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ronnie_suburban

Curing and Cooking with Ruhlman & Polcyn's "Charcuterie" (Part 2)

594 posts in this topic

Way to go, mdbasile!!  That picture is simply glorious.  About how long did that take you?  I'd love to run that many batches back to back but I don't know if I have the capacity to do so.  Can you describe the process a bit?  I'm in awe!

=R=

I meant to add that the process was fairly simple - though took a long time.

I pre-ordered all my meat ahead of time, and then picked it up Sat mid day. I was able to get my butcher to bone the duck, which saved me a ton of time. BTW- nice thing about using the duck - is that you have bones and fat you can use to make stock and render the duck fat.

I prep'd all the meat first so I could keep it cold -- cutting them all up while my wife (THANK YOU!!) put all the seasonings together. Then I seasoned and then ground each sausage and then paddled them.

I put each mix in a zip-loc bag and refrigerated for Sunday. This was the more time - consuming - the prep work.

We stuffed each sausage on Sunday - The Marguze was the easiest and the brats the hardest - it is soo gluey with all that soy-protien, egg and cheese. I will be using very little of that soy protein in the future... anyway... I stuffed each one right after the other - starting with the duck, then Italian - the Marguze - right in a row -- creating a couple of what my 14 yr calls "hybrids." The Brats I did separate because I wanted to chill everything before stuffing.

That was pretty much it. I am a little "sausaged out," primarily do to alot of cooking and tasting while making...

Mark

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That's a lovely sausage array, mdbasile!

Me, I'm still having problems with my Italian sausage.  Today I tried roasting some, to see whether even heat all around would keep them from bursting out of the casings.  Yes, it did.  They remained whole, but got very, very small.  Why?  Because an incredible big-ass lake of fat melted out of them, right through the casings.  And then they were dry.

So, did the fat need a coarser grind?  Was it not bound properly?  I'm at a loss, since no one else has reported on any problems.  Can it be that I have bad sausage ju-ju?

Abra -

I'd guess that they were overcooked - the fat renders at about 160+ deg. Next time try for internal finished temp of 150 deg.

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That's a lovely sausage array, mdbasile!

Me, I'm still having problems with my Italian sausage.  Today I tried roasting some, to see whether even heat all around would keep them from bursting out of the casings.  Yes, it did.  They remained whole, but got very, very small.  Why?  Because an incredible big-ass lake of fat melted out of them, right through the casings.  And then they were dry.

So, did the fat need a coarser grind?  Was it not bound properly?  I'm at a loss, since no one else has reported on any problems.  Can it be that I have bad sausage ju-ju?

Abra -

I'd guess that they were overcooked - the fat renders at about 160+ deg. Next time try for internal finished temp of 150 deg.

Abra, I was going to suggest the same thing but knowing that you're a very experienced cook, I figured that you'd already thought about this aspect.

=R=


"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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I'd also check the temp of the meat before and during your paddling for the primary bind. It sounds to me like the emulsion broke....


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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Abra -

I'd guess that they were overcooked - the fat renders at about 160+ deg. Next time try for internal finished temp of 150 deg.

bingo. i cannot emphasize enough: as with any special cut of meat and there's nothing more special than a well made sausage, cook it carefully and to a precise internal temperature.

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I think you all are right, as I didn't watch the temp. Store-bought Italian sausage can seemingly be roasted with impunity, but the fat chunks are a lot larger. I'll be more careful next time. And whereas I am a very experienced cook, (dare I say this?) my sausage experience is rather limited, so my sausage skills are not yet highly developed.

I'm not too sure about the bind, still. Does anyone have a good photo of how the bind on a non-emulsified sausage shold optimally look? I think it's one of those things I need to see,

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I Does anyone have a good photo of how the bind on a non-emulsified sausage shold optimally look?  I think it's one of those things I need to see,

Abra, I'm not sure if this will help. I looked through my pictures and only have one after paddling. This is my lamb sausage.

gallery_16509_1680_917993.jpg

Still not sure it will help you.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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I Does anyone have a good photo of how the bind on a non-emulsified sausage shold optimally look?  I think it's one of those things I need to see,

Abra, I'm not sure if this will help. I looked through my pictures and only have one after paddling. This is my lamb sausage.

gallery_16509_1680_917993.jpg

Still not sure it will help you.

That looks pretty much like what mine did. Actually I'd like to see one that had "broken."

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You'd think, with all my mistakes, I'd have a picture of one. I just looked though and can't find one. I think Susan posted one up thread of some chicken that crumbled on her.

I did take this one yesterday of the charcuterie plate I put out before dinner.

gallery_16509_1680_136313.jpg

There is bresaola in the middle with some lemon, olive oil, ground pepper and shaved parmesan, and duck proscuito, tuscan salame, venison salame, and peperone around the outside.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Abra, I don't have a photo, but my bind looks more sticky than Dave's. Speaking of whom: that platter looks amazing, man!

The peperone are doing fine, apparently: no fuzz, 60F/90%+ for several days. There's a-floodin' all up and down the east coast, but my links are happy!


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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Abra, don't quote me on this, but I just make chicken sausages (again). Although I haven't cooked any of the stuffed sausages, one did burst during the twisting, so I had to suffer and cook it up for breakfast. It does not seem crumbly, but just as sausage should be.

This is what it looked like just after I paddled it.

gallery_6263_35_27885.jpg

The verdict will be in tomorrow night when I grill some of them.

But, although I was not careful at all to keep things frigid while I cut up the meat, the meat was very cold when I ground and bound it (like just about freezing).

And, it needed just over a minute to get to the point at which I photoed it. I also ended up adding a bit of water, even after the rest of the liquids.

Llike I said, the verdict will be in tomorrow night. I will, as I've been wont to do, keep a close eye on the internal temp of the sausages. It just makes a big difference.


Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

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Abra, here's a pic of mine from way back upthread. The sausages from this batch had a very tight definition, although I didn't tube them off, just cooked them bulk. I hope it helps you get to the bottom of it . . .

gallery_3085_2455_316322.jpg

=R=


"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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You'd think, with all my mistakes, I'd have a picture of one.  I just looked though and can't find one.  I think Susan posted one up thread of some chicken that crumbled on her.

I did take this one yesterday of the charcuterie plate I put out before dinner.

gallery_16509_1680_136313.jpg

There is bresaola in the middle with some lemon, olive oil, ground pepper and shaved parmesan, and duck proscuito, tuscan salame, venison salame, and peperone around the outside.

Absolutely stunning. I think I need to crank things up a notch so I can serve platters like this at the cabin and don't have to cook up there. Just call me a lightweight.


Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

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Thanks for the props folks...

I think Ron and Susan's pictures probably most acurately depict what we are striving for. Just my .02$ worth.

Chris, glad to hear the peperone are doing good...I'm keeping my fingers crossed still.

If it works you WON'T be disappointed.

md...that plate of sausages you served yesterday looked awesome!


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Dave, what a beautiful plate! Those are gorgeous. I really love the color of the peperone and the venison. And with any luck, Chris will soon be joining you on the peperone success front.

I think Ron's extreme close-up really shows what I was looking for - it's almost like, in the bread analogy, you can see the gluten strands beginning to form. So that's a more developed bind than I had, although I paddled for a minute and 15 seconds. I think the liquids didn't get completely bound, because there was drippiness in the bag where I stored the tubed sausages. And Susan, you've reminded me that I had the seasoned meat at cold fridge, rather than freezer, temp when we ground it.

So next time: colder, larger grind, better bind, and more gentle cooking with thermometer in hand. Whew, that's a lot of mistakes for one batch! I sure hope I've got that out of my system now.

Thanks, you guys. You're the best. I honestly think this thread has one of the most helpful bunch of devotees of any thread on eG.

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Abra, one of the reasons I like my big old ugly yellow/gold Tupperware bowls is that I can use plastic wrap and press the diced meat mixture (as well as the mixture once it's been ground) around the sides of the bowl, stick it in the freezer, so that the meat is uniformly cold without some of it being frozen and some of it being just a bit cold. My instant read indicated I was at about 32 when I bound the stuff, but it wasn't frozen. Just hand-numbingly cold.

And, as I've saud somewhere uptopic, the advice about 150 (for red meat) or 160 (for poultry) sausage temp when cooked is worth the price of the book alone.


Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

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You'd think, with all my mistakes, I'd have a picture of one.  I just looked though and can't find one.  I think Susan posted one up thread of some chicken that crumbled on her.

I did take this one yesterday of the charcuterie plate I put out before dinner.

gallery_16509_1680_136313.jpg

There is bresaola in the middle with some lemon, olive oil, ground pepper and shaved parmesan, and duck proscuito, tuscan salame, venison salame, and peperone around the outside.

Very nice Dave - that is mighty tasty looking...

...and thanks


Edited by mdbasile (log)

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Hey Dave -- I made the Tuscan a few weeks ago (sorry no photos) and they looked preety much like yours. They had a slightly sweet taste -- do yours? I ask because I couldn't find dextrose and used fructose instead - (1/2 the amount as instructed).....


Edited by mdbasile (log)

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Hey Dave -- I made the Tuscan a few weeks ago (sorry no photos) and they looked preety much like yours. They had a slightly sweet taste -- do yours? I ask because I couldn't find dextrose and used fructose instead - (1/2 the amount as instructed)...

Since you asked, I had to go cut off a piece and really examine the flavor components.

Tough job, I know. Anyone have any questions that would cause me to taste the peperone too?

The answer is no sweetness that I can detect. I might be wrong here, but I think the main use of the sugar is for the fermentation process and there shouldn't be much in the way of residual sweetness if it is consumed.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Hey Dave -- I made the Tuscan a few weeks ago (sorry no photos) and they looked preety much like yours. They had a slightly sweet taste -- do yours? I ask because I couldn't find dextrose and used fructose instead - (1/2 the amount as instructed)...

Since you asked, I had to go cut off a piece and really examine the flavor components.

Tough job, I know. Anyone have any questions that would cause me to taste the peperone too?

The answer is no sweetness that I can detect. I might be wrong here, but I think the main use of the sugar is for the fermentation process and there shouldn't be much in the way of residual sweetness if it is consumed.

Hmm soo how spicey are those peperone?

I am planning to make Tuscan and Chirizo this weekend - and I am ordering some dextrose - I think this other stuff actually added a slight sweetness to them.

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While am here....

I have storage question. What is the best way to store the sausages? How long before I should freeze them.... and what will that do to the texture?

... not like I am going to be able eat all of those puppies in a week, a it would be nice to have them around when I need 'em.

Thanks all!!

Mark

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I have storage question. What is the best way to store the sausages? How long before I should freeze them.... and what will that do to the texture?

... not like I am going to be able eat all of those puppies in a week, a it would be nice to have them around when I need 'em.

I've kept some pork sausages in the refrigerator about a week before grilling. I have a bunch in the freezer as we speak.

I don't seem to have much of a problem figuring out storage, as everything seems to go pretty fast. That said, it's extremely gratifying to put a plate, like I posted earlier, in front of your guests and listen to them moan.

Oh yeah...the peperone...I don't think it's too spicy at all...just perfect. Of all the dry cured products I've made, it seems to get the most compliments.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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I've been freezing most of each batch of sausages using my Kenmore vacuum-sealer, and they have been perfect after thawing (which happens quickly in a bowl of ice water, btw).


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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I too have a vacuum sealer and using it most of the stuff I've turned out has lasted at least a month under refrigeration. It probably would keep even longer but that's as long as any of it has lasted.

I'll bet that with vacuum sealing and frozen storage, you could probably go up to at least 2 months without too much deterioration.

=R=


"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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