Curing and Cooking with Ruhlman & Polcyn's "Charcuterie" (Part 5)

[tristar]

Tristar, that link's not working for me.  Can you post it again?  The sausages sound really interesting!

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Hi Abra, sorry the link didn't work, thanks MarkinHouston for copying and pasting the recipe.

If you just click on "Nungkysman: Food for the Body and the Soul." on the bottom of my post it will take you to my Blog and you should be able to find the recipe under the 'Sausages' category.

[hummingbirdkiss]

I made the duck prosciutto from this book ..I followed the directions exactly (almost a miracle for me) and ended up hanging it for about 12 days instead of seven because it did not seem firm enough...it smells kind of neutral and tastes actually just like proscuitto with duck undertones ..I love the flavor and can see it for sure matching up perfectly with the figs I have growing on my trees!!!.. I have a question about the texture ..I let it hang in my laundry room 40-55 degrees maybe and ti is still kind of squishy..it does not feel "raw" per se ..but it does feel even in your mouth like it has the moisture content of cold smoked salmon ..it is soft and moist...as I said it does not feel or taste like raw duck ..it tastes just like proscuitto with a lox texture almost ...not like the moist dryish texture of most proscuitto I have eaten I know it should not be salami dry but it seems wetter than my mind says it should be ..so that is why I am asking ..because really I dont know!

is this making sense ..any advice ..feedback ..or is this what is expected and embrace the texture? I dont mind it all! this is really very good I think ...as is ..I am just not sure if it is right

thanks so much!

Edited May 3, 2007 by hummingbirdkiss (log)

[Pallee]

I'm placing an order with Butcher Packer for larger casings for salami and some Bactoferm. I notice a new variety - the F-LC that looks interesting. It's a mixed culture and says it better controls listeria. Also has a larger range of fermentation temps than the others. Anyone use it yet?

[jmolinari]

i haven't, but i have found an interesting page that describes the effects of different bacteria on flavor, acidity and meat safety.

http://www.danlac.com/docs/ApplicationGuideBioCarna.pdf

i'm also interested in trying the different cultures at BP, i want one which doesn't have a strong sour flavor.

let us know how that F-LC works.

jason

[BRM]

i'm also interested in trying the different cultures at BP, i want one which doesn't have a strong sour flavor.

let us know how that F-LC works.

jason

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Jason, I think it was you who said they noticed that the sour flavor dissipated after a few weeks. Well I am noticing that as well, to the point where I no longer think the product tastes sour at all. Now I only think it doesn't have enough fennel in it, but I couldn't tell before. I suspect the cultures that they advertise as having milder flavor will be very mild after three or four weeks post cure.

By the way, I e-mailed Len Poli to ask him more about how we uses starter cultures because I was curious after reading the book and couldn't find a lot on the web that cleared it up for me. Here is part of his reply...

For the good Italian flavor use Bactoferm LHP or Bactoferm F-LC. Dissolve about 1 teaspoon of dry spores in a quarter cup of bottled water and use that as a starter. The opened culture will keep (especially for home use) for over a year is kept airtight and frozen in the coldest part of the freezer. The shorter life span quoted is done so that commercial uses are guaranteed consistency in their products month after month.

Those that make salami without cultures can be very successful. In fact that's the way they were made commercially up to the '80's until people kept getting infected with E.coli. Why take a chance? E. coli won't kill you (unless you've got a compromised immune system of other problem0 but you'll sure spend a long time sitting or praying to the porcelain god.

Len

[jmolinari]

BRM: yeah, i think i did say that. I'm looking forward to trying F-LC for a mild flavor.

If you're worried about the bacterial life, i have a package that is well over a year and a half old, in a vacuum bag, in the freezer, and last i used it, it was still good.

As far as the E.Coli, i don't know. I know in Italy there are still many people who don't use starter cultures. Many of hte small butchers don't, and many of the DOP and IGP dictates don't allow the use of starter cultures for salame. I sure there is more risk, but given the popularity of NOT using them in Italy, i can't immagine it being much higher, IF you're careful with everything (extreme cleanliness etc).

I'm torn between their use or not.

jason

[BRM]

I was pretty sour (pun intended) on their use right after I took my finnochiona out of the curing process, but as the flavor has mellowed I am thinking that it might not be worth the risk not to use them, especially at the lower amounts that Len recommends. Doubly so if there is a type of culture that has an even less pronounced flavor than the RM-52 that I used.

I have to figure out how to get the humidity up in my old refrigerator and then I am going to do some more. The second batch of dry cured I put in their hardened on the outside.

[jmolinari]

an ultrasonic humidifier works well. Don't get the ones with the wicks, they mold.

[qrn]

an ultrasonic humidifier works well. Don't get the ones with the wicks, they mold.

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You can Pick em up at the thrift store for next to nothing...

And, you are correct that a month or two of additional time in the refrig. make the flavors much much better. I was glad I forgot some in a bag for a while...

Bud

[Pallee]

I put in my order yesterday for F-LC and some other supplies. I plan to use it next week in peperoni and salami. I hadn't been to the BP site in a while and was glad to see they've added more info on their products. For instance, I didn't know that you could re-salt natural casings after they've been soaked and store them like that for a long time. I'd just been leaving them in water and hoping to use them up, but did end up tossing some when they got an off odor.

[BRM]

an ultrasonic humidifier works well. Don't get the ones with the wicks, they mold.

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You can Pick em up at the thrift store for next to nothing...

Bud

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I've been looking around and haven't found anything yet. It's probably not a good time of year to be looking. I've seen a few here and there but most are too big to fit in my fridge.

[qrn]

an ultrasonic humidifier works well. Don't get the ones with the wicks, they mold.

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You can Pick em up at the thrift store for next to nothing...

Bud

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I've been looking around and haven't found anything yet. It's probably not a good time of year to be looking. I've seen a few here and there but most are too big to fit in my fridge.

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Since you are in Mpls the dew points in summer are probably in the mid to high 50's. When you cool that block of air to 60º you will be well within the suitable humidity. so you wont need one till fall...

Bud

[BRM]

Since you are in Mpls  the dew points in summer are probably in the mid to high 50's. When you cool that block of air to 60º you will be well within the suitable humidity. so you wont need one till fall...

Bud

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Good point.

[Jon234567890]

Hi guys, I think this is the thread to post this question...

Ok, my first attempt at Brine Curing two Hams,

I had read two alternative Brine Recipes so I decided to try one of each,

Hugh FearnlyWhittingstall's said about 330g of Salt per litre of water,

Ruhlman's (from memory) was about 55g of Salt per litre of water .... you can see the difference

Hugh uses a LOT of salt compared to Ruhlam, mmmm,

HOWEVER in the heat of killing / butchering the Pig, I misunderstood Ruhlman's recipe, he says for every 2 kilos, keep the pork (pig) in his brine solution for 12 hours, (not 12 day ).

I've kept both Hams in the two brines for 7 days now, I went to turn them yesterday morning and found that in Ruhlman's brine recipe the liquid has turned cloudy and a small spot of green mould had appered on the surface of the water (Hugh's is as clear or the same as 7 days ago), I removed the Ham, it has a very faint ... hint of a smell, I'm still not used to the smell of raw meat ... but I thought I could smell something extra as well as that raw smell, and if I'm not mistaken I thought that the liquid (as I poured it down the sink) was thicker. This 'suspect' ham is now wrapped in cling film sitting in a very cold fridge (oh by the way I put a piece of Pork Belly in this brine 3 days ago... it seems fine).

QUESTION, bearing in mind that the ham will be boiled / simmered for some time, is it safe to eat the Ham, can it be saved, and WHAT HAPPENED - should I be concerned ... this is my first time ..... HELP

Jon.

[BRM]

The only recipe for brined ham I can find in Ruhlman's book is the American-style brown sugar glazed ham on page 93. It calls for 350 grams of kosher salt and 360 grams of brown sugar per gallon of water and a curing time of 6-8 days (1/2 day per pound). Ruhlman's recipe also calls for 42 grams of pink salt which would help with the bacterial growth.

What was the other brine recipe? and how are you going to finish both?

[Jon234567890]

Hi BRM,

the All Purpose Brine was the one I followed, 50 grams of salt to one litre of water (or 225g to 1 gallon, which is what I followed, I also added 42 grams of 'pink' salt) the next page gives brine times, for every kilo of pork, 12 hours; but the figures you have quoted are very close, 77.7 grams of salt to one litre of water (or 350 grams per gallon).

The Ham has turned a brown / grey / green colour at the edges, it does have a faint unpleasant smell, and around the discolouration there is a slight sticky slime, instead of normal water / moisture? I've decided to get rid of it. The Pork Belly however is fine, it was only on the Brine for a 2 to 2 1/2 days, I thoroughly inspected it last night and it appears fine, tonight I'll turn it into Rillons.

The Hams came from the same animal, prepared in the same kitchen, each knife / pan / bucket was thoroughly washed .... the ONLY difference between the two hams was the Brines, one had a LOT more salt, the other had a LOT less salt, I can't help but feel I'm missing something

Jon.

[BRM]

I checked Jane Grigson's book, Charcuterie and French Pork Cookery. She lists a brine which she refers to as an English brine and a good all-purpose one. The recipe is:

5 pints of soft or rain water

3/4 lb. sea salt

3/4 lb. granulated or brown sugar

2 oz. saltpetre

She recommends a curing time of a minimum of 3 days and a maximum of 30.

These proprtions seem similar to Ruhlman's. I can only guess that something happened this ham that didn't to the other one. If it has an unpleasant odor and is green then, if it were me, I would toss it. It doesn't seem worth the risk.

Don't dispair, we've all ruined stuff.

[qrn]

Hi  BRM,

the All Purpose Brine was the one I followed, 50 grams of salt to one litre of water (or 225g to 1 gallon, which is what I followed, I also added 42 grams of 'pink' salt) the next page gives brine times, for every kilo of pork, 12 hours; but the figures you have quoted are very close, 77.7 grams of salt to one litre of water (or 350 grams per gallon).

The Ham has turned a brown / grey / green colour at the edges, it does have a faint unpleasant smell, and around the discolouration there is a slight sticky slime, instead of normal water / moisture? I've decided to get rid of it. The Pork Belly however is fine, it was only on the Brine for a 2 to 2 1/2 days, I thoroughly inspected it last night and it appears fine, tonight I'll turn it into Rillons.

The Hams came from the same animal, prepared in the same kitchen, each knife / pan / bucket was thoroughly washed .... the ONLY difference between the two hams was the Brines, one had a LOT more salt, the other had a LOT less salt, I can't help but feel I'm missing something 

Jon.

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The strength of the cure seems a bit weak..

Len poli's site has a total salt of 115gper liter, of which 27.5g is pink salt...for 48 hours and then a 12 hour dry .

All is done in a refrig.

Then he smokes it to 140º...

Bud

[Jon234567890]

yes, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that it may just have been 'the ham', but I still feel that if I had used a stronger salt concentration then it could have prevented / hindered it going bad. It's good to know that I'm not the only one

Still..... I consoled myself last night in making Rillons , absolutely GREAT, and they are SOO Easy to make, and taste fantastic; my Tamworth pig is known for it's Long Sides, so they have a Lot of Bacon (pork belly / back), and the flavour is amazing.

Jon.

[The Blissful Glutton]

I figured this was as good a place as any to ask if anyone knows where I can get figatelli in the US. I dont mind paying the shipping. I just had some in Rome and it was outrageous. I believe it is a pork liver based salami from Corsica. Does anyone have any info? Thanks in advance.

[jmolinari]

Probably fEgatelli. Means "little livers".

I can't even begin to think where you'd get it. Looks like you might have to start making it:)

[The Blissful Glutton]

Probably fEgatelli. Means "little livers".

I can't even begin to think where you'd get it. Looks like you might have to start making it:)

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How about you make me some JMO?

[jmolinari]

Maybe, but the use of uncooked pork liver...hrmmmm...not sure sure about that one raw/cured filter organ...

[qrn]

Maybe, but the use of uncooked pork liver...hrmmmm...not sure sure about that one raw/cured filter organ...

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I agree, that is a nonstarter. I had a friend that raised hogs tell me to never eat pork liver....and raw??

I have ignored his advice from time to time, but still remember it...

Bud

[Jon234567890]

I've just made some Liver Pate, from my Tamworth, it has a STRONG taste, but that was last week, I tasted it last night, and it is actually very good for my very first attempt, I'm quite pleased

Jon