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JoNorvelleWalker

Home Made Ice Cream (2013– )

493 posts in this topic

What are your views on using insects in ice cream making???

 

Personally I'll probably draw the line at honey, but if you're less squeamish about creepy crawlies, what's to stop you? 

You might have to be careful to keep the extra-crispy ants from breaking apart.

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I'm working

 

Ruben,

Thanks for the explanation. My ice cream machine is broken, as soon as it is repaired i will try your method. I may put my cream in the 70C oven to let it evaporate, all that stirring just won't work for me, then i'll put the mix sous vide. Do you have an idea how much should i let the cream reduce?

 

I've been looking for an easier way to make ice cream.  My body can't do the stirring anymore, not to mention the manual temperature control.

 

I had the idea to try condensed milk, since other than pasteurization it is not subject to high heat.  For the first attempt, this was my mix:

 

500 ml heavy cream

200 gm condensed milk (half a can)

20 gm trehalose

6 large egg yolks 

1/8 teaspoon salt

1 Tablespoon vanilla paste (approximate)

 

 

Note that 200 gm condensed milk includes 110 gm sucrose.  I blended everything up in the Cuisinart and vacuum bagged with some difficulty.  I cooked at 71.4 deg C for four hours.  (That was the easy part.)  And chilled in an ice bath 16 hours, then spun for 20 minutes.  I usually spin for 15 minutes, but this wasn't getting hard enough.  I then hardened for about ten hours.

 

Well, it never did get as hard as I would like.  Clearly the solids are too high.  And the texture is a bit sandy.  I believe this is caused by excess lactic acid in the mix.  It's a little sweeter than I would like, but pretty close.  No iciness at all, and no off flavors.  Not my best but I have had much worse.

 

If I try this again, and I probably will since I have a lot of condensed milk, I think I'll up the amount of cream.

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In the above I meant "excess lactose" not "excess lactic acid".

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Jo, can you fill us in a bit about trehalose? It's your most unconventional ingredient, and seems like a wild card in terms of its freezing point suppression and other structural effects. 


Are you using the condensed milk for its particular flavor?


 


The general formula for making ice cream harder is either less sugar overall, or a higher percentage of sucrose vs. monosacharides. Professor wikipedia says tremolose is a disaccharide (2 glucoses) but that may not tell the whole story. Also I don’t know just how condensed condensed milk is, so the total milk solids are another wild card. But I’m guessing you’re right that the the graininess comes from too many milk solids.


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Ok, I just figured out the deal on trehalose. It's even less sweet than sucrose. This means that to achieve a given level of sweetness you need to use a ton of it—double the quantity of sucrose. Makes sense then that it would make ice cream soft. 

I see it being marketed as healthy, but I have trouble understanding how something that encourages you to double your sugar intake could be healthy. Popular health lit loves sugar fads ... alternately idolizing and demonizing different forms of sugar. But the differences once they're in your body are extremely small. There's very little metabolism involved before it's all just glucose. The only real health problems from sugar concern eating too much of it, so I'd be wary of this stuff.

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I never said trehalose was healthy.  Some people believe trehalose is a healthy alternative to other sugars used in ice cream because trehalose does not cause a spike in blood glucose the way sucrose or fructose does.  This is not my concern.  Your mileage may vary.

 

My wish would be that this thread not devolve into a discussion of the healthfulness of ice cream or its ingredients.  A previous time this topic turned to health effects of sugars in ice cream the tone of discourse got somewhat testy, in my opinion.  I would like to avoid repeating that if possible.

 

What I care about for myself is taste and texture.  From what I have read most humans can metabolize trehalose just fine.  Some people cannot.  If this is the case, don't eat insects, honey, mushrooms, and please do not put trehalose in your ice cream.  Disclaimer, I am a biochemist by training but I am not a physician.

 

My reference recipe is:

 

heavy cream 750 ml

whole milk 250 ml

medium/large egg yolks 6

sugar (sucrose) 90 g

trehalose 20 g

kosher salt pinch

vanilla paste 1 tablespoon

 

 

Ruben's method calls for reducing the volume by 32 pecent -- let's say a third.  My thought in using condensed milk is that someone has already wrung out much of the water by vacuum evaporation so I don't have to.  I just can't do it anymore.  Though Ruben's method still produces the best ice cream I (or my grandkids) have ever had.  My kitchen does not yet have a rotovap.

 

Getting back to my most recent experiment:  I now believe the problem was not sandiness, eg. lactose crystals.  The texture is dry, but try as I might I can't detect crystals on my tongue.  I still think the solution is to increase the amount of cream.

 

 

Edit:  I forgot to mention that after a day in the freezer the ice cream hardened up just fine.  Though the texture is still "dry".  I am unsure exactly what this means.


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

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Jo, I’m just curious about the reasons for trehalose in the recipe. It’s a big wild card; I don’t see anything in the standard ice cream literature about it. Since almost everything effects the texture of ice cream, especially sugars, it’s really hard to troubleshoot a recipe when there’s such an unknown quantity. So naturally, my first question is if the trehalose is necessary. It would be easy to get a creamy texture, and whatever sweetness level you want with a blend of more conventional sugars. 


 


I’m assuming you have some pretty strong reason for specifying the trehalose, and I’m wondering what it might be.


 


Re: increasing the cream … the proportion of cream is already very high. This is at the upper ends of richness among recipes I’ve seen.


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I reported some of my experiments with trehalose in post #211:

 

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/144208-home-made-ice-cream-2013/?p=1925826

 

Of the sugars available to me trehalose suggested itself because of its capacity for water binding and for stabilizing proteins.  And most importantly because of its relative lack of sweetness.  Trehalose allows me to achieve the (lack of) sweetness and hardness that I want in my ice cream -- at least with my standard recipe, the condensed milk recipe is a work in progress.

 

So far none of my trehalose containing batches have turned icy even after weeks in the freezer.  If eGullet were ahead of the standard ice cream literature, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

The only reason I started playing with condensed milk is the difficulty in preparing my standard mix.  I have a feeling that using condensed milk is not that good of a solution.  Now that I have an Anova for temperature control I am hoping to devise an automated setup that will allow me to evaporate water from my standard mix.  I am not there yet.  If cost were no object to the perfect ice cream I would get a rotovap.  (And a laboratory in which to set it up.)  Though I believe all I really need for the purpose is the flask itself and the part of the rotovap that rotates the flask.  Atmospheric pressure should work, so no need of a vacuum.  I don't need to capture the distilate, so no need of a condenser.

 

If anyone is aware of a source for a flask rotating thingy, please let me know.  I suspect there may be other culinary uses for such a device beyond ice cream.

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Jo, have you considered using a magnetic stirring hot plate for ice cream making? It stirs the mix and keeps it at a constant temperature, meaning that you don't have to stand around stirring for an hour. I don't think a rotovap is a necessity in the ice cream kitchen. Although not the cheapest piece of equipment, a magnetic stirring hot plate might is a must in my opinion.

 

http://ika.com/owa/ika/catalog.product_detail?iProduct=3487000&iCS=1&iProductgroup=188&iSubgroup=1

 

I have also seen some cheap IKA hot plates on e-bay.

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Ahhh, ok, thanks. I missed your earlier post on the trehalose. That's an interesting application for it.

 

Re: rotovap ... I've been coveting one for years. Ruben is right that it's not necessary. But you could say the same thing about ice cream ...

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I reported some of my experiments with trehalose in post #211:

 

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/144208-home-made-ice-cream-2013/?p=1925826

 

Of the sugars available to me trehalose suggested itself because of its capacity for water binding and for stabilizing proteins.  And most importantly because of its relative lack of sweetness.  Trehalose allows me to achieve the (lack of) sweetness and hardness that I want in my ice cream -- at least with my standard recipe, the condensed milk recipe is a work in progress.

 

So far none of my trehalose containing batches have turned icy even after weeks in the freezer.  If eGullet were ahead of the standard ice cream literature, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

The only reason I started playing with condensed milk is the difficulty in preparing my standard mix.  I have a feeling that using condensed milk is not that good of a solution.  Now that I have an Anova for temperature control I am hoping to devise an automated setup that will allow me to evaporate water from my standard mix.  I am not there yet.  If cost were no object to the perfect ice cream I would get a rotovap.  (And a laboratory in which to set it up.)  Though I believe all I really need for the purpose is the flask itself and the part of the rotovap that rotates the flask.  Atmospheric pressure should work, so no need of a vacuum.  I don't need to capture the distilate, so no need of a condenser.

 

If anyone is aware of a source for a flask rotating thingy, please let me know.  I suspect there may be other culinary uses for such a device beyond ice cream.

I have one of those flask rotating thingies.  Haven't made a lot of use of it.  Perhaps we should talk!

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What is the source for it, Kerry?  Do you have a link?

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Ruben, have you been using a stirring hot plate for your ice cream mix?  If so what sort of vessel do you use and how well does it work for you?.

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I've been using a stirring hot plate for about 2 months now. Works well, keeps hands free, but it takes a little bit of time (about 15 mins to get break 70C) to bring mixes up to temperature. Not a big deal if you're heating the mixture for an hour.

I use a stainless steel mixing bowl with a wide surface area at the base, thinner the base the better. Metal should work just a as well as glass since it's just heat transfer

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Interesting, thanks.  I would not have thought the stirring would work properly through stainless steel.  I recall from reading the manual that Corning specifies that only glass containers be used with their stirring hot plates.  What make of stirring hot plate do you have?

 

I'm enjoying my first ice cream soda of the season as I write this!

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I thought it was you who first told me about the stirring hot plates. Is there no end to your brilliance Jo!

 

I have indeed been using a magnetic stirring hot plate to make my mixes and it has proven indispensable. I use the IKA C MAG 7 and will be getting another one shortly. I'd recommend looking on e-bay for a cheaper used model.

 

http://icecreamscience.com/2013/10/02/innovation-in-the-kitchen/

 

I use a stainless steel pan, which is fine as long as it isn't magnetic. I have used a glass container but prefer using a larger stainless steel pan. I have had to tweek my technique slightly as the stirring hot plate doesn't evaporate as much water as manual stirring does, probably because it agitates the mix less than manual stirring. I have also had to buy a larger triangle-shaped stirring bar to increase the stirring rate.

 

Let me know if you decide to get one and need a hand setting it up.

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2e3azaja.jpg

This is the magnetic stirring hot plate that I'm using. I believe it's an older model of what Ruben is using. I purchase a large triangle shaped stirring rod for this. Also, the pot that I'm using in this picture is not the one that I'm current using (this pic was of my first attempt before purchasing the right size stainless steel mixing bowl from Muji).


Edited by timpoblete (log)

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Looks good Tim. I'm getting magnetic stirring hot plate envy. Did you not get an external temperature probe that connects to the machine with yours?

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Ruben, does the temperature probe feed temperature information to the machine so that the machine adjusts appropriately or does the machine simply power the probe? Haven't decided if I need one yet.

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What is the source for it, Kerry?  Do you have a link?

Jo - here is a picture of it when I was playing with it up north.  The brand is Buchi Brinkman - older model of course but new glassware.  

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Ruben, does the temperature probe feed temperature information to the machine so that the machine adjusts appropriately or does the machine simply power the probe? Haven't decided if I need one yet.

 

The temperature probe completes the feedback loop to control the hot plate temperature.

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Here you go Jo.  Looks like Chef Rubber is selling them now.

 

Looks the same as Polyscience.  Polyscience has received about as much (or way more) of my recent income as I can afford.  Sad.

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