• Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

jmolinari

Curing and Cooking with Ruhlman & Polcyn's "Charcuterie" (Part 5)

538 posts in this topic

Tristar, that link's not working for me.  Can you post it again?  The sausages sound really interesting!

Hi Abra, sorry the link didn't work, thanks MarkinHouston for copying and pasting the recipe.

If you just click on "Nungkysman: Food for the Body and the Soul." on the bottom of my post it will take you to my Blog and you should be able to find the recipe under the 'Sausages' category.


"Don't be shy, just give it a try!"

Nungkysman: Food for the Body and the Soul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made the duck prosciutto from this book ..I followed the directions exactly (almost a miracle for me) and ended up hanging it for about 12 days instead of seven because it did not seem firm enough...it smells kind of neutral and tastes actually just like proscuitto with duck undertones ..I love the flavor and can see it for sure matching up perfectly with the figs I have growing on my trees!!!.. I have a question about the texture ..I let it hang in my laundry room 40-55 degrees maybe and ti is still kind of squishy..it does not feel "raw" per se ..but it does feel even in your mouth like it has the moisture content of cold smoked salmon ..it is soft and moist...as I said it does not feel or taste like raw duck ..it tastes just like proscuitto with a lox texture almost ...not like the moist dryish texture of most proscuitto I have eaten I know it should not be salami dry but it seems wetter than my mind says it should be ..so that is why I am asking ..because really I dont know!

is this making sense ..any advice ..feedback ..or is this what is expected and embrace the texture? I dont mind it all! this is really very good I think ...as is ..I am just not sure if it is right

thanks so much!


Edited by hummingbirdkiss (log)

why am I always at the bottom and why is everything so high? 

why must there be so little me and so much sky?

Piglet 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm placing an order with Butcher Packer for larger casings for salami and some Bactoferm. I notice a new variety - the F-LC that looks interesting. It's a mixed culture and says it better controls listeria. Also has a larger range of fermentation temps than the others. Anyone use it yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i'm also interested in trying the different cultures at BP, i want one which doesn't have a strong sour flavor.

let us know how that F-LC works.

jason

Jason, I think it was you who said they noticed that the sour flavor dissipated after a few weeks. Well I am noticing that as well, to the point where I no longer think the product tastes sour at all. Now I only think it doesn't have enough fennel in it, but I couldn't tell before. I suspect the cultures that they advertise as having milder flavor will be very mild after three or four weeks post cure.

By the way, I e-mailed Len Poli to ask him more about how we uses starter cultures because I was curious after reading the book and couldn't find a lot on the web that cleared it up for me. Here is part of his reply...

For the good Italian flavor use Bactoferm LHP or Bactoferm F-LC. Dissolve about 1 teaspoon of dry spores in a quarter cup of bottled water and use that as a starter. The opened culture will keep (especially for home use) for over a year is kept airtight and frozen in the coldest part of the freezer. The shorter life span quoted is done so that commercial uses are guaranteed consistency in their products month after month.

Those that make salami without cultures can be very successful. In fact that's the way they were made commercially up to the '80's until people kept getting infected with E.coli. Why take a chance? E. coli won't kill you (unless you've got a compromised immune system of other problem0 but you'll sure spend a long time sitting or praying to the porcelain god.

Len


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BRM: yeah, i think i did say that. I'm looking forward to trying F-LC for a mild flavor.

If you're worried about the bacterial life, i have a package that is well over a year and a half old, in a vacuum bag, in the freezer, and last i used it, it was still good.

As far as the E.Coli, i don't know. I know in Italy there are still many people who don't use starter cultures. Many of hte small butchers don't, and many of the DOP and IGP dictates don't allow the use of starter cultures for salame. I sure there is more risk, but given the popularity of NOT using them in Italy, i can't immagine it being much higher, IF you're careful with everything (extreme cleanliness etc).

I'm torn between their use or not.

jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was pretty sour (pun intended) on their use right after I took my finnochiona out of the curing process, but as the flavor has mellowed I am thinking that it might not be worth the risk not to use them, especially at the lower amounts that Len recommends. Doubly so if there is a type of culture that has an even less pronounced flavor than the RM-52 that I used.

I have to figure out how to get the humidity up in my old refrigerator and then I am going to do some more. The second batch of dry cured I put in their hardened on the outside.


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
an ultrasonic humidifier works well. Don't get the ones with the wicks, they mold.

You can Pick em up at the thrift store for next to nothing...

And, you are correct that a month or two of additional time in the refrig. make the flavors much much better. I was glad I forgot some in a bag for a while...

Bud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I put in my order yesterday for F-LC and some other supplies. I plan to use it next week in peperoni and salami. I hadn't been to the BP site in a while and was glad to see they've added more info on their products. For instance, I didn't know that you could re-salt natural casings after they've been soaked and store them like that for a long time. I'd just been leaving them in water and hoping to use them up, but did end up tossing some when they got an off odor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
an ultrasonic humidifier works well. Don't get the ones with the wicks, they mold.

You can Pick em up at the thrift store for next to nothing...

Bud

I've been looking around and haven't found anything yet. It's probably not a good time of year to be looking. I've seen a few here and there but most are too big to fit in my fridge.


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
an ultrasonic humidifier works well. Don't get the ones with the wicks, they mold.

You can Pick em up at the thrift store for next to nothing...

Bud

I've been looking around and haven't found anything yet. It's probably not a good time of year to be looking. I've seen a few here and there but most are too big to fit in my fridge.

Since you are in Mpls the dew points in summer are probably in the mid to high 50's. When you cool that block of air to 60º you will be well within the suitable humidity. so you wont need one till fall...

Bud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Since you are in Mpls  the dew points in summer are probably in the mid to high 50's. When you cool that block of air to 60º you will be well within the suitable humidity. so you wont need one till fall...

Bud

Good point.


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys, I think this is the thread to post this question...

Ok, my first attempt at Brine Curing two Hams,

I had read two alternative Brine Recipes so I decided to try one of each,

Hugh FearnlyWhittingstall's said about 330g of Salt per litre of water,

Ruhlman's (from memory) was about 55g of Salt per litre of water .... you can see the difference

Hugh uses a LOT of salt compared to Ruhlam, mmmm,

HOWEVER in the heat of killing / butchering the Pig, I misunderstood Ruhlman's recipe, he says for every 2 kilos, keep the pork (pig) in his brine solution for 12 hours, (not 12 day :huh: ).

I've kept both Hams in the two brines for 7 days now, I went to turn them yesterday morning and found that in Ruhlman's brine recipe the liquid has turned cloudy and a small spot of green mould had appered on the surface of the water (Hugh's is as clear or the same as 7 days ago), I removed the Ham, it has a very faint ... hint of a smell, I'm still not used to the smell of raw meat ... but I thought I could smell something extra as well as that raw smell, and if I'm not mistaken I thought that the liquid (as I poured it down the sink) was thicker. This 'suspect' ham is now wrapped in cling film sitting in a very cold fridge (oh by the way I put a piece of Pork Belly in this brine 3 days ago... it seems fine).

QUESTION, bearing in mind that the ham will be boiled / simmered for some time, is it safe to eat the Ham, can it be saved, and WHAT HAPPENED - should I be concerned ... this is my first time ..... HELP

Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only recipe for brined ham I can find in Ruhlman's book is the American-style brown sugar glazed ham on page 93. It calls for 350 grams of kosher salt and 360 grams of brown sugar per gallon of water and a curing time of 6-8 days (1/2 day per pound). Ruhlman's recipe also calls for 42 grams of pink salt which would help with the bacterial growth.

What was the other brine recipe? and how are you going to finish both?


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi BRM,

the All Purpose Brine was the one I followed, 50 grams of salt to one litre of water (or 225g to 1 gallon, which is what I followed, I also added 42 grams of 'pink' salt) the next page gives brine times, for every kilo of pork, 12 hours; but the figures you have quoted are very close, 77.7 grams of salt to one litre of water (or 350 grams per gallon).

The Ham has turned a brown / grey / green colour at the edges, it does have a faint unpleasant smell, and around the discolouration there is a slight sticky slime, instead of normal water / moisture? I've decided to get rid of it. The Pork Belly however is fine, it was only on the Brine for a 2 to 2 1/2 days, I thoroughly inspected it last night and it appears fine, tonight I'll turn it into Rillons.

The Hams came from the same animal, prepared in the same kitchen, each knife / pan / bucket was thoroughly washed .... the ONLY difference between the two hams was the Brines, one had a LOT more salt, the other had a LOT less salt, I can't help but feel I'm missing something :hmmm:

Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I checked Jane Grigson's book, Charcuterie and French Pork Cookery. She lists a brine which she refers to as an English brine and a good all-purpose one. The recipe is:

5 pints of soft or rain water

3/4 lb. sea salt

3/4 lb. granulated or brown sugar

2 oz. saltpetre

She recommends a curing time of a minimum of 3 days and a maximum of 30.

These proprtions seem similar to Ruhlman's. I can only guess that something happened this ham that didn't to the other one. If it has an unpleasant odor and is green then, if it were me, I would toss it. It doesn't seem worth the risk.

Don't dispair, we've all ruined stuff.


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi  BRM,

the All Purpose Brine was the one I followed, 50 grams of salt to one litre of water (or 225g to 1 gallon, which is what I followed, I also added 42 grams of 'pink' salt) the next page gives brine times, for every kilo of pork, 12 hours; but the figures you have quoted are very close, 77.7 grams of salt to one litre of water (or 350 grams per gallon).

The Ham has turned a brown / grey / green colour at the edges, it does have a faint unpleasant smell, and around the discolouration there is a slight sticky slime, instead of normal water / moisture? I've decided to get rid of it. The Pork Belly however is fine, it was only on the Brine for a 2 to 2 1/2 days, I thoroughly inspected it last night and it appears fine, tonight I'll turn it into Rillons.

The Hams came from the same animal, prepared in the same kitchen, each knife / pan / bucket was thoroughly washed .... the ONLY difference between the two hams was the Brines, one had a LOT more salt, the other had a LOT less salt, I can't help but feel I'm missing something  :hmmm:

Jon.

The strength of the cure seems a bit weak..

Len poli's site has a total salt of 115gper liter, of which 27.5g is pink salt...for 48 hours and then a 12 hour dry .

All is done in a refrig.

Then he smokes it to 140º...

Bud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that it may just have been 'the ham', but I still feel that if I had used a stronger salt concentration then it could have prevented / hindered it going bad. It's good to know that I'm not the only one :biggrin:

Still..... I consoled myself last night in making Rillons , absolutely GREAT, and they are SOO Easy to make, and taste fantastic; my Tamworth pig is known for it's Long Sides, so they have a Lot of Bacon (pork belly / back), and the flavour is amazing.

Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I figured this was as good a place as any to ask if anyone knows where I can get figatelli in the US. I dont mind paying the shipping. I just had some in Rome and it was outrageous. I believe it is a pork liver based salami from Corsica. Does anyone have any info? Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably fEgatelli. Means "little livers".

I can't even begin to think where you'd get it. Looks like you might have to start making it:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe, but the use of uncooked pork liver...hrmmmm...not sure sure about that one raw/cured filter organ...

I agree, that is a nonstarter. I had a friend that raised hogs tell me to never eat pork liver....and raw??

I have ignored his advice from time to time, but still remember it...

Bud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just made some Liver Pate, from my Tamworth, it has a STRONG taste, but that was last week, I tasted it last night, and it is actually very good :biggrin: for my very first attempt, I'm quite pleased :biggrin:

Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Similar Content

    • By yoboseyo
      Novice at meat-curer looking for advice. I'm making 2 pancettas this season.
       
      The first one I used the over-salting technique. What I didn't expect was that the salt would all turn into brine in a day, and I expected that I could scrape away the excess salt at the end. Instead, I left it on the brine for too long, and the result was too salty. The meat firmed up in 2 days so I should've taken it out then.
       
      For my second one, which is currently in the fridge, I used the equilibrium salting technique. I added about 100g salt for 3.5kg meat. The problem now is that it's not firming up seemingly at all! It has been 9 days in the fridge, and flipping it every day or 2. After 6 days, however, there was no pool of brine left. I put the meat in a folded over but unsealed bag. Did the brine evaporate or resoak into the meat?
       
      Any advice on how to continue would be appreciated.
    • By davidcross
      I made some Lonza and cured it for 2 weeks.
       
      In the drying chamber (70% humidity and 55F with gentle air flow) it's only been 4 days but it's already lost 30% of its pre-drying chamber weight. Normally that can take weeks.
       
      Is that normal, and is the meat ready?
       
      Thank you
    • By davidcross
      My first Guanciale is looking good. It smells clean, fresh, and is firming up nicely after about 3 weeks in the curing chamber at 65% humidity and 55F. First piece slices nicely and it seems great.
       
      I've a question…
       
      On the outside are some tiny white/straw-colored flecks (ignore darker flecks - this is some remaining Thyme from the cure).
       
      They do not penetrate the skin and I am not sure whether it's mold or salt coming out or fat or what.
       
      Thoughts? Likely safe?
       
      Thank you



    • By Lisa Shock
      The team over at Modernist Cuisine announced today that their next project will be an in-depth exploration of bread. I personally am very excited about this, I had been hoping their next project would be in the baking and pastry realm. Additionally, Francisco Migoya will be head chef and Peter Reinhart will assignments editor for this project which is expected to be a multi-volume affair.
    • By Chris Hennes
      While not a new cookbook by any means, I haven't really had time to dig into this one until now. We've previously discussed the recipes in Jerusalem: A Cookbook, but not much has been said about Plenty. So, here goes...
       
      Chickpea saute with Greek yogurt (p. 211)
       

       
      This was a great way to kick off my time with this book. The flavors were outstanding, particularly the use of the caraway seeds and lemon juice. I used freshly-cooked Rancho Gordo chickpeas, which of course helps! The recipe was not totally trivial, but considering the flavors developed, if you don't count the time to cook the chickpeas it came together very quickly. I highly recommend this dish.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.