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ronnie_suburban

Curing and Cooking with Ruhlman & Polcyn's "Charcuterie" (Part 2)

594 posts in this topic

I should add that the worst part about this whole Green Bacon Affair is that I really don't feel like I can share it with anyone -- and I have a lot of the stuff.

Well, we can always give some to my ex wife....

Seriously, green stuff aside (I can't really see anything wrong in those pictures) that is some good looking jowl bacon Ron.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Mark, yes, it was at Tulio, which is a very nice place on the corner, downtown.  How did you ever guess that?  Your sausages are really looking good!

For the saucisson sec I started yesterday I hand-diced the back fat, to see if the added definition would be nice.

Welcome back, Jason.  Thanks so much for that lamb prosciutto recipe - it's a winner.

I have family in Seattle and we've been there a couple of times... it was really just a wild guess...


Edited by mdbasile (log)

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On Batali's Saulmi web site they list a cured pork loin, called Lomo.

Anyone know anything about this, or have any ideas?  It has me thinking I'd like to try to do it.

I don't have a recipe, but it seems that the basic salt-cure followed by air curing should work. Sort of like the cured lamb leg, with more spices on the outside. Not sure how long the cure would take, since the pork loin may be a bit thicker than the lamb.

I've had lomo cured by Armandino, and also house-cured lomo at Lolita in Cleveland (Michael Symon's Mediterranean place). It's always sliced paper-thin (like prosciutto), and has a peppery crust. The flavor of the meat is less intense than prosciutto, but very tasty nonetheless.

If anyone has any ideas on the cure timing, I'd like to try making some myself.

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Well someone turned Sam I am on to green eggs and ham.

Serve it with some essence and and give it a BAM!

I should add that the worst part about this whole Green Bacon Affair is that I really don't feel like I can share it with anyone -- and I have a lot of the stuff.

I mean, I've eaten it a few times, it's quite delicious and I really doubt that it's unsafe but I just couldn't give it to anyone else without knowing with absolutely certainty that it really isn't harmful.  And I just cannot find enough information to get me past that point.

=R=

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On Batali's Saulmi web site they list a cured pork loin, called Lomo.

Anyone know anything about this, or have any ideas?  It has me thinking I'd like to try to do it.

I don't have a recipe, but it seems that the basic salt-cure followed by air curing should work. Sort of like the cured lamb leg, with more spices on the outside. Not sure how long the cure would take, since the pork loin may be a bit thicker than the lamb.

I've had lomo cured by Armandino, and also house-cured lomo at Lolita in Cleveland (Michael Symon's Mediterranean place). It's always sliced paper-thin (like prosciutto), and has a peppery crust. The flavor of the meat is less intense than prosciutto, but very tasty nonetheless.

If anyone has any ideas on the cure timing, I'd like to try making some myself.

Thanks Edsel. I could only find references on line to a Spanish lomo curado, described as similiar to serrano ham. I was thinking that Salumi would be doing something a bit different. The pictures on the web site appear to maybe have some fennel in the rub also?

I also found references to pork loin AND tenderloin. The size of a tenderloin appears to be more manageable to me, so that's what I picked up this morning. I'll be curing in a zip lock like bacon and then go from there. I'll keep everyone posted on times.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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I've made a lomo or lonzino as it is called in Italy. It came out too salty for my liking. I havn't made it since. It was OK. I have details of what i did at home if you want Dave.

thanks Abra...glad the lamb turned out well!

jason

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Jason,

For my lamb -- now sitting. I read you decided to make 2 instead of 1 -- is that because of the way the piece is shape - sort of 2 halves - 1 large 1 small?

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My wife said something funny this morning....similar to Abra's complaint about $$$ and this cookbook.

She was complaining about gaining some weight in the last 2 weeks and then realized that we have basically been eating nice fatty pork products for the last 2 weeks...

She asked if we could please eat some lighter foods for a change...

Made me realize exactly how much of these wonderfull foods we have been eating.... and one can get a little carried away...

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(...)

I also found references to pork loin AND tenderloin.  The size of a tenderloin appears to be more manageable to me, so that's what I picked up this morning.  I'll be curing in a zip lock like bacon and then go from there.  I'll keep everyone posted on times.

The only downside to using tenderloin instead of loin is the relative lack of fat in tenderloin. :smile:

I found a picture on line of the "big board" at Parea, Michael Symon's Greek place in Manhattan. Link to external pic. There's an array of "lomo-like" stuff at the front. (I'm not sure what the Greek version is called). It looks similar to the lomo I've had at Lolita but I assume the spicing is different.

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I've made a lomo or lonzino as it is called in Italy. It came out too salty for my liking. I havn't made it since. It was OK. I have details of what i did at home if you want Dave.

Yes Jason, Please send it


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Mark, yes, my boneless leg, after curing in salt/spices didn't "fit" together nicely into a solid bundle. So i cut it into 2 pieces. You want to create a round piece with as few air pockets in the middle as possible.

jason

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The only downside to using tenderloin instead of loin is the relative lack of fat in tenderloin. :smile:

Agreed. However, I was thinking along the lines of bresaola, which calls for an extremely lean piece, trimmed of fat. The picture at salumi's web site is difficult to identify the cut used, as there is no reference to use for size. However, it does appear to be fairly lean.

Oh well, I don't think it's gonna be bad either way. I still like the idea of a smaller cut right now for curing faster. Perhaps I'll have the pork butchers cut me a loin that is not too large next time I'm down there. After all, I don't want this tenderloing to be lonely in the curing chamber.

Thanks for all the help


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Dave, i used a 2lb piece of loin, and salt, sugar, cure #2, pepper and garlic powder. I left it in this mixture for 10 days, and then dried it for 12 days to a 30% loss.

It was OK, simple flavor, but just way salty. Next time i'll use a thicker piece of loin, and maybe soak it after salting it, like i did for the lamb.

jason

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Dave,  i used a 2lb piece of loin, and salt, sugar, cure #2, pepper and garlic powder. I left it in this mixture for 10 days, and then dried it for 12 days to a 30% loss.

It was OK, simple flavor, but just way salty. Next time i'll use a thicker piece of loin, and maybe soak it after salting it, like i did for the lamb.

jason

Thanks Jason. I used salt, cure #2, sugar, pepper, garlic powder, and fennel seed. Remembering that the first bresaola was a bit sweet for my taste I cut the sugar amts a bit and since you said yours was a bit salty I cut the salt a bit too, and increased the pepper and fennel proportions. I'm totally winging it here, but don't figure I can go too wrong.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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I'm still stuck in regular sausage mode, so I'm feeling like something of an underachiever, but I'll get there!

Last week, I made breakfast sausage, using the recipe that Ron provided up topic.

gallery_6263_35_10091.jpg

Perfect, except I might go a little lighter on the cayenne next time; Peter is just getting his pepper feet, but everyone else pronounced them absolutely outstanding (including me). Along side buttermilk pancakes.

Today, a real treat. fifi came to town for the day. We were not interested in eating out or shopping, but cooking. Now, a year (or even a few months) ago, I've have gotten a butt or brisket and smoked it. But, I'd really been wanting to try the pork sausage with poblano peppers. So, we made sausages!

gallery_6263_35_48035.jpg

(I'm in the black t-shirt, after being up most of the night with Heidi)

For dinner, we had a mixed sausage platter -- venison, chicken and the pork sausages. I'll admit I'd eaten my venison sausage before taking the photo. The piece on the right is the chicken sausage.

gallery_6263_35_37649.jpg

Again, outstanding, and crumbly at all (despite the photo). This was a perfect sausage, and I only made a couple of changes -- I was scant on the salt and in addition to the ground cumin, I also added cumin seeds. Both fifi and I like the pop that biting into a whole seed gives. This is not a spicy sausage, but richly flavored.

I've gotten the hang of this. Cold, cold, cold (almost frozen) for the bind, and don't hesitate to add a bit more water. I continue to find the one minute suggested for the bind is not long enough.

And, for the first time, the fart factor was not a problem in stuffing these!


Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

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Arggh, eeek! Now that Jason mentions it, I forgot to SOAK the lamb! That's why mine is so much darker than the others, and dried so much quicker, I didn't soak it!

But I love it just the way it is, so maybe the soak is optional?

So nice to see Susan and Fifi and their enticing sausages.

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Nice job Susan!!

Why do you feel more liquid and a longer "mix" is in order? I am always afraid that I will create a mushy emulsification if I stir to long or with more liquid.

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Nice job Susan!!

Why do you feel more liquid and a longer "mix" is in order? I am always afraid that I will create a mushy emulsification if I stir to long or with more liquid.

I guess that my first attempt with my first batches of chicken and venison were quite crumbly. I know now that I didn't have things cold enough for the bind, and didn't bind long enough.

When I say more liquid, it's usually only about a 1/4 cup, which is not significant, and the longer bind isn't that much longer. When I do the bind, the meat is really, really cold (almost crunchy), and I find that the minute is just not long enough to achieve that fuzzy, all-together state.

All I know is what I've been doing lately is working!


Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

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Abra, i only soaked mine to try to get rid of some of the salt. Seems counter productive, but it seemed to work. Maybe it isn't entirely necessary though.

Dave, winging it with recipes is fine, as long as you maintain the correct amount of cure #2 and generally salt.

jason

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Ok all - I panicked today about mold...

After all this discussion about mold - I saw white raised chalky mold all over my salami's and FREAKED....

I rubbed them all down with 50/50 vinegar/water.... then I read the section about mold...

Sooo white mold -- the powdery stuff is ok - no?

Did I do any damage with the vinegar wipe-down? Sorry no photos, but it looked roughly like someone blew snow on parts of them...

Input is appreciated....

Thanks.

Mark


Edited by mdbasile (log)

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A good opening to update on my peperone. I did the vinegar wipe a few days ago and then was too petrified to check the basement for days. And this morning I found out that... well, how 'bout that? I've got a bunch of fine looking peperone links hanging down there! So I'd say no, don't worry a bit about it.

Speaking of which, can someone advise me about doneness? I did go to the trouble of weighing everything pre-cure, but then I lost a few links. Am I going for a feel like a standard stick of pepperoni? Or something a bit less firm?


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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A good opening to update on my peperone. I did the vinegar wipe a few days ago and then was too petrified to check the basement for days. And this morning I found out that... well, how 'bout that? I've got a bunch of fine looking peperone links hanging down there! So I'd say no, don't worry a bit about it.

Speaking of which, can someone advise me about doneness? I did go to the trouble of weighing everything pre-cure, but then I lost a few links. Am I going for a feel like a standard stick of pepperoni? Or something a bit less firm?

OK. This topic is approaching epic proportions. Chris, forgive me for asking, but please refresh my feeble memory about your curing chamber...


Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

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A good opening to update on my peperone. I did the vinegar wipe a few days ago and then was too petrified to check the basement for days. And this morning I found out that... well, how 'bout that? I've got a bunch of fine looking peperone links hanging down there! So I'd say no, don't worry a bit about it.

Speaking of which, can someone advise me about doneness? I did go to the trouble of weighing everything pre-cure, but then I lost a few links. Am I going for a feel like a standard stick of pepperoni? Or something a bit less firm?

Chris, I did the feel test on mine. When you are thinking it feels like it's getting there, just slice a bit off (I did it mid link on one to make sure I was doing good in the middle) and check it out. I did this several times until I got the texture (firmness) I was looking for. I tend to think this is a bit subjective. Of course doing it this way, plus the fact you tossed some, means the weight thing won't work anyway.

You are going to see a noticeable change in the exterior as the filling cures and shrinks too

gallery_16509_1680_284973.jpg


Edited by Bombdog (log)

Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Wow, Mark and Chris both lost their mold on the same day. Makes me feel like running down to check on my saucisson sec, to be sure their mold hasn't migrated to my house.

Today I finally ground and tubed the fresh pork sausage I diced and seasoned...three days ago. I swear, it smelled fine. So now, because I don't have sausaging down yet, I've got to do some more tech support show and tell. But first, a neat little trick I invented just for Susan.

gallery_16307_2661_15400.jpg

A shallow bowl of ice slides right in under the KA bowl as it paddles. You can see the frosty condensation on the KA bowl.

Now, to the help section. Last time I think I didn't get the bind right. All of your pictures helped me enormously - does this look right?

gallery_16307_2661_38980.jpg

And several of you commented that my last batch looked overstuffed. Do these look better? They didn't burst this time, but then, I cooked them on ultra-low heat.

gallery_16307_2661_57578.jpg

And last, to the cooked sausage. This time I cooked them very slowly to 150. If anything, they still seem too finely ground, although I did them on the coarse die. Are they over-emulsified? Or is this on target?

gallery_16307_2661_50991.jpg

They weren't at all crumbly, but I wouldn't describe them as exactly juicy. I didn't add backfat this time, because I was using a store-bought butt and it had a lot of fat. I also did lose some juices by temping them obsessively, thereby pricking a number of small holes in them as they cooked. What say you Sultans of Sausage?

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