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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011


Qwerty
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Turkey thighs are beautiful after 24 hrs at 165°F; they are very tender but they are not pink. I would start from there for legs, though since legs have more connective tissue they may benefit from more time. Even the thighs do not completely dissolve the connective tissue in 24 hrs.

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Thanks for the IIF twice cooked scallops hint. Looks great, I'll get a test batch brining today and am looking forward to trying the results.

Wrapping them up in a tube before SVing is just the sort of extra tip I'm looking for - I'd seen this done in MC with Activa to make a single long piece of scallop meat but it didn't occur to me that I could omit the Activa and just SV them this way to maintain a firm shape and texture.

Cheers!

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Does anyone here have experience cooking venison loin sous vide? I want to know if time is a factor, as in if I leave it in too long the meat gets that "livery" flavor or becomes too gamey.

Edited by therippa (log)
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Does anyone here have experience cooking venison loin sous vide? I want to know if time is a factor, as in if I leave it in too long the meat gets that "livery" flavor or becomes too gamey.

One hour at 58C is my best bet for venison loin. See this entry Venison Loin

Paul Eggermann

Vice President, Secretary and webmaster

Les Marmitons of New Jersey

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Seems a bit short. Why would it be different from beef tenderloin?

I used the thickness gauge in a prior post (which is based on Doug Bladwins tables) and found it was 35 mm and cylindrical, so I cooked for one hour. MC prefers 55C but lists 58C as the temperature for "pink", between medium rare and medium. It has worked well for me including service for 40 people last month.

Paul Eggermann

Vice President, Secretary and webmaster

Les Marmitons of New Jersey

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Seems a bit short. Why would it be different from beef tenderloin?

Per Modernist Cuisine, you don't want to cook venison SV using the equilibrium temperature technique. It takes too long, and becomes mushy (due to enzyme activity I think) and gamy. So in order to cook it more quickly, you set the water bath higher than the target temperature and pull it out according to a strict timetable (and let it rest).

--

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Seems a bit short. Why would it be different from beef tenderloin?

Per Modernist Cuisine, you don't want to cook venison SV using the equilibrium temperature technique. It takes too long, and becomes mushy (due to enzyme activity I think) and gamy. So in order to cook it more quickly, you set the water bath higher than the target temperature and pull it out according to a strict timetable (and let it rest).

Thanks, I missed that apparently...will have to consult MC again when I get home.

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Seems a bit short. Why would it be different from beef tenderloin?

Per Modernist Cuisine, you don't want to cook venison SV using the equilibrium temperature technique. It takes too long, and becomes mushy (due to enzyme activity I think) and gamy. So in order to cook it more quickly, you set the water bath higher than the target temperature and pull it out according to a strict timetable (and let it rest).

I have used this approach with both venison and wild boar. When you do it this way, the meat closer to the surface ends up reaching a higher temperature than the final core temperature. It is closer to the water temperature. Essentially you have the effect you see with traditional roasting techniques where e.g. the first half a centimeter below the surface is medium when the core is medium rare. But it is not nearly as pronounced unless your water bath is extremely hot. You can make some very interesting tradeoffs between the mushy/livery result and the non-uniform doneness by varying the temperature. But you always have to compute the right time to reach the core temperature you want and pull it out immediately when you reach it.

I've had good luck with water 3-5°C over the final desired core temperature and a cooking time that will bring the core to 0.5-1°C below what I'm really aiming for. Remember that if the temperature is not uniform when you pull it, which it isn't in this case, that it will come to an intermediate equilibrium while resting.

The other way to get around mushiness is to use very thin pieces of meat that don't take long to reach equilibrium. But you may not want to do that with a nice tenderloin. I haven't tried it.

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MadVal, Seattle, WA

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I have had excellent SV results with tougher venison (wild, that is) cuts - ie neck roast and round - with 24 hrs at 55C. Put in bag frozen, suck a vacuum, then SV. Brown in very hot oil pan when I'm done. mmmm mmm good. No nasty gaminess or mushiness - just good venison flavor and an appropriate meat texture.

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I have had excellent SV results with tougher venison (wild, that is) cuts - ie neck roast and round - with 24 hrs at 55C. Put in bag frozen, suck a vacuum, then SV. Brown in very hot oil pan when I'm done. mmmm mmm good. No nasty gaminess or mushiness - just good venison flavor and an appropriate meat texture.

That was my experience as well when testing recipes for my cookbook. A family friend gave many several cuts from deer (and elk and antelope) that he'd bow-hunted and I didn't have any problem with gaminess or mushiness. I haven't read that section of MC so I can't comment on their results, just that I didn't have a problem with the meat I was given.

My Guide: A Practical Guide to Sous Vide Cooking, which Harold McGee described as "a wonderful contribution."

My Book: Sous Vide for the Home Cook US EU/UK

My YouTube channel — a new work in progress.

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I have had excellent SV results with tougher venison (wild, that is) cuts - ie neck roast and round - with 24 hrs at 55C. Put in bag frozen, suck a vacuum, then SV. Brown in very hot oil pan when I'm done. mmmm mmm good. No nasty gaminess or mushiness - just good venison flavor and an appropriate meat texture.

The latest venison loin I used was wild also. One hour in a 58C bath produced the results you see in my post above. No need to overdo it.

Paul Eggermann

Vice President, Secretary and webmaster

Les Marmitons of New Jersey

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Revisiting eggs one more time. After some experimenting, I've settled on a method that gives me perfectly cooked eggs every time.

(1) Cook sous vide at 63C/145F for 1 hour. Here is where you can adjust the time and / or temp to get the yolk texture you prefer.

(2) Remove eggs to a cooling bath of cold tap water.

(3) Heat sous vide bath to 71C/160F.

(4) Cook at 71C/160F for 7 minutes.

(5) Remove to cooling bath for a few minutes.

Egg whites have an amazing silky smooth texture, while the yolk is just the way I like it.

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I've got a rib roast in the fridge, dry aging it before Christmas Eve dinner (I hate turkey!).

Nearly all of the recipes I've seen oven-roast the meat at a relatively high temperature, then lower the temp.

But surely someone out there has done this sous vide, and then seared the outside under the broiler.

If so, what times/temperatures did you use?

I will almost certainly cut the roast in half, to about 2-1/2" or 62mm, for just the two of us. But the Sous Vide Dash says that anything thicker than 57m will exceed the four hour food safety rule.

But how much of a concern is that, really, since most of the oven-roasting times are at least that long?

Would pre-searing or blanching help?

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But how much of a concern is that, really, since most of the oven-roasting times are at least that long?

I think part of the issue in the SV is that it's an anaerobic environment. The pathogens that are at work (botulism I think) are different than what would be of concern in the oven.

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I've got a rib roast in the fridge, dry aging it before Christmas Eve dinner (I hate turkey!).

Nearly all of the recipes I've seen oven-roast the meat at a relatively high temperature, then lower the temp.

But surely someone out there has done this sous vide, and then seared the outside under the broiler.

If so, what times/temperatures did you use?

I will almost certainly cut the roast in half, to about 2-1/2" or 62mm, for just the two of us. But the Sous Vide Dash says that anything thicker than 57m will exceed the four hour food safety rule.

But how much of a concern is that, really, since most of the oven-roasting times are at least that long?

Would pre-searing or blanching help?

I've done this several times (actually I think many of us on this forum have)... I haven't used the SVDash yet, but according to NathanM's reformatted beef table, 2.5" should not be a problem, assuming that you're cooking to medium-rare 55C.. it should come to temp in just under 3h50m. Also, unless your roast has been jaccarded (either by you or at the processor), the interior is considered sterile by the FDA and not typically a concern for most pathogens. Personally, for cooking beef this way, I like to do a propane torch pre-sear to kill any bacteria on the surface and develop some flavor... I"ll also take any of the fatty trimmings off, and brown/render in a pan and add the rendered fat and browned pieces to the bag. Then, season and sear (again) prior to service.

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I've got a rib roast in the fridge, dry aging it before Christmas Eve dinner (I hate turkey!).

Nearly all of the recipes I've seen oven-roast the meat at a relatively high temperature, then lower the temp.

But surely someone out there has done this sous vide, and then seared the outside under the broiler.

If so, what times/temperatures did you use?

I will almost certainly cut the roast in half, to about 2-1/2" or 62mm, for just the two of us. But the Sous Vide Dash says that anything thicker than 57m will exceed the four hour food safety rule.

But how much of a concern is that, really, since most of the oven-roasting times are at least that long?

Would pre-searing or blanching help?

I've done this several times (actually I think many of us on this forum have)... I haven't used the SVDash yet, but according to NathanM's reformatted beef table, 2.5" should not be a problem, assuming that you're cooking to medium-rare 55C.. it should come to temp in just under 3h50m. Also, unless your roast has been jaccarded (either by you or at the processor), the interior is considered sterile by the FDA and not typically a concern for most pathogens. Personally, for cooking beef this way, I like to do a propane torch pre-sear to kill any bacteria on the surface and develop some flavor... I"ll also take any of the fatty trimmings off, and brown/render in a pan and add the rendered fat and browned pieces to the bag. Then, season and sear (again) prior to service.

I agree with Ken. I don't sear beforehand but do plunge large pieces of meat into a hot water bath for a minute to kill any pathogens on the surface. I prefer to sear at service and I know some people do it both before and after SV.

Paul Eggermann

Vice President, Secretary and webmaster

Les Marmitons of New Jersey

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A thumbs up to all for such superb info on the site.

I have had a sous vide supreme for the past week or so and generally found it to be superb. The best result perhaps was today with a pork belly done at 60c for 36 hours with a dry spice mix. It was tender enough to pull apart with gloves. Then a quick whizz and piped into filo tubes, with a bit of seasoning. Went down very well with the gang.

chillichutneyfilorolls2.jpg

Edited by cooksandcapers (log)
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Hi Bob,

With a nice roast, in my opinion (and I have experimented a lot), you cannot approach with SV the quality of result that you get from using a variation of the technique that Heston Blumenthal and Thomas Keller advocate: torch the meat and then cook in a low oven. Cook's Illustrated recently had their version -- and it works great. You get a sumptuous crust (easily the best part of a great roast in my opinion) and medium-rare meat nearly from edge to edge.

My current favorite method is a variation of the Cook's Illustrated version and Blumenthal's. I torch and use the low oven -- whereas they briefly use a high oven at the beginning to get the crust started.

When using this technique, you don't even need the broiler. Despite the low cooking temperatures, the browning that gets started with the torch continues. It is a great method and very easy -- and when we serve it, there are never leftovers. The only better prime rib that I have had uses essentially the same technique but uses a smoker at 200F for the cooking.

Anyway that is my .02,

E

I've got a rib roast in the fridge, dry aging it before Christmas Eve dinner (I hate turkey!).

Nearly all of the recipes I've seen oven-roast the meat at a relatively high temperature, then lower the temp.

But surely someone out there has done this sous vide, and then seared the outside under the broiler.

If so, what times/temperatures did you use?

I will almost certainly cut the roast in half, to about 2-1/2" or 62mm, for just the two of us. But the Sous Vide Dash says that anything thicker than 57m will exceed the four hour food safety rule.

But how much of a concern is that, really, since most of the oven-roasting times are at least that long?

Would pre-searing or blanching help?

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I like the method in seriouseats.com. They recommend cooking in a low oven first. Taking the meat out to rest while you turn the oven up to its highest setting, and then browning it in the oven. They prefer it to sous vide, saying that the long slow roast dries the surface, giving you faster, crispier results.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/12/the-food-lab-how-to-cook-roast-a-perfect-prime-rib.html

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I like the method in seriouseats.com. They recommend cooking in a low oven first. Taking the meat out to rest while you turn the oven up to its highest setting, and then browning it in the oven. They prefer it to sous vide, saying that the long slow roast dries the surface, giving you faster, crispier results.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/12/the-food-lab-how-to-cook-roast-a-perfect-prime-rib.html

Reading the article, the author wanted to achieve the "perfect" prime rib without using sous vide. They didn't mention sous vide in the article apart from saying that it couldn't be used. How did you extract the information that they prefer the method used when the comparison was definitely was not done?

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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I like the method in seriouseats.com. They recommend cooking in a low oven first. Taking the meat out to rest while you turn the oven up to its highest setting, and then browning it in the oven. They prefer it to sous vide, saying that the long slow roast dries the surface, giving you faster, crispier results.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/12/the-food-lab-how-to-cook-roast-a-perfect-prime-rib.html

Have you tried the torch then slow cook method? If not, I would try it before deciding that the seriouseats method is best.

Since, they did not try the torch then cook at low temp method, I find their conclusion suspect. I have used the same method that they recommend many many times. It works quite well. But, in my opinion, Keller and Blumenthal have developed an even better method. If you haven't tried it, I highly recommend it. The result is something that is surprising -- Harold McGee was apparently dubious until he tried it.

Anyway, that's my .02.

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