Jump to content
Forums offline 11pm CDT tonight, 3/23/2019 Read more... ×
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

francois

Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 2)

Recommended Posts

Reporting back on my Steak sous vide adventures. I SVd a really thick huge piece of wonderful dry aged steak seasoned only with some salt for 5 hours at 51C. To serve I grilled it for mere seconds over some charcoal at inferno heat levels. The charcoal smokiness added immeasurably to the final product. It was one of best steaks I've had. Next time I am going to try 6 or 7 hours for experimentation purposes - I'd like even more tenderness.

On to chicken - I want to SV some chicken pieces in some duck fat. I was thinking 1 hour at 140F or should I go longer or higher? I am planning or searing after for some of that ol' Maillard action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone sous vide'd monkfish? I have some in my fridge which i'm going to cook tonight, and it occurred to me that it might be good cooked sous vide as for lobster.

Any advice as to temperature? I know lobster is cooked between 115-130 if i remember, would like work for butter poached monkfish?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I followed Roca's directions in the past and it was fantastic. I believe monkfish is a great example where sous vide technique really helps the fish. I usually seared the fish quickly to add some color and texture after the bath. With the monkfish, I seared it once to taste it, but I prefered it without the searing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The monkfish came out very well. I didn't sear it before or after. I just put it in the bag with about a tablespoon of butter, and cooked at 48C for about 1 hour.

Served with tomato concasse' and shrimp veloute'

monkfish%20tomato%20shrimp_sm.jpg

It was excellent. Thanks for the help.


Edited by jmolinari (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we had some really nice Wild Striped Bass this past weekend... with some fairly large belly portions... cooked them(the bellies) with butter and a couple varieties of basil for 35 mins at 53 C... I couldnt have been more happy with the results, the garnishes were a very firm shrimp, some tomato water with anchovies macerated in it and some more micro basil. Seared the loins for another dish...


Edited by Joseph Fenush (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am interested in the results of the fish sous vides. I love rare meat and the results of the sous vide process on meat can be nothing short of phenomenal. But I am not so sure I like fish this way.

It is not that I don't like the texture or the idea - for example I love raw fish in sashimi and sushi - it is just that I find the taste or overall experience of sv fish kind of lacking. This is rather counterintuitive for me as we are always being told that fish really suffers from overcooking and would therefore seem to be an ideal candidate for the precision sv method. But I think the practical results are rather different.

We recently ate at a technically very good restauarant and everything was exellent with one exception - and that was the fish which had been cooked sous vide. It just lacked flavour and I don't think that the problem was the quality of the fish (wild sea bream) but just the technique of cooking itself.

My girlfriend is Italian and from a place where they cook a lot of fish and shellfish and she found it particularly unpalatable. Indeed in Italy fish is cooked much more fiercely than we often see it done here and it is normally absolutely delicious. It tends to have a roasted/maillard outside and a juicy inside but it normally not nearly as rare inside as we are used to being told to cook it.

Is the answer to adopt a similar method as we do with steaks (sv then grill or flash fry) or is SV not really so appropriate for fish cooking? I am not convinced that it makes fish anymore tasty than the traditional methods and sometimes in fact it comes well short.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe, maybe it depends on the type of fish and what you're trying to achieve? I I think that searing after SV will give the fish more texture and probably more flavor.

The fish should have as much flavor as you put in the bag. My monkfish was very delicate since all i put was salt and butter. It may be that you just don't care for the textures created by the SV for fish?

Not really sure. Hope someone with more SV knowledge answers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been doing a lot of king salmon sous vide lately, and I've decided that searing in the pan is not worth it: you lose so much of the beautiful silky texture. Particularly with a skin-on piece: by the time you're able to crisp the skin, half the fillet is overcooked.

I have had better results with just playing a blowtorch over the surface, getting just a little char, but not cooking the meat too deeply.

I'm also not a fan of the just-barely cooked salmon cuit sous vide that Roca and others go for. I like a firmer fish, about 48-49C core temp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason - I've tried a variety of fish types. I don't mind the texture I just don't find that I get that yummy umami mouthfeel with this technique and fish. For example I tried Monkfish SV and it was good but not really yummy like the same fish seared at a high heat and then finished in the oven.

I've also cooked trout (from a recipe by Tetsuya Wakuda) at a very low level and then finished with shredded seaweed. The texture is basically that of the SV fish but the recipe does suit this technique. And I enjoyed so the texture is not the problem but the lack of flavour is.

Al - good point about trying the fish slightly firmer - maybe that is the answer? I agree it would probably be problematic to sear and sv.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay still got to be convinced on the fish angle but I reckon that crustacea and other shellfish are great candidates for sous vide. I've tried shrimp and lobster and they both turned out beautifully.

Does anyone have some time/temperatures for squid?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joesan, have you tried hitting the fish with a blowtorch after it comes out of SV? Another possibility for a fillet with skin would be to take the skin off, crisp that separately in a pan, and then use the crispy skin as a garnish with the fillet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not see what I am looking for at this site -- or the other one mentioned.

I am looking for the specialty type vacuum bag that once it is vacuum sealed can be placed in 95C water for a few seconds. The sealed bag shrinks to closely conform to the shape of the material in the bag. The thusly shrunk bag and contents can then be processed as normal in a water bath.

This bag is useful for foods that have been shaped and so that they will retain that shape during cooking. Eg, a block shaped terrine or a cylinder shaped "sausage."

In his book, Roca refers to them simply as "shrink bags."

Anyone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MichaelB, I've searched for the shrink bags before and could only find them in huge quanities. Suitable for commercial operations but way more than I need. I specifically asked Nathan and he didn't know of any.

That chudypaper site doesn't have an online catalog - maybe an email enquiry would lead to more info?..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm working on a batch of 48-hour short ribs and the power in the kitchen went out last night (sometimes the fuses reset...it's frustrating). When I turned the circulator back on, the water was at 33/C, and I think the power was out for at least 4 hours.

Is there any danger involved here? They still have around 31 hours left to go.

Thanks in advance...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you have to toss the short ribs. It's not so much a matter of killing whatever bacteria might have grown during the time that the temperature was too low -- you know you can cook to sterilization over 31 hours. However, no amount of cooking will have an effect on any toxins that may have been produced during the period when the power was off. If, for example, you had some Clostridium botulinum growing in there and excreting botulin toxin during that period, you can cook those ribs until the cows come home and they'll still kill you dead as a doornail if you eat them. Probably this didn't happen... but it's a risk you can't take.


Edited by slkinsey (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MichaelB, I've searched for the shrink bags before and could only find them in huge quanities. Suitable for commercial operations but way more than I need. I specifically asked Nathan and he didn't know of any.

That chudypaper site doesn't have an online catalog - maybe an email enquiry would lead to more info?..

Thanks Edsel. I will take a place that works in commercial quantities. I have friends etc. that I can become the supplier to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, slkinsey.

I figured that to be safe, that was what I was going to have to do. Well, I got some replacement short ribs, and I plugged the circulator into a non-resetting plug (I know, I should have been doing that the whole time...lessons learned).

The first time I did these short ribs, I did a 36-hour process and it was great, but I really wanted to see how the meat's texture would change after 12 more hours. But the dinner party's tomorrow night, so 31 hours will have to do. :-)

I think you have to toss the short ribs...Clostridium botulinum...it's a risk you can't take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am looking for the specialty type vacuum bag that once it is vacuum sealed can be placed in 95C water for a few seconds.  The sealed bag shrinks to closely conform to the shape of the material in the bag.  The thusly shrunk bag  and contents can then be processed as normal in a water bath.

Gotcha. You want something like Cryovac then?

http://www.sealedair.com/eu/en/products/food/bags.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you have to toss the short ribs.  It's not so much a matter of killing whatever bacteria might have grown during the time that the temperature was too low -- you know you can cook to sterilization over 31 hours.  However, no amount of cooking will have an effect on any toxins that may have been produced during the period when the power was off.  If, for example, you had some Clostridium botulinum growing in there and excreting botulin toxin during that period, you can cook those ribs until the cows come home and they'll still kill you dead as a doornail if you eat them.  Probably this didn't happen... but it's a risk you can't take.

Just a quick fact on that topic... did you know that just 30 grams of botulin toxin can kill everyone in the entire country? I find that to be quite incredible. I just found that out a few days ago. But don't get me wrong, Im still an advocate of sous vide, but I will no longer give the prep guy or someone not trained enough to do anything with sous vide cookery.

-Chef Johnny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fortunately Clostridium botulinum is killed by an acid environment, so if your recipe contains vinegar or lemon juice or wine its probably (but not definitely OK). Its why many old recipes and pickles are acidic. Even so I would not feed them to the very old or young or the immune challenged. Might eat them myself tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Similar Content

    • By lindaj1
      Is there any recipe from the modernist universe or any other galaxy to make ketogenic (low carb) puff pastry and strudel type doughs?  Unusual ingredients OK.  There must be a way...
    • By haresfur
      I got to thinking after the disgusting job of separating globs of fat from sous vide short ribs and debating never doing them that way again. If the fat renders out in a braise, but not in the sous vide, what temperature would you need to turn the fat liquid to get rid of it? Is it below well-done or do you really have to cook the shit out of it? Is it just temperature or a time&temperature thing?
       
      Along those lines, what happens with marbled, tender cuts? where is the sweet spot between solid fat and something more palatable?
    • By Daily Gullet Staff
      By John Sconzo

      The Daily Gullet is proud to present this, the first in a multi-part, front-row report on the recent "Spain and the World Table" conference. Watch for subsequent installments in this topic.

      In his introduction of Ferran Adria, Thomas Keller -- perhaps the most celebrated American chef ever -- described four elements that go into making a great chef. The chef must be aware. Once aware of one’s culinary and other surroundings that chef can then be inspired, which leads to the ability to interpret those surroundings. But a great chef does not stop there. Instead, the great chef continues to evolve. Ferran Adria, perhaps more than any other chef who has ever lived, is the embodiment of those four elements.

      The moment that Ferran Adria strode towards Thomas Keller on the stage at the CIA/Greystone’s World of Flavors’ “Spain and the World Table” Conference was electric -- as if a giant Van de Graf generator had been turned on. The feeling didn’t subside when Adria took the stage from Keller; it only became more pronounced as the packed crowd rose to its feet, raining applause, admiration and love on the Spanish master. Adria accepted the response with aplomb, and gave it right back to the audience -- and to his fellow Spanish cocineros, who were standing off to the side. He brought each one up to join him on the stage for a rousing thank-you to the conference organizers, sponsors and participants. Once this emotional release subsided, Adria got down to what everyone had been waiting for -- his discussion and demonstration.

      Ferran Adria, with eyes sparkling like the finest cava, began speaking Spanish in a voice as gravelly as the beaches of the Costa Brava, while Conference Chairman Jose Andres translated. The crowd, hushed and straining for every word, moved forward in their seats as Adria explained El Bulli and himself, with a lesson in recent culinary history thrown in. Ferran explained that El Bulli is not a business. While offshoots of El Bulli are operated on a for-profit basis, the restaurant runs without profit as a primary motivation. For example, he said, the greatest difficulty they have is distributing reservations. Given the extraordinary demand and the severely limited supply, he explained that they could simply raise the price of a meal to the point where the supply and demand met. Indeed, the price of a meal at El Bulli is in itself quite reasonable given the stature of the restaurant and well within means of most motivated diners should they be able to get there, and this is how Adria prefers it. He stated that he was not interested in cooking solely for those with the most money. He prefers to work for people with a true interest in exploring the limits of cooking with him. To this end he showed a short film depicting “A Day in the Life . . .” of El Bulli set to the Beatles’ song of the same name. The film showed a couple’s response to the experience.

      Ferran’s voyage into creativity began with a visit to Jacques Maxima at Le Chanticleer Restaurant in Nice, France. He learned from Maxima that to be creative is not to copy. This idea changed his entire approach to cooking -- from making classic cuisine to making his own. Aware of elaborate books of French cuisine, Adria resolved to catalogue his work, the results of which are the richly detailed El Bulli books, published by period. These books, as wonderful as they are, are huge and extremely expensive. During his presentation, Adria announced -- and demonstrated -- that the individual dishes photographed and described in a chronology within each book are all now available online at elbulli.com.

      He finished the philosophical discussion by talking about the general style of haute cuisine that he and others are engaged in. While others have coined the term “molecular gastronomy” to highlight the scientific component of the creativity involved, Adria rejected it, saying that all cooking is molecular: most of his techniques are in fact rather simple and don’t employ radical new technology. Most of the technology that they do use has been around for some time; they have simply adapted it to their own purposes. Nevertheless, he applauds contributions to gastronomy from Harold McGee and other food scientists, and welcomes their collaboration in the kitchen. He has yet to find a term that describes the movement: as of now, he feels that there really is no good name for this style of cooking.

      More than any other single thing, Ferran Adria is known for the use of “foams” in cooking. While he is proud of his achievements with foams, he stressed that while appropriate in some circumstances, the real utility of foams is limited. He bemoans their ubiquity -- and wishes to not be blamed for others’ poor deployment of the concept. In the course of describing this and other techniques, Adria made a point of stating that using them should not be inferred as copying. Techniques and concepts are to be used and shared. He invited everyone to learn and harness whatever they found interesting, and to employ it in to their own pursuits.

      Another set of techniques discussed and demonstrated by the master and his assistant, Rafa Morales from Hacienda Benazuza, included three types of spherification. These included the use of calcium chloride (CaCl) and sodium alginate as well as the converse, and exploration of a new agent, gluconodeltalactone. The original combinations of alginate into CaCl for “caviar” production, and CaCl into alginate for larger “spheres” have chemistry-related limits as to what can be sphericized. In private correspondence, Harold McGee explained to me that Adria described encapsulating a mussel in its own juice. While this would make the dish technically an aspic, unlike conventional aspics it remains a liquid. Adria said that though gluconodeltalactone is very new, and they are just beginning to get a handle on it, he is very excited by it. He also demonstrated a machine for spherification on a larger scale than they had originally been able to do, as well as liquid nitrogen and freeze-drying (lyophilization) techniques. At the conclusion of his demonstration -- and thus the Conference -- the audience once again awarded him a standing ovation.

      While Adria’s appearance was the culmination of the conference, the energy it produced was not just because of his stature in the world of gastronomy -- it was also due to the excitement generated by the conference that preceded it. If there had previously been any doubt, Thomas Keller’s welcome of Adria was a clarion: Spanish cuisine has landed on North American shores and is finding a niche in the North American psyche. Spanish cuisine -- in its multifaceted, delicious entirety -- lives here, too.

      + + + + +

      John M. Sconzo, M.D., aka docsconz, is an anesthesiologist practicing in upstate New York. He grew up in Brooklyn in an Italian-American home, in which food was an important component of family life. It still is. His passions include good food, wine and travel. John's gastronomic interests in upstate northeastern New York involve finding top-notch local producers of ingredients and those who use them well. A dedicated amateur, John has no plans to ditch his current career for one in the food industry. Host, New York.
    • By docsconz
      About Jose Andres
       
      Throughout his career, Jose’s vision and imaginative creations have drawn the praise of the public, the press and his peers. José has received awards and recognition from Food Arts, Bon Appetit, Food & Wine, Saveur, the James Beard Foundation, Wine Spectator, and Wine Advocate. In addition, José has been featured in leading food magazines such as Gourmet as well as the New York Times, the Washington Post, Good Morning America, Fox Sunday Morning News with Chris Wallace, the Food Network, and USA Today.
       
      Widely acknowledged as the premiere Spanish chef cooking in America, José is a developer and Conference Chairman for the upcoming Worlds of Flavor Conference on Spain and the World Table at The Culinary Institute of America at Greystone, November 2 – 5, 2006.
       
      In 1993, Jose moved to Washington, DC, to head the kitchen at Jaleo. From there, Jose took on executive chef responsibilities at neighboring Café Atlantico and later Zaytinya. In July of 2003, Jose embarked on his most adventurous project to date with the opening of the minibar by jose andres at Cafe Atlantico. A six-seat restaurant within a restaurant, minibar by jose andres continues to attract international attention with its innovative tasting menu. In the fall of 2004, Jose opened a third Jaleo and Oyamel, an authentic Mexican small plates restaurant and launched the THINKfoodTANK, an institution devoted to the research and development of ideas about food, all with a view toward their practical applications in the kitchen.
       
      Every week, millions of Spaniards invite Jose into their home where he is the host and producer of “Vamos a cocinar”, a food program on Television Española (TVE), Spanish national television. The program airs in the United States and Latin America on TVE Internacional.
       
      Jose released his first cookbook this year, first published in English, Tapas: A Taste of Spain in America (published in the United States by Clarkson Potter) and shortly after in Spanish, Los fogones de José Andrés (published by Planeta). The book is an homage to Spanish cooking and to tapas, one of Spain's gifts to the world of good cooking.
       
      Jose Andres is passionate, intelligent, dedicated, witty and a fan of FC Barcelona.
       
      Jose has been a member of the eGullet Society since 2004.
       
      More on Jose Andres in the eG Forums:
      Cooking with "Tapas" by Jose Andres
      Vamos a Cocinar - cooking show with Jose Andres
      Jaleo
      José Andrés' Minibar
      Zaytinya
      Oyamel Cocina Mexicana, Crystal City
      Cafe Atlantico
       
      Jose Andres recipes from Tapas in RecipeGullet:
      Potatoes Rioja-Style with Chorizo (Patatas a la Riojana)
      Moorish-Style Chickpea and Spinach Stew
      Squid with Caramelized Onions
    • By gibbs
      With Modernist Cuisine I waited a couple of years and ended up with a copy from the 6th printing run the advantage of this was that all errors picked up in the erratta had been corrected in the print copy.  I am looking to get modernist bread soon and wondered if someone had purchased it recently to check or if someone knew of hand if they have printed any additional corrected runs 
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×