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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011


Qwerty
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I took the Ideas in Food: Sous Vide 2.0 class at Le Sanctuaire today. During the class, Alex mentioned you'll get better results if you chill & retherm SV-cooked foods rather than just use directly from the SV cooking bath.

Why is this? Did they explain?

I don't know...I didn't think to ask at the time for clarification, hence my follow up here. I'll have to look in their book to see if it's covered....

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I took the Ideas in Food: Sous Vide 2.0 class at Le Sanctuaire today. During the class, Alex mentioned you'll get better results if you chill & retherm SV-cooked foods rather than just use directly from the SV cooking bath.

Why is this? Did they explain?

I don't know...I didn't think to ask at the time for clarification, hence my follow up here. I'll have to look in their book to see if it's covered....

It has been a while since I read their book, but I don't think it was covered.

Andrew Vaserfirer aka avaserfi

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Martin Lersch posted perfect egg yolks part 2, a follow up post to that mentioned by NathanM upthread. He addresses the egg white issue by cooling the eggs to room temp before giving them a 3 minute boil. Result - perfect yolk and perfectly set whites. I've been using this method for a while and no longer have to decide what to do with leftover eggs. There are none!

BTW, the chart from perfect egg yolks part 1 is a great tool. I have used several time/temperature combinations and the results are always on the mark. My favorite is 63C for 75 minutes

Dave

This post, and in particular the "Culinary Biophysics: on the Nature of the 6XC Egg" paper that it references, has to be one of the most significant papers since Douglas Baldwin's Practical Guide to Sous Vide first appeared.

It directly contradicts both Modernist Cuisine and Douglas Baldwin and what other most practitioners of sous vide have believed and taught, myself included. At least when it comes to an egg, both time and temperature matter, and matter greatly.

Thanks, Smokalicious. You get my nomination for the best eGullet post of the year, so far. Great find.

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I took the Ideas in Food: Sous Vide 2.0 class at Le Sanctuaire today. During the class, Alex mentioned you'll get better results if you chill & retherm SV-cooked foods rather than just use directly from the SV cooking bath.

Why is this? Did they explain?

I don't know...I didn't think to ask at the time for clarification, hence my follow up here. I'll have to look in their book to see if it's covered....

My suspicion is that it has to do with the potential for some foods to re-absorb some of their juices and/or to ensure that when browning that the interior doesn't become more cooked. At Alinea, they chill the Wagyu ribeye cubes after cooking and before browning under the salamander.

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Herr Newton beneathen der tree bin gesprawlen

mit watchen ein smallisher appel gefallen.

Ach himmel! Herr Newton been overexciten

and soonish abouten der appel bin writen.

Der lesson:

Meinself is not thinken der fallen surprisen

comparen mit iffen der appel bin risen.

By Dave Morrah, Saturday Evening Post

The article Culinary Biophysics: on the Nature of the 6X°C Egg is very interesting. I am not so much surprised that time does matter, as temperature describes the average kinetic energy level of the molecules, so even at a temperature below the threshold energy level of a reaction, there is a percentage of molecules at a higher kinetic energy level exceeding the threshold and thus undergoing the reaction. This is in accordance with the experience that a steak cooked sous vide to medium rare may be held at the final temperature for some time, but if holding time is extended too much, texture will change noticeably and liquid loss will increase.

The problem of the egg white not setting at temperatures yielding a soft egg yolk is not satisfactorily addressed in the Khymos articles, but has been solved by Douglas Baldwin in his post Science: Cooking Eggs in Their Shells, continued in a later post. Later he posted a new egg heating time table which is my preferred reference now (direct link to In-Shell Egg Heating Times in a 75°C Water Bath Using Circumference). Cooking a perfect "perfect egg" in a quarter of an hour at 75°C to me is definitely more practical than cooking for a much longer time at 6X°C and then setting the egg white by a short dip in a hotter bath. See also the section on cooking eggs in the sous vide page in wikiGullet.

Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

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Pedro,

The greatest value I found in the Khymos post was in being able to consistently attain a desired texture in the egg yolk. I'm sure you'll agree that this is a matter of personal preference, much like the doneness of a steak.

I've been cooking for a very short while compared to most, so I'm always learning and looking for what works best for me. Also, I've found that very rarely is there only one "best" way to cook something. This seems especially true in sous vide cooking.

One nice aspect of the Khymos method (for want of a better term) is that you can cook the yolk ahead of time and refrigerate the eggs, then set the whites just before service in boiling water. This lets you serve a perfect egg (warm!) in just a few minutes.

Dave

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Pedro,

The greatest value I found in the Khymos post was in being able to consistently attain a desired texture in the egg yolk. I'm sure you'll agree that this is a matter of personal preference, much like the doneness of a steak.

I've been cooking for a very short while compared to most, so I'm always learning and looking for what works best for me. Also, I've found that very rarely is there only one "best" way to cook something. This seems especially true in sous vide cooking.

One nice aspect of the Khymos method (for want of a better term) is that you can cook the yolk ahead of time and refrigerate the eggs, then set the whites just before service in boiling water. This lets you serve a perfect egg (warm!) in just a few minutes.

Dave

I agree. If you like the egg white rubbery, reheat in boiling water, if you prefer a firm gel, keep water temperature below 84.5°C/184°F to prevent ovalbumin from denaturing.

Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

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Pedro,

The greatest value I found in the Khymos post was in being able to consistently attain a desired texture in the egg yolk. I'm sure you'll agree that this is a matter of personal preference, much like the doneness of a steak.

I've been cooking for a very short while compared to most, so I'm always learning and looking for what works best for me. Also, I've found that very rarely is there only one "best" way to cook something. This seems especially true in sous vide cooking.

One nice aspect of the Khymos method (for want of a better term) is that you can cook the yolk ahead of time and refrigerate the eggs, then set the whites just before service in boiling water. This lets you serve a perfect egg (warm!) in just a few minutes.

Dave

I agree. If you like the egg white rubbery, reheat in boiling water, if you prefer a firm gel, keep water temperature below 84.5°C/184°F to prevent ovalbumin from denaturing.

I made eggs again today. The whites were most decidedly NOT rubbery at all. Almost like yogurt. Easily spreadable, neither watery nor solid. Next time I'll try Douglas' method for comparison. Who knows, maybe I'll like those better.

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Pedro,

The greatest value I found in the Khymos post was in being able to consistently attain a desired texture in the egg yolk. I'm sure you'll agree that this is a matter of personal preference, much like the doneness of a steak.

I've been cooking for a very short while compared to most, so I'm always learning and looking for what works best for me. Also, I've found that very rarely is there only one "best" way to cook something. This seems especially true in sous vide cooking.

One nice aspect of the Khymos method (for want of a better term) is that you can cook the yolk ahead of time and refrigerate the eggs, then set the whites just before service in boiling water. This lets you serve a perfect egg (warm!) in just a few minutes.

Dave

I agree. If you like the egg white rubbery, reheat in boiling water, if you prefer a firm gel, keep water temperature below 84.5°C/184°F to prevent ovalbumin from denaturing.

I made eggs again today. The whites were most decidedly NOT rubbery at all. Almost like yogurt. Easily spreadable, neither watery nor solid. Next time I'll try Douglas' method for comparison. Who knows, maybe I'll like those better.

I'd like to try your version. In the khymos article and comments, there are a few variations mentioned. Which recipe are you using? I'd like to try your version and Doug's also.

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After bringing the water bath to a steady 145.8F temp., immerse eggs and cook for 70 minutes. Remove to cold tap water bath for around 1/2 hour while bringing a pot of water to boil. Cook eggs in boiling water for 3 minutes. Remove to cold tap water bath for a 2-3 minutes. Serve.

I've found that only the boiling time is somewhat critical. Adjust bath time & temperature to suit your taste and schedule.

Edit: These are supermarket large eggs, nothing fancy, foodie, or free range. Sorry, I'm poor.

Edited by Smokalicious (log)
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Seems like there's a new sous vide setup on the market - the AquaChef - it sells for about $200 plus shipping. You can see it here. Clearly it's a deep fryer reprogrammed for the sous vide temperature range. (I was wondering how long it would before someone did this to a fryer/slow cooker with temp control like the Hamilton Beach/electric pressure cooker.) I'm not about to trade my SVS for one of these, but anyone have any experience with one?

Mark

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www.markiscooking.com

My T shirt site: Guy Bling

My NEW Ribs site: BlasphemyRibs.com

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Seems like there's a new sous vide setup on the market - the AquaChef - it sells for about $200 plus shipping. You can see it here. Clearly it's a deep fryer reprogrammed for the sous vide temperature range. (I was wondering how long it would before someone did this to a fryer/slow cooker with temp control like the Hamilton Beach/electric pressure cooker.) I'm not about to trade my SVS for one of these, but anyone have any experience with one?

They don't specify the water volume and the dimensions of the bath, and there is no contact form or e-mail address, and no address at all (phone number must be Massachusetts). 110V only. USA only.

Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

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Has anyone done veal Parmesan and cooked the veal sous vide before breading and frying?

I was thinking about giving it a shot, but am concerned with overcooking the thin cut of meat. To prevent overcooking, I was going to sous vide, chill in an ice bath, coat with and shallow fry in 232C/450F oil for about 30 seconds until browned and warmed through.

Andrew Vaserfirer aka avaserfi

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avaserfirer@egstaff.org

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Seems like there's a new sous vide setup on the market - the AquaChef - it sells for about $200 plus shipping. You can see it here. Clearly it's a deep fryer reprogrammed for the sous vide temperature range. (I was wondering how long it would before someone did this to a fryer/slow cooker with temp control like the Hamilton Beach/electric pressure cooker.) I'm not about to trade my SVS for one of these, but anyone have any experience with one?

They don't specify the water volume and the dimensions of the bath, and there is no contact form or e-mail address, and no address at all (phone number must be Massachusetts). 110V only. USA only.

It looks like a deep fryer with a sous vide label attached. It's even got the chip basket!

No mention of any form of circulation nor any mention of intelligent control like PID.

Doesn't sound like much of an innovation to me.

Cheers,

Peter.

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I did a Mangalitsa pork loin roast yesterday: First I basted the meat with a spicy syrup that was leftover from candying green walnuts and seared it on all sides. After cooling, I basted the roast again and bagged it with a cube of brown stock. I cooked it overnight (~10 hours) at 58°C, followed by chilling and reheating in the evening. I used a stepwise cooling procedure (10 minutes at room temperature, 10 minutes in cold water, ~40 minutes in ice water). After the reheating I browned the roast with a combination of a really hot cast-iron flat pan and my blowtorch.

There was no skin on this roast as I removed it together with the back fat for other purposes. However, Mangalitsa pigs a very fatty animals, so there still was almost 2 cm inner layer of fat (partly interwoven with muscle). I didn't eat much of that fat, but my girlfriend really liked it. All in all, surely the best pork roast I've had. Tender, moist and pink. Of course, next time I'll fry some of the skin separately and serve it along with the roast. (Didn't do that yesterday as there were already too many courses.)

Interestingly, the juices in the bag where not much more than what I added with the stock cube. The beef that I've cooked sous-vide usually lost much more liquid (at even lower temperatures). Should I attribute this to the quality of the meat or to the cooling method?

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I'm putting together a DIY sousvide cooker with a PID controller.

What should I use for the circulating element? I was thinking something like an undergravel aquarium filter that's powered by an air bubbler.

As Lofty suggested, all you need is to put a tube from the air pump into the water. You don't need an airstone or anything. I recommend putting a backflow valve (they cost less than a dollar) on the tubing. Not much circulation is needed to keep the water temp uniform.

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the above is correct, but getting a small 'stone' they come in various lengths at the aquarium megalomart pet store they may set you back though $ (US) 1.59 :raz:

i use them because the 1) wt. keeps the tube on the bottom, and 2) they are way cool !

the check-value is also good and also cheap!

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An aquarium bubbler is a good option; use the air-stone as a weight, but cut a lateral hole in the silicon tube just above the air-stone; the larger bubbles will rise faster (more vigorous circulation) and cause less cooling and less sprinkling on the surface.

Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

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PedroG is always right.

but if you have a Coleman Cooler no evaporation no heat loss ( nominal )

well worth it in the long run.

and yes you can open the lid from time to time and peak.

:blink:

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My thought wasn't so much about the airstone, but with the plastic parts of the filter.

It's got a sieve type of thing that sits on the bottom that's connected to a pipe. The pump bubbles air through the pipe. So the water goes down through the sieve, then up through the pipe. Was thinking that it would be good hydraulics.

Good thing it looks like the air pump +- the stone will be enough.

I was going to use on of those cheapo styrofoam coolers at first.

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Has anyone done veal Parmesan and cooked the veal sous vide before breading and frying?

I was thinking about giving it a shot, but am concerned with overcooking the thin cut of meat. To prevent overcooking, I was going to sous vide, chill in an ice bath, coat with and shallow fry in 232C/450F oil for about 30 seconds until browned and warmed through.

Cooking them normally for sufficient time to brown the crumbs leads to perfectly cooked meat. Pre-cooking is most likely to lead to overcooking.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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