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Bombdog

Curing and Cooking with Ruhlman & Polcyn's "Charcuterie" (Part 4)

600 posts in this topic

noob question....

Pork Back Fat & Fat Back = same thing?

-Mike

Yes indeed. The only thing you need to do is make sure it's fresh, not salted fat back, which is very common in our area.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Hi Guys,

Looking for a little modification help with the recipe for Sweet Pickle Chips on pg 298. 

I recently had BBQ at a place that served what they called "Texas Hellfire Chips".  Essentially these were sweet pickle chips with a really hot chaser and they were amazing.  Best pickles I've had!

I'm thinking of adding hot pepper flakes to both step 1 and 2.

Anyone seen or made these before?  Thoughts?

Thanks!

-Mike

I add chili flakes to my dill pickles. A tablespoon per quart makes some nicely spicy hot pickles. I don't see why it wouldn't do the same to sweet pickles. Sounds good to me!

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I asked that question last year as well, and here's Paula's answer -

QUOTE(Pallee @ Nov 27 2005, 01:11 PM)

I want to make the Toulouse Sausages. The instructions call for fatback but there it's not listed in the ingredients. Any ideas on how much fatback to add?

I'm really sorry about this error.

I've sent the correction to the publisher.

Here is the correct list of meats to be used in the sausage:

4 ounces very lean salt pork without rind, washed to remove surface salt, dried carefully and cubed by hand.

12 ounces pork tenderloin, trimmed of all fat

4 ounces pancetta, at room temperature

I hate to contradict the extraordinarily knowledgeable Paula Wolfert but when making sausage, all your ingredients should be as cold as they can be, without actually being frozen. I don't understand why one would recommend 'room temperature' for any ingredient in sausage. I don't see how that could possibly help the finished product.

=R=

Does anyone have an opinion as to why Wolfert specifies pork tenderloin for her Toulouse sausage? This seems to be the equivalent to using filet mignon to make meatloaf.


Monterey Bay area

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Does anyone have an opinion as to why Wolfert specifies pork tenderloin for her Toulouse sausage? This seems to be the equivalent to using filet mignon to make meatloaf.

My guess is that tenderloin is virtually devoid of fat and that by using it (in combination with fatback) one can more accurately control the amount of fat in the recipe. Using shoulder does tend to be more of a guessing game, although it's fairly hard to guess wrong. Of course, I cannot say for sure that using tenderloin isn't the most 'authentic' way to make Toulouse. But given the nature of sausages and how most of them came to be, that does seem somewhat unlikely.

=R=


"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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Does anyone have an opinion as to why Wolfert specifies pork tenderloin for her Toulouse sausage? This seems to be the equivalent to using filet mignon to make meatloaf.

My guess is that tenderloin is virtually devoid of fat and that by using it (in combination with fatback) one can more accurately control the amount of fat in the recipe. Using shoulder does tend to be more of a guessing game, although it's fairly hard to guess wrong. Of course, I cannot say for sure that using tenderloin isn't the most 'authentic' way to make Toulouse. But given the nature of sausages and how most of them came to be, that does seem somewhat unlikely.

=R=

You're probably right about the "lean" - Jane Grigson's 1967 "Art of Making Sausages, Pates & Other Charcuterie" version calls for 3 parts "lean pork from neck or shoulder" to 1 part "hard fat back". At half the price of tenderloin, I think loin would be suitable - and you don't have to deal with those pesky silverskins.


Monterey Bay area

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I think the charcuterie's of Toulouse would have a good laugh at the thought of pork tenderloin or loin going into there Toulouse sausage!

Norman Walsh

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This thread has certainly been an inspiration to me. I'd been eyeballing the book for longer than I care to admit. The book arrived Friday afternoon, yesterday morning was spent looking for fatback (no joy alas) but the duck prosciutto has been started and I made a batch of garlic sausage as well yesterday (slightly tweaked it by adding more garlic, fresh rosemary and a habanero).

I don't have casings yet so made several 1/2 pound logs. I made a smallish terrine of it as well- cooked to internal temp of 150, chilled and sliced thin. Wow. I'm hooked.


Edited by 6ppc (log)

Jon

--formerly known as 6ppc--

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Late to the party here (story of my life). The garlic sausage was/is awesome- just scored a couple of bellies (go Cambodian market) curing now -- 1 X bacon 1 X pancetta :). OK fatback sources anyone?? Seriously jonesing for lardo.... None since my last trip to Italy in October.

Thx


Jon

--formerly known as 6ppc--

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Late to the party here (story of my life).  The garlic sausage was/is awesome- just scored a couple of bellies (go Cambodian market) curing now -- 1 X bacon 1 X pancetta :). OK fatback sources anyone??  Seriously jonesing for lardo.... None since my last trip to Italy in October.

Thx

Sounds good, 6ppc.

For fatback, I usually order from Niman Ranch, on-line. They sell it in 5# increments, iirc. I cut it into 1/2# pieces, vacuum seal them, and store them in the freezer until I'm ready to use them. I have a great local butcher and even he has trouble sourcing fatback; especially of Niman's quality.

=R=


"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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Nieman's seems out ATM - checked there earlier today. The Cambodian butcher was also in search of fat :(


Jon

--formerly known as 6ppc--

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Well reading this thread got me hooked and I ordered the book. I've made the duck procuitto and was happy and confident enough to go ahead and try the fresh bacon and the pancetta. The results have been fantastic.

Finding pink salt locally in Canada proved to be and interesting exercise, but I managed to get 2 different types. First was called "Ready cure" from Canada CompoundCanada Compound. I got the spec sheet on this product and it was about 1% Sodium Nitrite. The second product was a closer match to pink salt and I found this one at Malabar Super Spice and it's called "Sure cure" and it contained 6% sodium nitrite.

I found a whole belly (about 10lbs) at a local Asian market for $21cdn. Split it in half, 1 for the fresh bacon and other pancetta. I decided to add maple syrup to the bacon cure since i wouldn't be able smoke it.

The bacon came out great, I will never again buy bacon... I just took down the pancetta and fried up a chunk and wow! I will never again buy pancetta!

Thanks to everyone on this thread for providing me some insight and inspiration to try something like this. Here are a few pics i snapped during the process.

gallery_13762_4379_74853.jpg

gallery_13762_4379_24302.jpg

gallery_13762_4379_13713.jpg

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Both your bacon and pancetta look just awesome.

I'll have to wait a while for my stuff to finish curing :(.

Our duck prosciutto should be ready in a few days; I'm thinking it might be a nice addition to a simple pizza.

Looks like tasso is next on the list for us.


Jon

--formerly known as 6ppc--

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Finding pink salt locally in Canada proved to be and interesting exercise, but I managed to get 2 different types. First was called "Ready cure" from Canada CompoundCanada Compound. I got the spec sheet on this product and it was about 1% Sodium Nitrite. The second product was a closer match to pink salt and I found this one at Malabar Super Spice and it's called "Sure cure" and it contained 6% sodium nitrite.

I can't speak to "locally," because I don't know where you live, but someone upthread mentioned that you can order pink salt through Stuffers Supply Company. Just do a search for Prague powder and it should come up. Of course, I haven't had any luck ordering using the form on their website, so it might be best just to call them.

Edit: That should read, "Go to their website and use the search box they provide to search for Prague powder. Just to be clear.


Edited by mkayahara (log)

Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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I made the finnochiona from the book as my first foray into dry cured sausage. It has been hanging in my refrigerator for a little less than 3 weeks. When I made it I wasn't sure whether I wanted to grind the fat or cut it into chunks so I did half and half. I would definitely use chunks next time.

I will say that the flavor is "OK". The initial aroma when you put it in your mouth is very yeasty. It takes a few seconds for that to subside and then you get to taste the fennel. I used the RM-52 called for in the book but it is my impression that this is a little too tangy, if that is what is causing this sensation.

I have had this type of sausage in Tuscany and it didn't taste like this. Not that this is bad, just that was better. I am sure the surroundings had a bit to do with that :wink:

gallery_39076_4071_179221.jpg

Has anyone experimented with different cultures and the flavor notes they impart? I ordered several when I got my initial supplies from Butcher Packer. Also, the refrigerator I used to do the curing is operating. These held at a pretty constant 45 degrees and 65% RH during that time. I know this is considerably cooler than recommended. Do you think this could have an impact?

All in all a fun project though. I may try the pepperone next.


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

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I've tried LHP from butcher packer, and i didn't care for the flavor it gave the salame. It was probably the same thing you were tasting, yeasty and sour. Last few batches i used F-RM-52 (i think, i need to check my freezer!), and it was much better,but the flavor was still sort of there.

I did find that if you let the salame sit in the fridge for another week or 2 (regular fridge), the flavor seems to subside a little bit.

Next time i'm going to order some T-SPX , as it says it is for lower acidification and less pronounced sour flavor.

My guess is that the real tuscan stuff tastes better b/c they don't use starter cultures, they rely on the natural bacteria in the air/cellar.

jason

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I've tried LHP from butcher packer, and i didn't care for the flavor it gave the salame. It was probably the same thing you were tasting, yeasty and sour. Last few batches i used F-RM-52 (i think, i need to check my freezer!), and it was much better,but the flavor was still sort of there.

I did find that if you let the salame sit in the fridge for another week or 2 (regular fridge), the flavor seems to subside a little bit.

Next time i'm going to order some T-SPX , as it says it is for lower acidification and less pronounced sour flavor.

My guess is that the real tuscan stuff tastes better b/c they don't use starter cultures, they rely on the natural bacteria in the air/cellar.

jason

Thanks for this reply Jason. I have a packet of F-LC that I ordered at the same time. I used the RM-52 in this recipe because that is what the authors recommend. I will do my next batch with the F-LC and report back.

I suppose I have wondered whether the Bactoferm cultures are the only ones on the market. Seems like that can't be so and yet I have not really found a lot of others. If there are other sources it would seem like some experimentation might turn up one that was a little more delicate for use in sausages like this.


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

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I've tried LHP from butcher packer, and i didn't care for the flavor it gave the salame. It was probably the same thing you were tasting, yeasty and sour. Last few batches i used F-RM-52 (i think, i need to check my freezer!), and it was much better,but the flavor was still sort of there.

I did find that if you let the salame sit in the fridge for another week or 2 (regular fridge), the flavor seems to subside a little bit.

Next time i'm going to order some T-SPX , as it says it is for lower acidification and less pronounced sour flavor.

My guess is that the real tuscan stuff tastes better b/c they don't use starter cultures, they rely on the natural bacteria in the air/cellar.

jason

Thanks for this reply Jason. I have a packet of F-LC that I ordered at the same time. I used the RM-52 in this recipe because that is what the authors recommend. I will do my next batch with the F-LC and report back.

I suppose I have wondered whether the Bactoferm cultures are the only ones on the market. Seems like that can't be so and yet I have not really found a lot of others. If there are other sources it would seem like some experimentation might turn up one that was a little more delicate for use in sausages like this.

I was trying to duplicate some Luganighe, that was like stuff my grandfather made 50 years ago. I used the "old fashioned" method where you mix the meat with the curing salt (#2) and let it cure for 24 hrs in the reefer. Then stuff it.I then cold smoked it for about two or three hours, and then hung it at 60º and 70% rh.

After 17 days it was really good and was just like the old time stuff...It was in hog casings. and lost 40% weight.

Several of the "thin" (hog casings) sausages in the book do not call for a lactic culture, by the way.

Bud

Edit to add; Several of the recipes in the book for thin(hog casings) do not use a lactic acid culture.


Edited by qrn (log)

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Several of the recipes in the book for thin(hog casings) do not use a lactic acid culture.

hmmmm....in chapter 5 the sausages that don't call for starter culture are the coppa (stuffed into beef middles), the saucisson sec and the landjager (calls for Fermento which is flavoring only).

Why do some call for it and some don't? The coppa I could maybe understand since it isn't ground but why not the other two? Could you safely make dry cured sausage without starter culture? i.e. cure #2 and the fresh tuscan air only (okay, okay Minneapolis air - but our air is pretty good :biggrin:)


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

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Several of the recipes in the book for thin(hog casings) do not use a lactic acid culture.

hmmmm....in chapter 5 the sausages that don't call for starter culture are the coppa (stuffed into beef middles), the saucisson sec and the landjager (calls for Fermento which is flavoring only).

Why do some call for it and some don't? The coppa I could maybe understand since it isn't ground but why not the other two? Could you safely make dry cured sausage without starter culture? i.e. cure #2 and the fresh tuscan air only (okay, okay Minneapolis air - but our air is pretty good :biggrin:)

I have done several different "old time", non LB sausages with no problems..That was the way it was done before the advent of the lacto bacillus addition..Some saved some meat from a batch to inoculate the next, like sourdough bread......Its (the LB) a sure thing so it makes a commericial operation much more efficient...I have never been accused of that!

One thing that may come into play is ,All the ones I have done were done in hog casings (smaller diameter). The larger diameters, and thus longer age time may necessitate the LB mode...The amount of dextrose also makes a difference in how sour it is..

Bud

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I may try the Saussicon sec next to get a feel for that "old fashioned" method (I like the sound of that anyway). I have no problem being limited to hog casings or smaller.

Where would I find dextrose? I know I can order it from Butcher Packer but I feel lately like I've spent enough in shippng charges through there to pay for my own UPS truck. Is there a product that one might find locally?

If I were really worried about the safety of the method (which I don't think I am) is there a way to know? :unsure:


Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

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Where would I find dextrose?  I know I can order it from Butcher Packer but I feel lately like I've spent enough in shippng charges through there to pay for my own UPS truck.  Is there a product that one might find locally?

If you have an asian market nearby check there. It is usually labelled dextrose, but sometimes glucose. As long as it's a white powder you've got the right stuff. You would also likely find it in a european market.

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As long as it's a white powder you've got the right stuff. 

Thanks! though I'm a little nervous...there are lots of white powders at the asian market.

I wonder if you could make a sausage that was made up of chunks of other types of sausages all stuffed into a casing, wow

(Cookies in your brownies...dude! that is really cool!)

Sorry, I'll stop posting while under the influence now.


Edited by BRM (log)

Anyone who says I'm hard to shop for doesn't know where to buy beer.

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As long as it's a white powder you've got the right stuff. 

Thanks! though I'm a little nervous...there are lots of white powders at the asian market.

Ok then, to qualify - if it is a white powder that says dextrose or glucose on the label, you've got the right stuff.

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