Pink Slime

[ScoopKW]

Well, I'm certainly glad the US consumer is taking pink slime seriously. Perhaps they will start to investigate this particular rabbit hole, and learn that it's basically bottomless.

It appears to me that people are incensed about this because now that the pink slime is no longer marketable to adults, so they're fobbing it off on kids lunches. Me, I'm thinking, "Well of COURSE they are." They'll send that slime down to the people who are least-informed about food. That's how these companies roll.

Yet, advocate clear honest food labeling, and an embarrassingly large segment of our citizenry will cry, "You want to usher in a nanny state!" I'm a firm believer that people should know how much petroleum they're getting in their packaged Mac & Cheese, their juices, and anything else that has petroleum-based dyes and preservatives.

(Hell, I'd rather eat ammonia than petroleum. My grandmother used baker's ammonia to make wonderful little crisp cookies. And that stuff has been used for generations.)

We can't rely on the media to educate -- they're too busy [censoring] themselves out for advertising dollars to write about what's in our food. We can't rely on the government, because they're in the pockets of the corporations selling the food. The food environment has been gamed to the point that most consumers only care about price and convenience.

[annabelle]

Doubtless it is food grade petroleum, Scoop. The same stuff that is used in lip balms, cosmetics, and balms like Vicks Vaporub and Metholatum. Any cosmetic must be digestible, so it's not like manufacturers are mixing Wynn's motor oil into food.

As gfweb and I were discussing above, there is the potential for great danger to the public from the pink slime. As he says, prions are little understood and deadly in all cases. One infected animal could potentially infect a massive amount of pink slime and in turn who knows how many children. Various E. colis are bad enough and often deadly. Prions are always deadly.

[ScoopKW]

Doubtless it is food grade petroleum, Scoop. The same stuff that is used in lip balms, cosmetics, and balms like Vicks Vaporub and Metholatum. Any cosmetic must be digestible, so it's not like manufacturers are mixing Wynn's motor oil into food.

As gfweb and I were discussing above, there is the potential for great danger to the public from the pink slime. As he says, prions are little understood and deadly in all cases. One infected animal could potentially infect a massive amount of pink slime and in turn who knows how many children. Various E. colis are bad enough and often deadly. Prions are always deadly.

And I would point out that since our knowledge of medicine is incomplete, consumers should know exactly what goes into their food. What percentage of the shopping public in America knows what's in BHA or Red #40?

Pink slime is just another symptom of an industry that is rotten to the core.

[andiesenji]

Doubtless it is food grade petroleum, Scoop. The same stuff that is used in lip balms, cosmetics, and balms like Vicks Vaporub and Metholatum. Any cosmetic must be digestible, so it's not like manufacturers are mixing Wynn's motor oil into food.

As gfweb and I were discussing above, there is the potential for great danger to the public from the pink slime. As he says, prions are little understood and deadly in all cases. One infected animal could potentially infect a massive amount of pink slime and in turn who knows how many children. Various E. colis are bad enough and often deadly. Prions are always deadly.

And I would point out that since our knowledge of medicine is incomplete, consumers should know exactly what goes into their food. What percentage of the shopping public in America knows what's in BHA or Red #40?

Pink slime is just another symptom of an industry that is rotten to the core.

Exactly what I was attempting to put forth in my previous post that was taken apart so thoroughly. (The expert was a clinician at either UCLA or USC) If people want to eat ligaments and tendons (and many do, in several cultures) that's not a problem. It's when the stuff is machined and altered with chemical additives and sold to the public as an ingredient in "extra-lean ground beef" that triggers my objections.

Just in the last few years we have learned that long term EXCESSIVE consumption of nitrites (as in meat preservatives) can cause kidney, liver and nerve damage as well as testicular degeneration in males (of various species) whose diet is otherwise lacking in certain important nutrients. (I believe some of these studies were done at Duke University.) and the treating of beef or other animal by-products with ammonia has not been used long enough for anyone to know what the future potential might be.

The whole point is that people should have the information about the ingredients in the food they are consuming so they can make an informed choice. If they choose to buy the product, that is their concern. It is hiding or making it difficult to discern the information that is wrong, and in my opinion akin to fraud.

Edited March 16, 2012 by andiesenji (log)

[Kouign Aman]

I'm curious.

If pink slime offends you, do you also shun sausage? Chorizo?

I'm curious because the last sausage recipe I read involved getting together all the bits that weren't specific cuts, boiling the bones to get the meat off them, mixing the mess together, grinding it up, adding flavorings (spices), and nitrates and nitrites, then stuffing it into guts, for cooking and eating.

This process rather closely resembles the pink slime process, to my eyes.

What are the relative risks of eating ammonia (or more probably, ammonia break-down products) vs nitrates?

[rotuts]

I think everyone agrees who has posted to this thread that we should be able to be told truthfully what in what we eat.

That's what started the US FDA a long time ago. But ... under economic 'pressure' this is unlikely to happen soon. This seems 'True Truth in labeling' much more important that occupying wall street or what ever.

We get what we put up with. And we pay for it one way or another.

as nitrites has been brought up: think 'no added nitrites' but the clever addition of 'natural celery':

http://ruhlman.com/2011/05/the-no-nitrites-added-hoax/

Im not for nor against nitrites. But Id like to know what Im buying.

[ScoopKW]

I think everyone agrees who has posted to this thread that we should be able to be told truthfully what in what we eat.

Actually, I don't think everyone agrees about that.

[annabelle]

I'm curious.

If pink slime offends you, do you also shun sausage? Chorizo?

I'm curious because the last sausage recipe I read involved getting together all the bits that weren't specific cuts, boiling the bones to get the meat off them, mixing the mess together, grinding it up, adding flavorings (spices), and nitrates and nitrites, then stuffing it into guts, for cooking and eating.

This process rather closely resembles the pink slime process, to my eyes.

What are the relative risks of eating ammonia (or more probably, ammonia break-down products) vs nitrates?

It does, doesn't it? Sausages have always been a foodstuff of the poor, and for good reason. It's cheap and nasty, unless it is a premium sausage such as our elders never ate. As for nitrates and nitrites? My great-grandparents pretty much lived on salt pork that was packed in barrels and they lived to a ripe old age and had large amounts of children. I doubt that most people today eat nearly the amount of salts that they did.

I, too would like the answer to your last question re: ammonia break-down products. Is the ammonia shed in waste? What is its impact on the vital organs?

[rotuts]

1) Im pleased that some don't want 'truth-full' labels. Maybe they can just not read them?

2) Sausage is not a food for the poor. Greasy sausage might be, but traditionally when people were more connected to their food, sausage used up scraps, no ammonium need apply and became a serious art form.

aged sausage with that white 'dusting' on the casing told you something about the product.

My Grandparents did not have the sodium issues that we do, because the more or less started from scratch.

If they were wealthy they hired some one to cook for them, if not they did it themselves.

The sodium issues are very real, and if you would like to 'cut back' good luck on most things in a can etc.

[Norm Matthews]

I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was OK. I think it is gross that the USDA thinks it is OK to label something as 100% beef and still allow anything from a cow to be called beef. It does not have to be meat. And the other statement I made was meant to say that whoever thought it would be OK to call it 'pink slime" should never, ever be given a job with any PR firm.

But it's not 'anything from a cow'. Note that the centrifuge is used to remove fat from beef trimmings - leaving what? Beef. No two ways around that.

And if there was a labeling requirement, it would probably read "Contains boneless lean beef trimmings".

The only thing I find potentially controversial is that ammonia is used as a food safety instrument. But it appears to work as.... (from the above link)

Food safety experts in 2011 acknowledged the role of such processes in protecting the United States’ food supply against events such as the European E. coli outbreak.[5]

Okay, so it's safe, but it's an inferior product, right?

On December 24th, 2011, McDonald's, Burger King and Taco Bell announced they would discontinue the use of BPI products in their food.[6][4]

Has anyone noticed a difference? I haven't. Anyone care to claim that they're awesome now?

Apparently there was a mis read on what I was saying. The USDA allows gristle, fat, bone meal and pink slime-aka- lean beef trimmings to be present in hamburger and still be labeled 100% beef.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Norm Matthews (log)

[rotuts]

Thats just it: Its from the Beef, also known as a Cow, so its 100% beef.

Remember: the USDA is both a Trade Group Sponsor and a Gov.org group.

they are charged to .....

your health is not their issue

because we put up with it.

[annabelle]

1) Im pleased that some don't want 'truth-full' labels. Maybe they can just not read them?

2) Sausage is not a food for the poor. Greasy sausage might be, but traditionally when people were more connected to their food, sausage used up scraps, no ammonium need apply and became a serious art form.

aged sausage with that white 'dusting' on the casing told you something about the product.

My Grandparents did not have the sodium issues that we do, because the more or less started from scratch.

If they were wealthy they hired some one to cook for them, if not they did it themselves.

The sodium issues are very real, and if you would like to 'cut back' good luck on most things in a can etc.

I believe we are talking about two different kinds of sausages, rotuts. I was speaking of fresh sausages that were often filled with meat and "fillers" that could include sawdust. There is some fascinating literature about life in the tenements of NYC and London before there was a crackdown on adulterated foodstuffs such as the aforementioned sausages and milk that was often diluted with chalk and water before the turn of the last century.

You are, I believe, referring to cured sausages or charcuterie, are you not? Salamis and such? These were uncommon in the Indian Territories were my family settled after the Civil War.

To the point of pink slime, the producers have been caught out, and quite frankly so has our public schools system and by implication this administration and the FDA (See, Scoop, we're not so far apart ) for their willingness to sell this sludge to be served to school children. There is a backlash and who knows where this stuff will end up? I hope it is not in feed for livestock or pet food. Time will tell.

[rotuts]

Well you might be right.

In the Day, you bet 'sausage' had saw-dust in it.

but Now?

Id like to see that.

thats what the initial FDA went after.

now they do what they are Told by their Political Masters.

'vitamin and other Supplements'

help your self. Tooooooooo much money was involved to Do The Right Thing

in the days of Clinton I

[ScoopKW]

To the point of pink slime, the producers have been caught out, and quite frankly so has our public schools system and by implication this administration and the FDA (See, Scoop, we're not so far apart ) for their willingness to sell this sludge to be served to school children. There is a backlash and who knows where this stuff will end up? I hope it is not in feed for livestock or pet food. Time will tell.

I've known about Pink Slime since seeing a whistleblower video about how Chicken McNuggets are made -- about five years ago. While it's nice that people are coming around, I have a feeling that once Pink Slime is outlawed, public concern will wane. And the rest of the disgusting practices perpetrated on the American consumer will continue unabated.

And when those of us who care about such things try to bring them up, we will once again be shot down by people who think we're trying to usher in some kind of nanny state.

[annabelle]

I think everyone who has taken the time to become a member here and to post on this and other matters about our food supply is certainly concerned about our food and how it is treated before it comes to us. Most of us don't have the luxury (or drudgery, depending on your POV) of having a hobby farm and the leisure time to devote to pure pursuit of what passes for wholesome food through friendships with a local source of veg, fruit, meats, et al. Most people do indeed rely on their supermarkets for the bulk of their foodstuffs. I am grateful for the supermarket. It may not be all that, but it's clean, it's well-stocked and it's convenient. And most of all, it is a time-saver.

Convenience foods are always going to be suspect, in particular fast foods, per your Chicken McNuggets example. It is a conflux of cheap foodstuffs indifferently prepared by substandard workers in shoddy conditions. A perfect storm for corruption on a number of levels, but that's another thread.

[andiesenji]

I'm curious.

If pink slime offends you, do you also shun sausage? Chorizo?

I'm curious because the last sausage recipe I read involved getting together all the bits that weren't specific cuts, boiling the bones to get the meat off them, mixing the mess together, grinding it up, adding flavorings (spices), and nitrates and nitrites, then stuffing it into guts, for cooking and eating.

This process rather closely resembles the pink slime process, to my eyes.

What are the relative risks of eating ammonia (or more probably, ammonia break-down products) vs nitrates?

I make my own sausage. I was born and raised on a farm and participated in butchering and the processing of various parts.

I do know what goes into sausage, head cheese and etc., which is why I have always made my own, except in very rare instances.

[IndyRob]

This timely article is currently featured on Bing's News home page. The author actually tracks down ground beef with and without and does a side by side test.

The plain old ground beef is the winner, but the distinctions are pretty slight. This didn't really surprise me, but the author mentions some grittiness from bone shards. Now that, I have a big problem with. But I do find myself wondering whether that came from the slime (how would bone fragments get past the centrifuge?), or a lower quality ground beef - before the slime was added.

I've had a similar experience with WalMart frozen pork breakfast sausages.

ETA: Correction: He complained of gristle, not bone. I had read this earlier in the day and re-read it after I posted. Upon reflection, I have a big problem with his methodology.

Edited March 16, 2012 by IndyRob (log)

[TheTInCook]

I read that article.

Found it kinda funny how he praised the exuditiveness of the 'all natural' beef. I want my juices in the burger, not in a puddle on my plate.

[annabelle]

The one and only time I bought a "chub" of hamburger (don't ask ) it was full of bone chips. I fried it up and fed it to my dogs since they don't mind.

[TheTInCook]

No bone chips in the two chubs I've bought this year. Only ever had a bone chip in fast food burgers, and that was years ago.

[heidih]

the LA Times just reported that Kroger has joined a number of other large chains that have dropped products which include it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-pink-slime-20120322,0,1133733.story

[andiesenji]

the LA Times just reported that Kroger has joined a number of other large chains that have dropped products which include it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-pink-slime-20120322,0,1133733.story

Ch. 9 yesterday afternoon had a segment on it that stated Safeway/Vons and Costco were cancelling it and Ralphs was "considering" it.

[Darienne]

Just heard on the noon news that 3 large plants are discontinuing the production of pink slime. YES!

[jmolinari]

the LA Times just reported that Kroger has joined a number of other large chains that have dropped products which include it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-pink-slime-20120322,0,1133733.story

Ch. 9 yesterday afternoon had a segment on it that stated Safeway/Vons and Costco were cancelling it and Ralphs was "considering" it.

Costco, and Publix, were some of the few which never used pink slime.

I'm all for technology to improve efficiency and reduce waste, but this grossed even me out. I think it was the ammoniation stage that did it.

[SusieQ]

I like that this practice has finally come out in the open if only because now my partner doesn't think I'm really nuts (maybe just a little nuts). You see, I opened up a package of ground beef about a year ago and there was quite the strong smell of ammonia from it. I had never come across that before and was alarmed. My partner said it was all in my head. I thought maybe it was all in my head. I went ahead and cooked it because I couldn't justify throwing it out, and as far as I remember, it didn't taste any different. Now I would take it back to the store.