• Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

  • product-image-quickten.png.a40203b506711f7664fc62024e54a584.pngDid you know that these all-volunteer forums are operated by the 501(c)3 not-for-profit Society for Culinary Arts & Letters? This holiday season, consider a tax-deductible Quick Ten Bucks to support the eG Forums and help us remain completely advertising-free. Thanks to all those who have donated so far!

Bojana

Cooking duck breast sous vide

18 posts in this topic

I plan to serve duck breast for dinner I have in few days. Was wandering about the right sequence of events - does anyone have advice?

Sequence:

Whole duck breast

Day 1: Jaccard+ Dry rub (spices + salt), 24 hours

Day 2: 30 min pan to render fat under the skin, cool, vacuum and back to fridge

Day3: Sous vide for ~60 min at 60C, then quickly pan sear

I am unsure about the rendering step before sous vide - effect on final taste but also food safty. I am trying to avoind 30 min rendering after sous vide on the night of the dinner.

Any suggestions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm mildly concerned about jaccarding and safety, too; since you're leaving the dry rub on long enough to penetrate the meat without jaccarding, I'm not sure it's worth it.

How low of a temperature are you planning on using, if you're rendering out the fat for half an hour?

I generally start a duck breast skin side down in a cold pan, turn the heat to medium, and just keep an eye on it. Takes maybe 15 minutes for most of the fat to render out and leave the skin nicely crisped and browned (at this point, being a Luddite about this sort of thing, I turn up the heat, flip the breast, and brown the other side for a few minutes, which gives me a nice pink centre and well browned exterior).

If you're doing this sous vide, you might just want to remove the skin and crisp it between a couple of Silpats; in a bag, it's just going to be flabby (after dirtying a pan, to boot).


Michaela, aka "Mjx"
Manager, eG Forums
mscioscia@egstaff.org

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never cooked sous vide, but i have cooked duck breast before. I too would think that rendering out the fat and crisping the skin by cooking it for 30 minutes, even at a low heat, would cook the meat a good deal.

In any case, I am interested in the answer to this. I like duck breast, but I do have "issues" cooking the skin to a nice crispness and rendering the fat without overcooking the meat. I'm sure sous vide is a great way to handle the meat, but don't quite know how the skin gets handled. Cooking it separate, as Michaela suggests, seems like the best approach.


Jeff Meeker, aka "jsmeeker"
jmeeker@eGullet.org

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just in case you dont want them to make sous vide, here is my failsafe and very perfect way to make duckbreasts. it worked all the time for me!

cut crosses in the breasts skin.

place the breasts in a COLD pan without any oil or fat, skinside down, and put on high heat.

grill is until brown and nice on both sides.

then place in the oven, 25-30 minuted at 100 degrees celsius.

after that repeat the first step placing the breast, this time only skinside down, in a cold pan without fat and create a nice crispy skin.

you wont be disappointed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the same problem that you have with chicken, which is how do you get the skin crispy while cooking the breast perfectly. Duck has the added complication of rendering off the extra layer of fat.

My own preference would be to remove the skin and fat completely and apply the dry rub without jaccarding. Removing the skin means that you'll get better overall penetration of the rub over the 24 hr period and not jaccarding means you will not potentially be pushing potential pathogens into the meat.

My personal preference for duck breast is to have it pink so I'd probably treat it more like a steak and cook it at 57C for an hour or so.

To make the skin crispy, you cook it by putting it between two baking trays sandwiched two silpats with weights on top of the top tray. Given the fat that will render off, I'd additionally put an inverted tray on top of the bottom baking tray to give a place for the fat to flow into. So you'd have (bottom tray, inverted tray, silpat, skin, silpat, top tray). Cook it at 180C (350F) to crisp it and render off the fat. Trim the skin to make it neat and then serve the skin chip on top of your perfectly cooked duck breast.


Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks so far. I actually make a killer duck breast, with brown crispy skin and moist pink meat, first in 70C oven (vacuum packed) for an hour, then finish in the pan. My duck may have a very thick fat layer bc rendering takes me forever, even scored. 30 mins is maybe too high of an estimate but it takes long. I was hoping to get sous vide to give me this flexibility with the timing of the courses plus a new experience. I could also do jaccard after dry rub and before sous vide. Nick's method is probably closest to what i need but i am still curious about browning meat and fiishing in sous vide later (day later)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the general consensus is to cook first and then brown. Doing it the other way around softens the crust and consequently seems to subjectively reduce the maillard effect.


Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would probably just skip the jaccarding.

I cook a lot of duck breasts at home, most of the time sous vide. Be aware that getting a great crisp skin on a duck breast after its been cooked sous vide is not a sure bet, somehting about the cooking process makes it hard to get a really crispy skin without cooking the meat past your sous vide temp. I have started going with alternate presentations and cooking the breast and the duck skin separately. I serve the breast sliced skin/fat off along with fried crispy duck skin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did duck breast last weekend and did it the same way as Twyst, taking off the skin and baking it in the oven between two silpats with somethin on top to keep them flat. I normally do 2 hours at 58° and no jaccarding before. just s+p and some thyme into the bag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all, I will do as advised, taking the skin off and will try 58C as well.

Will post the pics after Monday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually do it the way most do, remove the skin, then sv at 57... but I was wondering - what if you did skin on SV first, then chilled completely, then skin side down in a medium pan. Maybe by the time the fat renders, the meat will be brought back up to temp without going too high?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually do it the way most do, remove the skin, then sv at 57... but I was wondering - what if you did skin on SV first, then chilled completely, then skin side down in a medium pan. Maybe by the time the fat renders, the meat will be brought back up to temp without going too high?

I do that with turkey breast and don't have a problem with doneness of the breast after frying skin down in oil. Comes out great. But that's a much bigger piece of meat than a duck which might well overcook while frying. Experimentation is called-for. One might intentionally undercook during the SV phase...


Edited by gfweb (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe not very useful for a dinner at home, but I love how chef Seiji Yamamote of restaurant Ryugin uses liquid nitrogen to prevent the duck meat from cooking while crisping up its skin in this movie:


Edited by Hendrik (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as the duckbreast has far more fat under the skin, you can't compare it to turkey. it takes much longer to get the fat rendered and the skin crispy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sous vide at 140 degrees for 45-60 minutes. (use duck fat or butter in the bag, leave the skin on the breast) the day before, refrigerate.

the following day (or within the week), remove from the frdige/bag, season at this point, score the skin/fat.

render the fat and crisp the skin (and rewarm the breast) in a saute pan, skin side down, then flip over and 1-2 minutes on the other side to finish rewarming - serve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was delicious! Meat tender and succulent and the skin crispy. I separated the two and baked skin in the oven, meat SV at 57 for 2 hours.

photo6.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks delicious, well done!


Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to have been covered, but I used to do duck breast at 58 for 50 minutes, and got nice pink results. I found that searing the skin both pre and post SV aided in both rendering and crisping the skin.


James.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By eG Forums Host
      Introduction

      Welcome to the index for the Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques, & Equipment topic, one of the largest and most influential topics on eG Forums. (The topic has been closed to keep the index stable and reliable; you can find another general SV discussion topic here.) This index is intended to help you navigate the thousands of posts and discussions to make this rich resource more useful and accessible.

      In order to understand sous vide cooking, it's best to clear up some misconceptions and explain some basics. Sous vide cooking involves vacuum-sealing food in a plastic bag and cooking it in a water bath at precise temperatures. Though it translates literally as "under vacuum," "Sous vide" is often taken to mean "under pressure," which is a misnomer; not all SV cooking involves food cooked in conditions that exceed atmospheric pressure. (See below.) In addition, calculations for SV cooking involve not only time and temperature but also thickness. Finally, due to the anaerobic conditions inside the bag and the low temperatures used, food safety issues are paramount.

      You can read the basics of SV cooking and equipment here. In the summer of 2005, Nathan Myhrvold (Society member nathanm) posted this informative, "I'm now going to answer my own initial questions" post, which addresses just about everything up to that point. For what came next, read on -- and be sure to order Nathan Myhrvold's highly anticipated Modernist Cuisine book, due in spring 2011.

      As with all indexes of on-going discussions, this one has limitations. We've done our best to create a user-friendly taxonomy emphasizing the categories that have come up repeatedly. In addition, the science, technology, and recipes changed over time, and opinions varied greatly, so be sure to read updated information whenever possible.

      Therefore, we strongly encourage you to keep these issues in mind when reading the topic, and particularly when considering controversial topics related to food safety, doneness, delta T cooking, and so on. Don't read a first post's definitive claim without reading down the topic, where you'll likely find discussion, if not heated debate or refutation, of that claim. Links go to the first post in a series that may be discontinuous, so be sure to scan a bit more to get the full discussion.

      Recipes were chosen based solely on having a clear set of information, not on merit. Indeed, we've included several stated failures for reference. Where possible, recipes include temperature and time in the link label -- but remember that thickness is also a crucial variable in many SV preparations. (See below for more information on thickness.)

      History, Philosophy & Value of SV/LTLT Cooking

      Over the years, we've talked quite a bit about SV as a concept, starting with this discussion about how SV cooking got started. There have also been several people who asked, Why bother with SV in the first place? (See also this discussion.) What with all the electronics and plastic bags, we asked: Does SV food lack passion? Finally, there have been several discussions about the value of SV cooking in other eG Forums topics, such as the future of SV cooking, No More Sous Vide -- PLEASE!, is SV "real cooking," and what's the appeal of SV?

      Those who embrace SV initially seek ideas about the best applications for their new equipment. Discussions have focused on what a first SV meal should be -- see also this discussion -- and on the items for which SV/LTLT cooking is best suited. There's much more along those lines here, here, and here.

      Vacuums and Pressure in Sous Vide Cooking

      As mentioned above, there has been great confusion about vacuums, pressure, and their role SV cooking. Here is a selection of discussion points on the subject, arranged chronologically; please note that later posts in a given discussion may refute earlier ones:

      Do you need a vacuum for SV cooking, and, if so, why? What exactly is a "vacuum"? Click here, here, and ff. Are items in vacuum-sealed bags "under pressure"? Does a vacuum sealer create a vacuum inside the bag? Do you really need a vacuum, or can you use ZipLoc bags? Also see here, here, and here. If "sous vide" means "under pressure," aren't the items in the bag under pressure? There is more along these lines to be found in this discussion.  

      The Charts

      We've collected the most important of many charts in the SV topic here. Standing above the rest are Nathan Myhrvold's charts for cooking time versus thickness and desired core temperature. We worked with him to create these three reformatted protein tables, for beef, fish, and chicken & pork.

      Nathan provides additional information on his charts here. Information on how to read these charts can be found in this post. For an explanation of "rest time" in Nathan's tables, click here.

      Other Society members helped out as well. Douglas Baldwin references his heating time table for different geometric factors (slab/cylinder/sphere) here; the pdf itself can be found here. pounce created a post with all three tables as neatly formatted images. derekslager created two monospace font charts of Nathan's meat table and his fish table.

      Camano Chef created a cumulative chart with information gathered from other sources including Thomas Keller's Ad Hoc. Douglas Baldwin shared this chart devoted to pasteurizing poultry. PedroG detailed heat loss and steady state energy consumption of sous vide cookers in these charts.

      Finally, there is also an eG Forums topic on cooling rates that may be of interest.

      Acknowledgment & Comments

      This index was built by Chris Amirault, Director, eG Forums. It was reviewed by the eGullet Society volunteer team as well as many Society members. Please send questions or comments to Chris via messenger or email.
       
       
    • By TdeV
      Wikipedia defines pork wings as: a pork product made from the fibula of a pig's shank - a single bone surrounded by lean, tender meat.
      Images from the internet look like a finger-size bit of meat around a bone.
      Mine, however, look more like the meat (lots) which surrounds a bone. My butcher called this cut pork wings.
      You can see on the right that there's a small amount of bone.
         
       
      My butcher said he regularly ate SEVERAL of these. But this one measures 15 oz (425g).
      He also said it had to be cooked slowly.
       
      So, if I cook these sous vide, what temp and for how long?
    • By jedovaty
      Good morning!
       
      Long story short: I am doing a spin off the coconut/chocolate/almond candy (almond joy), and trying to create a specific shape out of the almond.  My hands are cramped after a couple dozen failed attempts whittling roasted almonds, so now I'd like to try a different approach, and instead, create some kind of sub-candy or cookie with roasted almonds that I can put into a mold or use a mini cookie cutter.  I'm fairly new to sweets, my knowledge in this area is pretty slim.  Some ideas so far, I don't like any, but it might help turn some gears:
      1. dusting almond over a stencil, but that's not enough almond nor crunchy enough
      2. almond brittle, but that's too hard and sweet, I'd like it more of a soft crunch, and bringing the almond flavor forward
      3. meringue with almonds (sort of macaron-ish), however, weather has been humid and raining here, and I'm ending up with a gooey mess instead of that soft crunch
       
      In addition to having almond-forward taste and soft crunch texture, it'd be fun to explore something modernish - I have a accumulated a few tools and ingredients not customarily found in homes.
       
      There are dietary considerations I will have to account for, however, no need to worry about that now, I am just looking for ideas and a place to take it from there
       
      Thank you for your time in reading!
    • By Franzisaurus_Rex
      FOOD BRETHREN!
      I need some advice. I have one last piece of pork belly confit in the fridge. I brined these bitches for about 5 days (brine included pink curing salt), vacuum sealed the squares of pork belly with lard and sous vide them at 158 F for 16 hours. I cooked this on 11/10/16 and its been in my refrigerator since. 
      Here is the general recipe I followed, with some modifications based on my taste: https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/...
      The last piece is still vacuum sealed and submerged (mostly) in lard. Any visible pork only has contact with the bag. 
      It's staring at me. And calling my name.
      I want to deep fry this sucker and have a little date night with the handsome devil I see in the mirror every morning, but the last thing I want is spoiled food. I can't find any conclusive information about how long pork confit lasts for. I've only seen references that duck confit or in general that the confit technique will last for months in the fridge. I have found no sources which directly addresses pork confit.
      Questions/Factors I'm Considering:
      - Does pork confit keep for as long as duck confit?
      - Does vacuum sealing have any effect on the length of preservation?
      - Does sous-vide cooking method affect the length of preservation?
      I know I am probably being a bit paranoid, but I thought I would do my due diligence before taking the plunge, so to speak. Any advice on these questions would be extremely helpful and appreciated!
      The Franzisaurus-Rex
      PS - you should totally make this if you are into sous vide, confit, food, or have any respect for the enjoyment of life. Flash-searing these things after cooking was OUT OF THIS WORLD.
    • By JoNorvelleWalker
      The NY Times has a current article in the science section "A Universe of Bubbles in Every Champagne Bottle".
       
      The article asserts that it is better to serve Champagne at warmer than refrigerator temperatures so that the bubbles are larger and convey more flavor.  Also to serve in a narrow glass.
       
      However Gerard Liger-Belair (who is referenced as an authority in the Times article) points out in his book Uncorked (forward by Herve This) that the colder the wine the more viscous and the more dissolved CO2.  Liger-Belair also prefers a goblet to a flute.  I bought Uncorked after reading about it in Liquid Intelligence from Dave Arnold.
       
      Discuss.
       
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.