Pink Slime

[tikidoc]

Again, outside of the ammonia (and I don't know the health implications of that), feeding this to your children may be giving them poor quality beef, but I can't see how it could be construed as dangerous assuming the beef has the same bacteria counts, etc. that slime-less beef has, and I've yet to see facts presented that say it is systemically bad (naturally there will be cases where it is bad, just like there are cases where spinach is bad, due to poor handling and inspection).

The problem is that this stuff has been exempted out of the bacterial testing required for ground beef. And spot and voluntary testing HAS identified contaminated batches. See http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

So you CANNOT assume the bacterial counts are acceptable, and unless someone gets sick, we are unlikely to know because testing is not required.

[Paul Kierstead]

But testing has revealed contaminated batches of regular beef as well, I am sure. It would need to be shown that pink slime is consistently higher, and that it is because of the process and could not be reasonably corrected. In either case, the problem would appear to be the exemption from testing, the the existence of the product.

[dcarch]

So, the fact they eat a great deal of sea food (not beef) and maintain much lower levels of obesity is not a leading factor? What is your point? They are shorter too. Does that mean shorter people live longer?

It is possible that shorter people live longer, but of course I was only pointing out that there are places where non-organic food culture does not prevent long life expectance.

dcarch

[tikidoc]

But testing has revealed contaminated batches of regular beef as well, I am sure. It would need to be shown that pink slime is consistently higher, and that it is because of the process and could not be reasonably corrected. In either case, the problem would appear to be the exemption from testing, the the existence of the product.

I don't think it needs to be shown that the risk is higher, it needs to be shown that there is a high enough risk to justify the testing. The regular beef is tested, the "pink slime" is not. BOTH should be.

[Paul Kierstead]

It is possible that shorter people live longer, but of course I was only pointing out that there are places where non-organic food culture does not prevent long life expectance.

Ah, well, then we can all join in. For example, Japan has much higher smoking rates than the US. Japan has much longer life expectancy than the US. Mozambique has very low life expectancy. Mozambique people very likely don't care about organic food. I'm sure we can all add in random facts about life expectancy.

[Alcuin]

I am disgusted with the reactions of theoretically sophisticated forum members to the term "pink slime". If you have been consuming ground beef from a source and found it acceptable or even tasty and have now found out it contains "pink slime" and changed your mind you remind me of someone who eats a dish and likes it until they are informed it contains anchovies or liver.

If the "pink slime" additive is healthy for you what difference should it make? Would this subject be hot topic if some PR activist had not thought up the term "pink slime". I am reminded of the campaign against farmed Atlantic salmon hybrids using the name "Frankenfish". Instead of an intelligent discussion of the pros and cons, we have a visceral reaction stirred up deliberately by negative marketing term. Those who accept the concept of eating the cow from nose to tail(now trendy) should welcome the conaervation of beef parts which would otherwise have gone to waste.

Talk about theoretically sophisticated! You're making a whole lot of assumptions. People don't typically appreciate being talked down to as if they are faux-sophisticates or children grossed out upon finding that they've eaten food they think they don't like. So, let me tell you my reasons for being against this stuff. I won't speak for others in these forums, but for me it has nothing to do with the term "pink slime." Would you prefer to call it "boneless lean beef trimmings"? That's a pretty outrageously misleading term. I'll just call it "stuff" from here on out.

What I react against is this: due to a profit motive that seeks to wring ever more out of the raw product, beef distributors began selling this stuff for human consumption whereas before it was deemed fit only for pet food. Does this seem like progress to you?

Also, what do you mean by "healthy"? You seem to suggest that healthy means "it won't cause you immediate or visible harm." Otherwise, I can't see how this stuff is healthy in the sense that it is good for your health, the commonly accepted defining of "healthy." Why is this stuff sprayed with ammonia? Because it is heated to 100F to loosen the "meat" so it can be centrifuged off. As I'm sure you're aware, 100F is prime growing conditions for bacteria. The ammonia is there because the meat is put well within the danger zone according to USDA recommended guidelines. But it's ok if its hidden in what is marketed as ground chuck or ground sirloin? Give me a break.

If this were done in a restaurant don't you think inspectors would be all over it? That's why the idea that this is anything like nose to tail eating is the most ridiculous red herring. This is not about taking some nice sweatbreads and lovingly preparing them. Do you really think nose to tail eating is anything like heating beef bones to 100F and centrifuging every last particle off of them, treating it with ammonia to kill the bacteria you just created, and then putting it into ground beef that is labelled as ground chuck or ground sirloin, or at the very least rests on the assumption that the only thing in the package is ground meat and not centrifuged ammonia treated meat paste? Searing some liver and serving it with onions is a far cry from this.

But how about this, let's just properly label the stuff as an additive, using a neutral term that doesn't conceal what the substance is but that represents it for what it is as objectively as possible (sorry, but this is not likely to be a positive term in that case). Then you can eat it all you want, and everyone who wants to can avoid it. Problem solved.

Also, as a sidenote, I haven't been eating this stuff for years. I've been grinding my own beef since I got my kitchenaid and when I do go to restaurants for a burger, the meat doesn't have an additives. But that's just me, and I'm lucky to live in a place where that's possible.

[tikidoc]

Dear Alcuin,

Clap, clap, clap.

You said much more eloquently what I have been trying to say.

Thank you.

Jess

[SJMitch]

Of course they're blaming the negative publicity. Nothing like being hounded out of business to make one a tad bitter.

My understanding is that AFA was a highly leveraged company and therefore overly sensitive to demand fluctuations. I.e. poor managment is the cause. Also, it's chapter 11 bankruptcy, so they aren't being 'hounded out of business' yet (and maybe never).

They claim they only use the ammoniated beef at the request of their customers. That leads me to believe that it is the temporary drop off in ground beef demand that is the cause. If it was simply consumers moving from ground beef with ammoniated trimmings to untreated ground beef, there wouldn't be a drop off, their food service clients would just order it without the ammoniated parts.

Why would consumers back away from ground beef in total instead of just ground beef with the ammoniated trimmings? I suspect lack of labelling is the cause: if the consumer doesn't have confidence in the product, they won't buy it at all. Accurate labels would help restore that confidence. It would also allow the cheaper ground beef to remain in the food supply for those who are happy to have cheaper product and agree the ammoniated trimmings are safe.

Heck, this labeling works for somewhat similar (but different) meat product that got bad press as well: Mechanically separated meat. Chicken processd this way is required to be labelled 'mechanically separated chicken'. Some suppliers have moved away from it (e.g. McDonalds), while others continue to use it and consumers continue to buy it happily (e.g. Slim Jims).

So besides bad management, lack of accurate labeling is likely also a major cause of beef processors' woes.

[IndyRob]

Uh oh, time to check our shopping lists...

Q: In what foods is ammonium hydroxide used in processing?

A: The list of foods in which ammonium hydroxide is used as a direct food additive is extensive and includes baked goods, cheeses, chocolates, other confectionery (e.g., caramel), and puddings. Ammonium hydroxide is also used as an antimicrobial agent in meat products.

Ammonia in other forms (e.g., ammonium sulfate, ammonium alginate) is used in condiments, relishes, soy protein concentrates/isolates, snack foods, jams and jellies, and non-alcoholic beverages.

The World Health Organization has listed hundreds of food types that may be processed using ammonium hydroxide when used in accordance with good manufacturing practices. These include dairy products, confections, fruits and vegetables, baked goods, breakfast cereals, eggs, fish, beverages such as sports drinks and beer, and meats.

http://www.foodinsight.org/Resources/Detail.aspx?topic=Questions_and_Answers_about_Ammonium_Hydroxide_Use_in_Food_Production

[GlorifiedRice]

Hi,

I recently had to buy 2 packs of ground beef for recipes. I dont buy red meat often buy I did notice that my local supermarket no longer sells store wrapped ground beef anymore. Its all in plastic tubs, with a heat sealed lid now.

In both the recipes I made I noticed that there was no tough fibers or gristle, nor was it chewy like most ground beef is.

It also had a 2 week expiration date stamped on it.

I think it was all pink slime.

it fell apart like the insides of fried Scrapple.

How do you tell if YOU have Pink Slime?

I think if it has been prepackaged, has an expiration date and is soft with no gristle, its pink slime

[rotuts]

it may or may not have been PS. talk to the butchers at your store if there are any or the manager take the labels back and get your $$$

Ive noticed that some 'outsourced' GB does look a little different. I think its very very finely ground

for what ever reason

so avoid it as it just might be very finely ground bits you might not like to categorize.

Edited November 15, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[Shalmanese]

Hi,

I recently had to buy 2 packs of ground beef for recipes. I dont buy red meat often buy I did notice that my local supermarket no longer sells store wrapped ground beef anymore. Its all in plastic tubs, with a heat sealed lid now.

In both the recipes I made I noticed that there was no tough fibers or gristle, nor was it chewy like most ground beef is.

It also had a 2 week expiration date stamped on it.

I think it was all pink slime.

it fell apart like the insides of fried Scrapple.

How do you tell if YOU have Pink Slime?

I think if it has been prepackaged, has an expiration date and is soft with no gristle, its pink slime

I can't be all pink slime. Pink slime is added, at most, at 20% to ground beef. No tough fibers and gristle? Sounds like you're actually getting better beef than you're used to.

[Norm Matthews]

I think store ground beef is made in store with no pink slime at all. It's the kind that comes in a tube from some central location that you need to be concerned about.

[annabelle]

I think it depends on the store, Norm. Some stores no longer have their own butcher shops and have all of their meats delivered from a central warehouse.

But, yes definitely stay away from the tube o' beef. It not only contains pink slime (which honestly, can't hurt you) but has flecks of bone chips that interferes with one's burger munching.

[GlorifiedRice]

I think store ground beef is made in store with no pink slime at all. It's the kind that comes in a tube from some central location that you need to be concerned about.

My store no longer sells store ground beef...

This is store ground beef:

http://www.komu.com/images/news/ground-beef.jpg

This is not:

http://www.filipino-food-lovers.com/site-images/beef_giniling/ground_beef.jpg

The bottom photo is representative of what my store is now selling, but not the actual package. Its packaged at some factory elsewhere,

Stamped with a expiration date and heat sealed in the plastic tub.

Im just creeped out

[rotuts]

I actually think you can worry less.

Just ask the manager and look them in the eye. in a casual way.

I don't think you are getting PS.

Id like to hear what happens after the Chat with the Manager.

remember this: the manager wants you back.

[Shalmanese]

I think store ground beef is made in store with no pink slime at all. It's the kind that comes in a tube from some central location that you need to be concerned about.

My store no longer sells store ground beef...

This is store ground beef:

http://www.komu.com/images/news/ground-beef.jpg

This is not:

http://www.filipino-food-lovers.com/site-images/beef_giniling/ground_beef.jpg

The bottom photo is representative of what my store is now selling, but not the actual package. Its packaged at some factory elsewhere,

Stamped with a expiration date and heat sealed in the plastic tub.

Im just creeped out

Umm... Ground Beef almost always comes the 2nd way for me when you get it at a supermarket. I've seen the first before in places but not often. The second can also be packed in stores, it requires a little bit more machinery but it's a vastly superior packaging. It's highly likely that they just upgraded their machinery and it's exactly the same ground beef as before, except now it has better keeping properties due to the modified atmosphere packing.

Why not just talk to the store manager instead of speculating pointlessly on the internet?

[dcarch]

I think store ground beef is made in store with no pink slime at all. It's the kind that comes in a tube from some central location that you need to be concerned about.

My store no longer sells store ground beef...

This is store ground beef:

http://www.komu.com/images/news/ground-beef.jpg

This is not:

http://www.filipino-food-lovers.com/site-images/beef_giniling/ground_beef.jpg

The bottom photo is representative of what my store is now selling, but not the actual package. Its packaged at some factory elsewhere,

Stamped with a expiration date and heat sealed in the plastic tub.

Im just creeped out

I think the second way allows them to inject the package with carbon monoxide, which makes the meat pink.

dcarch

[Ashen]

I believe Dcarch is correct. It would also explain the prominent use by date. interesting article about carbon monoxide in map packaging here.

https://www.uoguelph.ca/foodsafetynetwork/carbon-monoxide-and-meat

[GlorifiedRice]

I believe Dcarch is correct. It would also explain the prominent use by date. interesting article about carbon monoxide in map packaging here.

https://www.uoguelph.ca/foodsafetynetwork/carbon-monoxide-and-meat

Yeah, but thats why I feel that type of meat is Pink Slime. Fresh ground meat from a store lasts 3 days max in the fridge. The heat sealed MAP packaged meat has a 3 week expiration date, which leads me to believe it is chock full of chemicals. And the texture is just odd. I mean even the freeze dried burgers from Nutrisystem have more texture.

Im sorry if im making a lot out of this but its creeping me out

[rotuts]

also, could there be a chance that the package was irradiated also? why no ask. may of us would like to know.

[Norm Matthews]

I think store ground beef is made in store with no pink slime at all. It's the kind that comes in a tube from some central location that you need to be concerned about.

My store no longer sells store ground beef...

This is store ground beef:

http://www.komu.com/images/news/ground-beef.jpg

This is not:

http://www.filipino-food-lovers.com/site-images/beef_giniling/ground_beef.jpg

The bottom photo is representative of what my store is now selling, but not the actual package. Its packaged at some factory elsewhere,

Stamped with a expiration date and heat sealed in the plastic tub.

Im just creeped out

That's good to know. Here in Kansas City, Hen House market where I usually shop have butchers and grind their own meat. It's weighed and wrapped right after you ask for it. They will do a custom grind if you ask for it.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Norm Matthews (log)

[GlorifiedRice]

also, could there be a chance that the package was irradiated also? why no ask. may of us would like to know.

I am going tomorrow. Ill ask then..I just had a rare 4 days that I didnt go grocery shopping or leave the house.

I guess Ill actually drag out the meat grinder attachment of my Oster Kitchen Center from now on.

[rotuts]

if you also have a Cuisinart or its equivalent right there on the counter that works fine for small batch grinding with Chill-pulse-chill method Ive found.

keep your blade sharp which is fairly easy to do once you get the idea and have a long handled manual sharpener of any sort.

[SylviaLovegren]

My husband's been buying frozen beef burgers. In Toronto, you have to look to find "beef" burgers that are pure beef and not adulterated with soy, onion, salt, pepper and "flavorings." Blech. Anyway, he had been getting the adulterated burgers because they are cheap and much easier to find than pure burgers but I always refused to eat them because the taste was peculiar -- and it wasn't just the taste of soy and old onion juice that bothered me. The other day I really looked at one of those things as he took it out of the pan and noticed that the texture wasn't ground beef, but wormy tubes.

Wormy pink tubes = extruded product = probably pink slime, amirite? They smell like very old dead animals to me, too.

I made comments. Hub won't be buying those burgers any more.