maillard reactions without any additional additives, just a smoking hot pan and some high temp oil.

[HowardLi]

I wish I could "see" the thermal gradient in the burger throughout the process.

Do you get a better crust on a cast iron skillet or an SS skillet?

Edited May 11, 2012 by HowardLi (log)

[avaserfi]

I tend to prefer cast iron or blue/black steel. Stainless, often sandwiched with aluminum will warp far before it hits the high temperatures that cast iron or blue/black steel can reach.

I also like to fry sous vide cooked meats in very hot oil 400F+. Great, very even results.

[HowardLi]

I tend to prefer cast iron or blue/black steel. Stainless, often sandwiched with aluminum will warp far before it hits the high temperatures that cast iron or blue/black steel can reach.

Makes sense. At those temperatures, though, don't you risk losing the seasoning of the cast iron?

[avaserfi]

I tend to prefer cast iron or blue/black steel. Stainless, often sandwiched with aluminum will warp far before it hits the high temperatures that cast iron or blue/black steel can reach.

Makes sense. At those temperatures, though, don't you risk losing the seasoning of the cast iron?

I was worried the first time I did it, but I've never had a problem. My lodge pan still feels like glass and I've never had an issue with it sticking.

[Toufas]

Guys is the juan roca book any good?

[HowardLi]

I tend to prefer cast iron or blue/black steel. Stainless, often sandwiched with aluminum will warp far before it hits the high temperatures that cast iron or blue/black steel can reach.

Makes sense. At those temperatures, though, don't you risk losing the seasoning of the cast iron?

I was worried the first time I did it, but I've never had a problem. My lodge pan still feels like glass and I've never had an issue with it sticking.

Nice. I picked up some avocado oil today. Will I get a better crust if I press down on the patty?

[mgaretz]

A friend of mine who used to own a burger joint always said to never press on the patty. It squeezes all the juices out and you get a very dry burger. Of course he was cooking them conventionally.

[rotuts]

Id like to SV some sausage. Some would be breakfast and some dinner. Chill then freeze for convenience sake.

pasteurize. keep 'juicy' clearly tenderness is not an issue.

145 3 hours? less?

thanks

[nickrey]

Guys is the juan roca book any good?

Expensive book. Try this thread for info.