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adey73

Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 3)

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I was going to listen to your advice and pick one up but the price just went up $30!

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I was told that the new model has some improvements (but I don't yet have mine to verify it):

- new enclosure with better heat sinking, so it can handle up to 1800W heater.

- auto tuning, so you don't have to tune PID settings manually

- power output control - you can cut down power output like making a 2000W heater as a 1000W heater by specifying 50% power output.

- timer alarm buzz

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I wanted to post the results of my recent 48 hr brisket (@ 147F). The brisket was dry rubbed before being bagged. The meat came out tender and pink-tinged and flavorful -- the guests enjoyed it quite a bit. It was a bit drier than I would have liked -- but the texture was great -- not mushy and falling apart.

The brisket itself was a grocery store variety purchased as a whole brisket (about 15 lbs) that I cut in half -- I cooked what I guess was the flat.

I am guessing that there just wasn't enough marbling to create a 'juicy' brisket. When I look at the slices there are a few big veins of fat but not fine marbling -- so the meat is pretty dense hence the 'dryness'.

I am wondering if a Wagyu hybrid brisket has finer marbling and would result in a moister brisket.

I also am wondering if the salt in the dry-rub could have cause the juices to be drawn out of the meat (there was lots of juice in the back).

Has anyone had their brisket come out 'juicy'? If so, what was your meat source and how was it prepped?

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I've been using a Jaccard or having the butcher hit the cut with the one he's has in the back. Nathan mentions it up thread so maybe he has some empirical data to share. In a nutshell.. by severing the muscle fibers with a series of knife like spikes you reduce the amount of squeeze/contraction happening during the cooking that forces the juices out of the meat. To me it would seem that a brisket would suffer a lot from muscle contraction.

The Jaccard thingies are pretty cheap and can be found at most kitchen stores. I think I paid something around $10.


My soup looked like an above ground pool in a bad neighborhood.

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I was told that the new model has some improvements (but I don't yet have mine to verify it):

- new enclosure with better heat sinking, so it can handle up to 1800W heater.

- auto tuning, so you don't have to tune PID settings manually

- power output control - you can cut down power output like making a 2000W heater as a 1000W heater by specifying 50% power output.

- timer alarm buzz

The new model where? Auber or SousVideMagic? How can you tell which unit you are getting?

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Re. The brisket, by coincidence I happened to cook some last night. It was my worst sv experience ever! The meat had been bought in error and I only had 3hours to cook it. Boy was it tough -even though I'd ran it through the jaccard. So I can say for sure that you need to cook it for a lot more than 3 hours!

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I think that my post may have gotten lost at the end of the prior page.

(snip)

I have a few questions:

- In general, talk about contamination is for surface germs. If a Jaccard is used, does  it move surface contamination into the bulk, and is this a problem?

- I do lots of BBQing, and have followed the BBQ/SV mentions with great interest. I, for example, rub a brisket and then smoke it at 180-210 F for about 18 hrs. I'd like to transition this to SV (and plan to report once I do). For those who have done BBQ/SV hybrids:

- does the tendency of a little flavoring going a long way also carry over here? For example, is a little smoking (before SV) adequate or even overpowering? Is a little spice rub too much? (I like things pretty spicy, so I do a rather heavy rub/crust.)

- after the SV, is there a visible smoke ring?

- Any recommendations for pulled pork? From reading some comments way upstream, it seems like it might be closer to a confit than a lower-temperature SV.

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I was told that the new model has some improvements (but I don't yet have mine to verify it):

- new enclosure with better heat sinking, so it can handle up to 1800W heater.

- auto tuning, so you don't have to tune PID settings manually

- power output control - you can cut down power output like making a 2000W heater as a 1000W heater by specifying 50% power output.

- timer alarm buzz

The new model where? Auber or SousVideMagic? How can you tell which unit you are getting?

From SousVideMagic, the Model WS-1500A. They are taking orders (and then following up in email), but Auber shows it as out of stock (likely to be aiming for the new model).

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I have been following this forum for a couple of months since my friend introduced me to sous-vide cooking. Before I bought SousVide Magic, I did some research on both SousVideMagic and Auber about their PID controller. Basically, they are the same machine. Personally, I found that SousVideMagic's website has many useful info on sous-vide cooking with rice cookers and the support I got from freshmealssolutions.com has been great. The support guy there is quite knowledgeable in sous-vide cooking; he even helped me with a pork belly dish by giving me the recipe for the "Red" sauce using ginger, rice wine, star-anise, Sichuan peppercorns, five-spice, dark soy sauce and rock sugar. My family members are the guinea pigs, and they love the adventure.

This is my first post, I hope I can contribute a little since I have learned a LOT from this forum.

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I wonder if I can use Sous Vide (say 2 hours at 55C) to pastaurise fresh ravioli to give an extended shelf life?

Enough to kill the bugs but not cook the pasta.


Edited by jackal10 (log)

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Interesting - I guess bagging means there's no extra water for the starch to soak up and adversely affect either texture or the gelatinisation temperature in the final cook. But depending on the flour used won't you still get some degree of gelatinisation at 55c, just from the water content of the ravioli itself? (IRC some flours will begin to gelatinise as low as 52c. I believe durum wheat is one to avoid, as it gelatinises at a lower temp than regular wheat flour.)

If it doesn't work, maybe pasteurise the eggs before mixing the ravioli? Not sure how much the yolk and white textures change at that temp, but would have thought they'd remain fluid enough to work with.


restaurant, private catering, consultancy
feast for the senses / blog

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Jack, you should try some experiments with pasta to see what happens!

Spoilage bacteria are typically aerobic, so vacuum packing will retard them. That is part of the reason to vacuum pack in sous vide.

Pre-cooking at 55C for >1 hour should kill essentially all spoilage bacteria, and thus improve the keeping aspect even further. I am not sure whether it would be big difference from simply vacuum packing, but perhaps it would. It is worth trying.

The pre-cooking will not kill anaerobic spores, so keep the pasta very cold and don't keep too long (but 5 days should be fine, and longer if you keep near 1C - I put the FDA standards is a previous post).

As per the post above the pre-cooking may partially gelatinize starch in the pasta but I am not sure that this is bad, or that you'll be able to tell after the final cooking. Gelatinization is a key part of cooking pasta, and since you will ultimately gelatinize it in the final cooking, it may not matter if some gelatinization occurs early.

My guess is that you may need to cook the pasta less in the final cooking.


Nathan

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I think you will want to use bags intended for chamber vacuum machines for the pasta. If you use FS bags you are going to get some odd patterns in the pasta due to the texture of the bags used to promote the airflow during vacuum. I've used parchment paper in the bag on the side of the texture in FS bags to help reduce the "imprint" with some things. Might be worth a try.


My soup looked like an above ground pool in a bad neighborhood.

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I've just bought supermarket "fresh organic" totellini. Organic so no magic chemical ingredients, and the contents look perfectly reasonable.

It has a "use by" date of 3 weeks (21 April).

"pasta contains Durum Wheat Semolina, Pastaurised egg. Packed in a protective atmosphere"

Even in an oxygen reduced atmosphere I can't get damp flour to stay good that long. There must be some heap big juju there.


Edited by jackal10 (log)

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Looks like a winner. Suyi at Auber deserves everyones money ;) Of course, the "value added" resellers of Auber equipment should also get your dollars.

I like the new case. Sexy. The way the wire feet lift the unit off the surface is a nice touch when it's going to live around water.


My soup looked like an above ground pool in a bad neighborhood.

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I was wondering if anyone tried SV lobster for maybe 12 hours? I've been SVing lobster at 45C and unfortunately it still comes out too tough. I think that's just how lobster meat is. I don't think I've ever had lobster meat that was tender really. I was hoping leaving it to SV for 12-24 hours would do the trick. I want to know if anyone tried it, as I can't really afford to experiment with lobster too often.

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Cooking shellfish at only 113F (45C) for 12-24 hours is really dangerous! At that temperature, the common shellfish pathogens Salmonella spp., Staphylococcus aureus, and Clostridium botulinum can all grow and multiply. The heat resistant Clostridium perfringens (which grows at up to 127.5F {52.3C}) is not typically found in fin fish and shell fish; so it should be safe to sous vide fish at 125F (52C). At that temperature, it will take 383 minutes to pasteurize the fish (where Salmonella spp. is being used as the time-temperature standard for pasteurization). While the fiber-weakening enzymes may still be active at that temperature, collagen does not begin to dissolve into gelatin until 131F (55C).


My Guide: A Practical Guide to Sous Vide Cooking, which Harold McGee described as "a wonderful contribution."

My Book: Sous Vide for the Home Cook US EU/UK

My YouTube channel — a new work in progress.

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I was wondering if anyone tried SV lobster for maybe 12 hours?  I've been SVing lobster at 45C and unfortunately it still comes out too tough.  I think that's just how lobster meat is.  I don't think I've ever had lobster meat that was tender really.  I was hoping leaving it to SV for 12-24 hours would do the trick.  I want to know if anyone tried it, as I can't really afford to experiment with lobster too often.

I did lobster @42C for 15 minutes - excellent results. 45C is too high, and shellfish/lobster meat does not have a lot of connective tissue, so you don't need to cook it for 12+hours. Also, lobster is very lean, so add a little butter in your vacuum bag - it'll improve texture.


Edited by MikeTMD (log)

"It's not from my kitchen, it's from my heart"

Michael T.

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The support guy there [freshmealsolutions.com] is quite knowledgeable in sous-vide cooking; he even helped me with a pork belly dish by giving me the recipe for the "Red" sauce using ginger, rice wine, star-anise, Sichuan peppercorns, five-spice, dark soy sauce and rock sugar.  My family members are the guinea pigs, and they love the adventure.

I am salivating, having just eaten this dish for the first time in China recently. Would you mind posting the recipe?

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I have a question about whether or not a foodsaver can ever achieve the SV technique the same way a cryovac can. Using my foodsaver, it's mostly about getting all the air out so my package can stay submerged underwater. My meat still coagulates and lets its juiced run out it, no matter how tightly it's sealed. At the end of the process, my package still looks like a piece of meat floating around its own juices. SV at home is really about poaching a piece of meat in it's own juices. How tightly the meat is sealed is really not a factor for me. I really don't need the foodsaver at all; I can just suck out the air from a ziplock bag.

But from what I read, the amount of pressure used for meats using the cryovac machine is a big deal. So I guess the cryovac machine gives better results? It will keep the juices in the meat much more so than the average foodsaver?

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The vacuum will not change the amount of juice the meat loses; the temperature you cook it at will.

Try not letting it go over 55C/130F

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The support guy there [freshmealsolutions.com] is quite knowledgeable in sous-vide cooking; he even helped me with a pork belly dish by giving me the recipe for the "Red" sauce using ginger, rice wine, star-anise, Sichuan peppercorns, five-spice, dark soy sauce and rock sugar. My family members are the guinea pigs, and they love the adventure.


I am salivating, having just eaten this dish for the first time in China recently. Would you mind posting the recipe?




Hi Rich,
Here's the recipe from freshmealssolutions.com (SousVideMagic). This dish is quite rich, I suggest serving it with steamed Shanghai Bok Choi

Good luck, and let me know how it turns out. smile.gif

Braised (Sous-vided) Pork Belly in Master “Red” Sauce
Ingredients
For marinade
One slab of pork belly, about 2-3 lb (preferably including bones)
1/2 tablespoon white pepper
1/2 tablespoon five-spice
½ cup dark soy sauce
1/2 cup Shaoshing rice wine
1 cup vegetable oil for pan-frying
For sous-viding sauce
2 tablespoons minced fresh ginger
1 tablespoon minced garlic
2 tablespoons chopped green onion
1 piece star anise
½ tablespoon ground Sichuan peppercorns
1 big lump of rock sugar to taste
1 tablespoon hoisin sauce
1 cup preserved Chinese vegetable (Mei-chia) soaked, rinsed and chopped. (optional)
1 cup chicken/pork bone stock (gelatin quality)




Preparation
1.Rub the pork belly with marinade and leave for 3-4 hour.
2.Pat dry marinated pork belly with kitchen paper towel.
3.Heat the oil in a large frying pan until hot.
4.Brown the rind side of the pork until crisp
5.Brown the meat side slightly
6.Put the whole belly in an elongated sous-vide bag.
7.Prepare sous-viding sauce-- First brown ginger, garlic and onion and then add remaining ingredients and marinade and simmer for 15-20 minutes until sauce reduced by half and let it cool.
8.Add the sauce to the bag containing the pork belly.
9.Vacuum and seal bag with chamber vacuum machine. If you use Foodsaver, you may want to chill the sauce into gelatin first.
10.Set water bath temperature to 88C and sous-vide for 8-10 hours depending on how soft you want the texture to be. You can try 80C for 12-16 hours for less fat melt but more silky smooth fat texture.
11.Serving: Place pork rind up on a deep dish. Reduce sauce by boiling until thick and pour over pork belly. Garnish with fresh coriander.

[Moderator note: This topic continues in Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 4)]


Edited by Mjx Moderator note added. (log)

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