West Coast vs. East Coast Burgers

[weinoo]

Growing up in NY a burger (and I'm taxing my memory here, since when I come to NY a burger isn't on my to-do list) was composed of nothing more than a bun, lightly toasted if you were lucky, ketchup, the meat patty and some pickle chips. Or you could add cheese--yellow in those days. How do you put Irish on it?

So what exactly is a west coast burger, at least from an east coast perspective? When we make burgers at home here we use mustard, mayo, ketchup and have a plate with sliced red onion, tomatoes and lettuce, and either pickles or roasted green chillies. I've abandoned the traditional bun for toasted slices of good quality batarde or rustic french style white bread.

Is a west-coast burger the in 'n out style?

[Keith Orr]

That's pretty much a description of what I would consider a Basic West Coast Burger here in Portland OR, minus the green chiles, which are arguably a New Mexico tradition.

Most of the places here that do a better burger, use a better bun, and grind & form their own beef patties. Many of the local bakeries turn out good buns as well.

High end burgers include options like caramelized onions, better cheeses (cheddar, blue, etc.) grass fed beef or occasionally buffalo, bacon, ham, fried egg. Burgers are a popular happy hour menu item at many of the higher end (for Portland) restaurant bars.

We've also got a few local burger chains and single location burger places that do pretty a pretty good job. Burgerville is more of a fast food place that locals will often compare favorably or not to In N Out. They use lots of local products and higher end local beef.

Additionally more places are making their own french fries and housemade catsup.

I was in Kansas recently and there is a local mid-west chain called Freddies that is pretty good. Their burgers were pretty much what I expect around here, but one option they had that I like is a Patty Melt. A burger with swiss cheese and grilled onions on rye.

Links to some reviews of local burgers here & here - The first is higher end, the second is more old school.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Keith Orr (log)

[patrickamory]

Growing up in NY a burger (and I'm taxing my memory here, since when I come to NY a burger isn't on my to-do list) was composed of nothing more than a bun, lightly toasted if you were lucky, ketchup, the meat patty and some pickle chips. Or you could add cheese--yellow in those days. How do you put Irish on it?

So what exactly is a west coast burger, at least from an east coast perspective? When we make burgers at home here we use mustard, mayo, ketchup and have a plate with sliced red onion, tomatoes and lettuce, and either pickles or roasted green chillies. I've abandoned the traditional bun for toasted slices of good quality batarde or rustic french style white bread.

Is a west-coast burger the in 'n out style?

I think yes - the West Coast burger in my mind is what has (d)evolved into the nationwide fast food burger - quite thin chargrilled patties, and a lot of toppings including yellow mustard. But it has a distinguished heritage - Pie N Burger in Pasadena, Tommy Burger on Beverly in Los Angeles, Tail O' The Pup when they still existed, and yes, In N Out Burger as well. The only place you could get a burger like this growing up here was at McDonald's.

On the East Coast - and maybe I should specify the Northeast - a burger for me growing up was a thick puck or baseball-sized patty, often quite rare (even bloody rare) in the middle, with ketchup, sometimes lettuce and tomato, and very rarely mustard (in NYC you're lucky to be served yellow mustard anyway - it's almost always brown). The focus was on the quality and especially the rareness of the meat rather than the sandwichness of it, the proportions, or the toppings. This is what my dad and his friends would have grilled in their backyards when I was growing up in Boston, and it's also what I ended up encountering in Irish bar & grills in both Boston and NYC... think Doyle's in Boston, or the now-vanished McBell's on Sixth Avenue, Molly's on Third Avenue, Donovan's in Woodside, the Corner Bistro in the West Village and countless other Irish places...

The NJ slider tradition would seem to give the lie to this since it's closer to what I think of as West Coast / In N Out in some ways. It may be the Northeast or New England versus the rest of the country.

[heidih]

I think there is a distinction between at home and from a fast food joint. At home and in most mom and pop diners the basic burger that I have experienced is a pretty thick round patty on a toasted bun, sliced onion and the outer leaves of iceberg and possibly a firm tomato slice. Condiments like ketchup would be optional. Generally do not see ballpark mustard - I think that is a hot dog thing. I think the mayo dressing is an extension of the McD type "secret sauce" - so really much more naked traditionally . The fast food chains do the thin patty with the sauce, sliver of lettuce, maybe onion, flavorless tomato slice. Not a consumer or fan or those. Of course there are the enhanced burgers that are popular in restaurants and diners. The fancier cheeses, the grilled or caramelized onion, thebacon , mushrooms and foie gras! But my observation it that when a native at least Angeleno thinks burger it is that more basic one .

[mgaretz]

The mayo-type dressing, aka thousand island, on burgers predates McD. It was always what we had with burgers growing up in anaheim and a lot of the local, non-chain restaurants served their burgers this way. Special sauce was used by jack in the box well before McDonald's started using it on the big Mac. We had a fast burger place called Burger Chef that sold their burgers for 12 cents or 10 for a dollar. They had ketchup and mustard and a pickle chip. The burgers were made on a dual sided chain broiler like Burger King, but they came way before Burger King and beat McDonald's to town by several years but I'm not sure if McDonald's came first in other locations. But the basic McDonald's burger (which was all they had back then) was essentially the same as the Burger Chef one. Carl's jr and its "competitor" Heinz (some sources say it later acquired by Carl's and others that it was secretly owned by them all along which wouldnt surprise me as the menu was identical) used a combination of ketchup and sweet pickle relish, which Carl's still uses as far as I know but it's been years since I was in one. I remember eating at the original Carl's restaurant but don't recall what was on the burgers. But local diner Armstrongs used thousand island and shredded lettuce and had great shoestring fries before any of the fast food joints existed.

[Kerry Beal]

The mayo-type dressing, aka thousand island, on burgers predates McD. It was always what we had with burgers growing up in anaheim and a lot of the local, non-chain restaurants served their burgers this way. Special sauce was used by jack in the box well before McDonald's started using it on the big Mac. We had a fast burger place called Burger Chef that sold their burgers for 12 cents or 10 for a dollar. They had ketchup and mustard and a pickle chip. The burgers were made on a dual sided chain broiler like Burger King, but they came way before Burger King and beat McDonald's to town by several years but I'm not sure if McDonald's came first in other locations. But the basic McDonald's burger (which was all they had back then) was essentially the same as the Burger Chef one. Carl's jr and its "competitor" Heinz (some sources say it later acquired by Carl's and others that it was secretly owned by them all along which wouldnt surprise me as the menu was identical) used a combination of ketchup and sweet pickle relish, which Carl's still uses as far as I know but it's been years since I was in one. I remember eating at the original Carl's restaurant but don't recall what was on the burgers. But local diner Armstrongs used thousand island and shredded lettuce and had great shoestring fries before any of the fast food joints existed.

Ah, Burger Chef - there was one right next to my grade 7 and 8 school. Don't have any memory of their burger, but here in Canada they had the best milkshakes - really a malted I'd say. I'd imitate them at home with vanilla ice cream and ovaltine. Strange thing though - mine melted when they warmed!

[SylviaLovegren]

I think of the West Coast burger as what was served at the original Red Robin in Seattle, decades before they became a chain. A big thick hand-formed burger, a good solid bun (not French bread, not styrofoam, but an honest soft but substantial bun), ketchup, mustard, frilly green leaf lettuce, tomato and then with options for avocado, onion, pickle, bacon, cheddar cheese, blue cheese, etc. Hand cut thick fries.

That's what I found when I moved to Los Angeles, too -- that was kind of the standard non-fast food burger. A journalist from Holland came to stay with me in L.A. in the early 80s and she was stunned by the burgers, having only been exposed to McD's. She couldn't get over how delicious they were and said she now understood the American fascination with burgers.

There were local fast food burgers in Seattle before McDs. The farthest from my high school (can't remember the name) charged 18 cents for a skinny pat of meat on thin bun, ketchup, mustard and an anemic pickle slice. The closer place charged 19 cents for pretty much the same thing, so we'd walk the extra few blocks to save that penny.

[Pierogi]

The mayo-type dressing, aka thousand island, on burgers predates McD. It was always what we had with burgers growing up in anaheim and a lot of the local, non-chain restaurants served their burgers this way. Special sauce was used by jack in the box well before McDonald's started using it on the big Mac. We had a fast burger place called Burger Chef that sold their burgers for 12 cents or 10 for a dollar. They had ketchup and mustard and a pickle chip. The burgers were made on a dual sided chain broiler like Burger King, but they came way before Burger King and beat McDonald's to town by several years but I'm not sure if McDonald's came first in other locations. But the basic McDonald's burger (which was all they had back then) was essentially the same as the Burger Chef one. Carl's jr and its "competitor" Heinz (some sources say it later acquired by Carl's and others that it was secretly owned by them all along which wouldnt surprise me as the menu was identical) used a combination of ketchup and sweet pickle relish, which Carl's still uses as far as I know but it's been years since I was in one. I remember eating at the original Carl's restaurant but don't recall what was on the burgers. But local diner Armstrongs used thousand island and shredded lettuce and had great shoestring fries before any of the fast food joints existed.

Bob's Big Boy used the "special/secret" sauce too, and if I remember correctly they started in the late 40's/early 50's, so they also pre-date Mickey D's. They also did the lettuce/tomato/onion/pickle thing, and the double patties. Sesame seed buns.

Sure miss them. They had GREAT burgers, and those shakes were to die for.

[Keith Orr]

All the other replies remind me of the burgers that proceeded moving to Portland in 69. I lived in La Grande Oregon and the choices we had there were Arctic Circle, Dairy Queen and A & W. Arctic Circle was the most basic burger - shredded lettuce, pickles and special sauce (mayo and catsup) for 19 cents - the others were bigger and a bit fancier with options beyond cheese.

[SylviaLovegren]

The mayo-type dressing, aka thousand island, on burgers predates McD. It was always what we had with burgers growing up in anaheim and a lot of the local, non-chain restaurants served their burgers this way. Special sauce was used by jack in the box well before McDonald's started using it on the big Mac. We had a fast burger place called Burger Chef that sold their burgers for 12 cents or 10 for a dollar. They had ketchup and mustard and a pickle chip. The burgers were made on a dual sided chain broiler like Burger King, but they came way before Burger King and beat McDonald's to town by several years but I'm not sure if McDonald's came first in other locations. But the basic McDonald's burger (which was all they had back then) was essentially the same as the Burger Chef one. Carl's jr and its "competitor" Heinz (some sources say it later acquired by Carl's and others that it was secretly owned by them all along which wouldnt surprise me as the menu was identical) used a combination of ketchup and sweet pickle relish, which Carl's still uses as far as I know but it's been years since I was in one. I remember eating at the original Carl's restaurant but don't recall what was on the burgers. But local diner Armstrongs used thousand island and shredded lettuce and had great shoestring fries before any of the fast food joints existed.

Bob's Big Boy used the "special/secret" sauce too, and if I remember correctly they started in the late 40's/early 50's, so they also pre-date Mickey D's. They also did the lettuce/tomato/onion/pickle thing, and the double patties. Sesame seed buns.

Sure miss them. They had GREAT burgers, and those shakes were to die for.

Bob's Big Boy is gone?!!? That's terrible news. I loved their burgers and shakes, too. Not to mention the statues of Bob. Sigh. Sic transit...

[Holly Moore]

There was a time when California style meant a burger topped with lettuce, tomato and mayo. Closest thing to east coast style would have been a mustard cheeseburger.

Nowadays, the distinction is between the purist/minimalist and the despoiler/camouflager who hides the burger with whatever ingredients are lying about the walk-in.

[Toliver]

Bob's Big Boy is gone?!!? That's terrible news. I loved their burgers and shakes, too. Not to mention the statues of Bob. Sigh. Sic transit...

We have a relatively new Bob's Big Boy here in central California. The building they're in used to be a Baker's Square until that chain fizzled out. When they first opened, the Bob's had a small statue of Bob out front which promptly got stolen. There was some local angst & drama until the teen who took it was finally caught. I believe the statue was moved into the lobby.

There was a time when California style meant a burger topped with lettuce, tomato and mayo. Closest thing to east coast style would have been a mustard cheeseburger.

Mustard cheeseburger? That sounds painfully dull.

Having grown up on the left coast, lettuce, tomato, pickles and mayo (sometimes onion) were always the norm on the more elaborate burgers (Jumbo Jacks, Big Macs, et al) but the basic (cheap) burgers seemed to have only mustard and ketchuo plus some pickle chips.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Toliver (log)

[Smithy]

Bob's Big Boy is gone?!!? That's terrible news. I loved their burgers and shakes, too. Not to mention the statues of Bob. Sigh. Sic transit...

We have a relatively new Bob's Big Boy here in central California. The building they're in used to be a Baker's Square until that chain fizzled out. When they first opened, the Bob's had a small statue of Bob out front which promptly got stolen. There was some local angst & drama until the teen who took it was finally caught. I believe the statue was moved into the lobby.

There was a time when California style meant a burger topped with lettuce, tomato and mayo. Closest thing to east coast style would have been a mustard cheeseburger.

Mustard cheeseburger? That sounds painfully dull.

Having grown up on the left coast, lettuce, tomato, pickles and mayo (sometimes onion) were always the norm on the more elaborate burgers (Jumbo Jacks, Big Macs, et al) but the basic (cheap) burgers seemed to have only mustard and ketchuo plus some pickle chips.

I grew up in California and always assumed that a burger came with lettuce, tomato, mayo and usually pickles. (I always specified "extra pickles" and "no onion" to be sure, although the onion wasn't a given.) Imagine my surprise when I moved to Minnesota and found that the default burger only came with mayo and mustard. Whenever I ordered a burger and asked for mayo, lettuce, tomato and pickles the waitperson would say, "Oh, you want a California burger with pickles." Sure enough, there it was on the menu, for anyone to see: California burger. To this day, my Minnesotan husband wants mustard and onion and none of that other frippery with his all-beef patty on a bun.

[Pierogi]

....Snippity....

Bob's Big Boy is gone?!!? That's terrible news. I loved their burgers and shakes, too. Not to mention the statues of Bob. Sigh. Sic transit...

The chain is essentially defunct. There are a couple of scattered outposts, I know the original (?) one in Glendale still exists, and as Toliver just posted that there's one in Central CA. There *was* one in the Long Beach area (Signal Hill), but that closed about a year ago. I was very sad.

They certainly aren't the presence they were back in the day.

[patrickamory]

Mustard on a burger is pretty rare on the East Coast - or at least Northeast - I think... the default is definitely ketchup.

And as I wrote, yellow mustard is extremely hard to find in New York City (Five Guys is one of the few places to serve it).

(Even McDonald's doesn't serve mustard as a default on their burgers in NYC as they do in the rest of the country, and they are frequently out of the packets as well. Not that McDonald's should be a benchmark - I think in this case they are following not leading.)

[Keith Orr]

No mustard on the basic McDonald cheeseburger in Portland, just catsup, onion and pickle.

BTW - here's an article and video by McDonald's Executive Chef showing how to make a Big Mac at home including how to make the secret sauce

[heidih]

Bob's Big Boy is gone?!!? That's terrible news. I loved their burgers and shakes, too. Not to mention the statues of Bob. Sigh. Sic transit...

There is one down the street from me complete with the historically often stolen statue. Have not been though so not sure if it is revamped or original in burger style.

[Pierogi]

Bob's Big Boy is gone?!!? That's terrible news. I loved their burgers and shakes, too. Not to mention the statues of Bob. Sigh. Sic transit...

There is one down the street from me complete with the historically often stolen statue. Have not been though so not sure if it is revamped or original in burger style.

REALLY?!???!!!!!!!!! Cool. Lomita/Torrance is a whole heck of a lot closer to me than Glendale or Central CA. Maybe time for a field trip....

[patrickamory]

Interesting, here's an article with many comments about where McDonalds hamburgers come with mustard and where not:

http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/03/dear-aht-differences-in-regional-mustard-use-on-mcdonalds-hamburgers.html

Long Island - no

New Jersey - yes

Boston - yes

Texas - yes

Wisconsin - yes

Bay Area - yes

SoCal - yes

Northwest - yes (though see the Portland comment above)

This struck me as revealing: "I grew up in New York but we would frequently drive to visit relatives in Pittsburgh, and we were forever trying to pinpoint the exact line on I-76 when mustard started appearing on the burgers."

and

"I can definitely confirm mustard on every McDonalds burger I've ever had outside of NYC and my native Long Island, including NJ, CT and Upstate NY. States in which I've eaten McDonalds include: NJ, CT, RI, MA, ME, PA, DE, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MT, WY, CA and SD. Every last one of them had mustard. I concur with my fellow Islanders: mustard is in every way anathema to a NYer on a burger."

Obivously I cannot hang with that last statement, but then I grew up in Massachusetts so what do I know!

[weinoo]

I worked in a long-defunct fast-food burger joint (Carrol's, iirc)on Long Island when I was in high school. No mustard.

[patrickamory]

It's fascinating. How do these regional traditions come to pass, and how do they still survive in the 21st century?

To the extent that fast food chains put out press releases stating, "New Yorkers do not like mustard on their hamburgers." In an age when everyone is more mobile, more well-travelled, and a huge percentage of New Yorkers did not even grow up here?

[Holly Moore]

Wetson's, circa 1961, north Jersey. I think just ketchup, but not sure. I mostly remember their orange drink and a guy from Boonton who tried to pick a fight with me cause I was from Mountain Lakes. I remember mustard from diner cheeseburger. Never on a hamburger. Just a cheeseburger.

[patrickamory]

I remember mustard from diner cheeseburger. Never on a hamburger. Just a cheeseburger.

An extra twist I had not considered...