Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

cbread

SideKIC: Cheap sous vide circulator.

Recommended Posts

The SideKIC looks nice as a SV-to-go solution. Personally, I'm not too fond of using ghetto SV for reheating purposes and for longer distances, taking bagged & cooked food with you is often not possible due to cooling issues (dry ice is not readily available in Europe). I know it's probably a bit early, but have you got any plans for a 230 V/50 Hz version?

Plans, yes, but not in production yet. (Sorry about that). Actually there's not a lot we have to change, but unfortunately we can't do everything at once. If the US version goes well, we're definitely going to put together an EU version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to hear more about the steam injector!!!

Excellent, this was a great kitchen hack. It probably should be in a different thread, though. I'll write up a post about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the answers, Duncan! And welcome to the forums. I'm looking forward to ordering my SideKic, in week or so (mid-month is for discretionary purchases, first-of-month is for bills!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who are considering this and worried about the heating up time, just run your tap water until it is a few degrees hotter than target (to allow for the drop in temperature when you add the food). Then fill your cooking vessel, inset sous vide setup and you're off and running - problem gone in one easy step.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, Nick: I very rarely allow my current "ghetto" sous vide rig to heat tap water from room temp all the way to cooking temperatures. Especially for high-temperature vegetable cooking, I nearly always preheat the water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The SideKIC looks nice as a SV-to-go solution. Personally, I'm not too fond of using ghetto SV for reheating purposes and for longer distances, taking bagged & cooked food with you is often not possible due to cooling issues (dry ice is not readily available in Europe). I know it's probably a bit early, but have you got any plans for a 230 V/50 Hz version?

Plans, yes, but not in production yet. (Sorry about that). Actually there's not a lot we have to change, but unfortunately we can't do everything at once. If the US version goes well, we're definitely going to put together an EU version.

If the price point is the same in Australia I'll get one. I agree with Nick & Chris about not relying on the heater to bring the water to temperature, but any chance of a more powerful heater to take advantage of the beefier current outside of the US?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duncan,

Thanks so much for coming on to our forum here with good information!

Could you give any estimate of max capacity of one of your units if water is pre-heated before going into the cooking vessel, and assuming the cooking vessel would be well insulated on sides and bottom, and partially insulated at the top? I know those descriptors are pretty wooly, but I'm looking for a ballpark volume.

I'm thinking of a stainless tank with 1 1/2 or 2" foam insulation added to the sides and bottom, and a floating foam lid covering maybe 90% of the water surface to reduce thermal and evaporative losses.

Would you recommend any different max capacities at the 175-195 F temperatures used with vegetables?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duncan,

Thanks so much for coming on to our forum here with good information!

Could you give any estimate of max capacity of one of your units if water is pre-heated before going into the cooking vessel, and assuming the cooking vessel would be well insulated on sides and bottom, and partially insulated at the top? I know those descriptors are pretty wooly, but I'm looking for a ballpark volume.

I'm thinking of a stainless tank with 1 1/2 or 2" foam insulation added to the sides and bottom, and a floating foam lid covering maybe 90% of the water surface to reduce thermal and evaporative losses.

Would you recommend any different max capacities at the 175-195 F temperatures used with vegetables?

It's a 300W heater so it can pump out 491 Quart * F of heat in an hour. Put the water of the desired temp in your vessel, let it cool for an hour, measure the temperature difference in F. divide 491 by that number and you have your maximum number of quarts that it can maintain in the ideal state.

eg: If you measure a drop of 10 F over an hour, that means you can at most heat 49 quarts. Note that this is the maximum capacity which means if you drop cold food in there, it will never recover.

edit: note that heat loss decreases as the vessel gets colder so if it's an uninsulated vessel, it would be better to measure the heat loss after 15 minutes and multiply by 4 rather than wait the full hour.


Edited by Shalmanese (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duncan,

Thanks so much for coming on to our forum here with good information!

Could you give any estimate of max capacity of one of your units if water is pre-heated before going into the cooking vessel, and assuming the cooking vessel would be well insulated on sides and bottom, and partially insulated at the top? I know those descriptors are pretty wooly, but I'm looking for a ballpark volume.

I'm thinking of a stainless tank with 1 1/2 or 2" foam insulation added to the sides and bottom, and a floating foam lid covering maybe 90% of the water surface to reduce thermal and evaporative losses.

Would you recommend any different max capacities at the 175-195 F temperatures used with vegetables?

It's a 300W heater so it can pump out 491 Quart * F of heat in an hour. Put the water of the desired temp in your vessel, let it cool for an hour, measure the temperature difference in F. divide 491 by that number and you have your maximum number of quarts that it can maintain in the ideal state.

eg: If you measure a drop of 10 F over an hour, that means you can at most heat 49 quarts. Note that this is the maximum capacity which means if you drop cold food in there, it will never recover.

edit: note that heat loss decreases as the vessel gets colder so if it's an uninsulated vessel, it would be better to measure the heat loss after 15 minutes and multiply by 4 rather than wait the full hour.

This is an excellent answer, thanks for pitching in. Doing this experimentally would be a good idea, because Shalmanese's calculation refers to optimal conditions while in practice conditions will be sub-optimal. (And not to quibble, but 4.18J is the heat capacity at 25C; at 90C I think it would be around 4.20. That doesn't significantly impact the calculation).

However I want to note one other limitation, we cap the cooking temperature at 185F / 85C. This was an arbitrary limit but it does mean that it won't hold temperature over that number.

Officially, we suggest no more than 10 quarts, and I should stick to that number. I think given the responses that I'm hearing here, we should probably build a "pro" version with more power; but for now, the 300 Watts will limit the size of the container you use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(And not to quibble, but 4.18J is the heat capacity at 25C; at 90C I think it would be around 4.20.)

4.205 :raz:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However I want to note one other limitation, we cap the cooking temperature at 185F / 85C. This was an arbitrary limit but it does mean that it won't hold temperature over that number.

I'd suggest that capping the temp at 194°F/90°C would be more useful, if the cap is truly arbitrary: Modernist Cuisine recommends that a number of fruits and vegetables be cooked sous vide at that temperature, and capping there would allow us to use the SideKIC for about 99.9% of the sous vide recipes out there. With vegetables you can usually simply increase the cooking time to compensate for the lower temperature, but obviously it's easier to use the time/temp specified in the recipe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think given the responses that I'm hearing here, we should probably build a "pro" version with more power; but for now, the 300 Watts will limit the size of the container you use.

If you could build a "pro" version for another $100, I think you would be flooded with requests.

My question is what would a "pro" version entail? And could you do it for that price?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmmm.... A pro version? I don't know about "pro" but the things that come to mind that I'd be looking for are:

1. A clamp to secure the tool to the edge of the vessel.

2. 195 F capability.

3. Have the bottom reach deeper into the water so that it would be less likely to run dry during prolonged operation; a greater waterline differential between too full and too empty.

You see where this is heading? My first circulator hasn't yet arrived, and here I am specifying details for the next one, a device as yet not even in production... Oh, Duncan, this site is like quicksand. You were just trying to be helpful and here I am working up a scheme that will cost you tens of thousands in tooling etc... Others soon will be chiming in with requests for chamber vacuum sealers for $300 and rotovaps for $500. Next will be the chorus of those seeking an affordable centrifuge. The gadget quest never ends. You're in deeper than you knew.

Seriously, thanks for producing the SideKic! I'm looking forward to it's arrival.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd suggest that capping the temp at 194°F/90°C would be more useful, if the cap is truly arbitrary: Modernist Cuisine recommends that a number of fruits and vegetables be cooked sous vide at that temperature, and capping there would allow us to use the SideKIC for about 99.9% of the sous vide recipes out there. With vegetables you can usually simply increase the cooking time to compensate for the lower temperature, but obviously it's easier to use the time/temp specified in the recipe.

That is an excellent point. I'm going to run this through testing and see if there's any reason we can't do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. A clamp to secure the tool to the edge of the vessel.

2. 195 F capability.

3. Have the bottom reach deeper into the water so that it would be less likely to run dry during prolonged operation; a greater waterline differential between too full and too empty.

All good suggestions. I'm thinking more heating power, larger pump.

Please don't interpret this as my indicating we're underpowered - I think the existing one is really good for what it does. But there's no reason we can't introduce a bigger-brother machine. As long as the first one does reasonably well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done Duncan!

To be honest, I'm a fairly impatient person also and almost ALWAYS empty my hottest tap water into my SVS to "assist" getting up to temp quicker. I'm assuming that is fairly common practice.

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably in US dollars a bit pricier, but you can get this in Europe for 270 euro ex. VAT. 1300 watts and heats to boiling point. link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A 300 watt heater can do a lot in an insulated vessel.

I started out with a 300 watt heat in a beer cooler, (I don't know how many quarts) and it worked fine.

Many pumps use a brushless rotor design, and the rotor/impeller is always lubricated by water. They can last a long time.

The one thing that can be worn out perhaps are relay contacts from cycling on and off, unless it is a solid state relay.

I noticed that the unit is not electrically grounded. I think it may be a good idea to advise users to use a GFP electric outlet. Just a suggestion.

dcarch.


Edited by dcarch (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably in US dollars a bit pricier, but you can get this in Europe for 270 euro ex. VAT. 1300 watts and heats to boiling point. link

That's fairly impressive. Doesn't appear to come in US voltage, however. I especially like the vacuum sealer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the first thing I can tell you is the shipping is quick...

It was shipped USPS (not my favorite option, but hey, it arrived...)

1 of 6 - Outside box.jpg

Inside the box (after removing the documentation and a thin foam sheet):

2 of 6 - Inside box.jpg

Here it is with a Thermapen for size reference:

3 of 6 - Size reference.jpg

A close-up of the screen (which is a plastic material of some kind, and reasonably fine)

4 of 6 - Innards.jpg

The controller is basically just a screen and a clickable wheel: not many moving parts to break

5 of 6 - Controller.jpg

And courtesy of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, here is a better sense of the scale. In particular, the hook part is 1.25 inches wide, so should fit over the rim of most beer coolers:

6 of 6 - Ruler.jpg

I've just fired the thing up, user interface info coming soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first time you plug the device in it gives you a quick tutorial and asks you what temperature units you want:

Setup 0.jpg

Setup 1.jpg

Setup 2.jpg

Setup 3.jpg

Setup 4.jpg

Setup 5.jpg

It can't get much easier than that. Subsequent power-ons jump straight to that last screen there, showing its set temp, actual temp, and how long it has been running. The bottom line can be changed to a countdown timer as well.

The next step was to turn it on and start playing. I hung it over the edge of a 6-quart stockpot and added five liters of water at 18.3°C (groundwater temp here right now). I set the temperature to 50°C and turned it loose: it took 27 minutes to come to temperature. It overshot by 0.7°C before decaying back down to the set temp. According to my Thermapen, however, when the reading on the device was 50.0°C, the actual temperature of the water was 50.4°C. It held that temperature within 0.2°C while it was running, however, in an uninsulated stainless steel vessel sitting on a countertop (basically a worst-case scenario). It think the device is probably useful for most high-precision cooking provided that you check the temperature with a more accurate thermometer and compensate accordingly before adding your food.

The device itself it basically silent: the hum of the pump is very quiet, and is mostly covered up by the actual splashing of the circulated water. It does not appear to have a buzzer of any kind—it does not make a noise to indicate that the set temp has been reached, or that the countdown timer has finished, so I am assuming this means it does not have the means of doing so. I would strongly recommend to Duncan that future iterations of the board include a piezo device so that you can make a beep of some sort.

Physically the device requires that your water level run relatively close to the top edge of your cooking vessel, and there is not a great deal of margin to accommodate level changes when adding food. The best way to deal with this is to use a relatively wide, shallow cooking vessel, rather than a deep, narrow vessel, to minimize the water level change when adding the food (of course, then you will definitely want a lid of some kind to minimize evaporation). The pump is strong enough that in my standard stockpot the water is pretty close to the rim when it's running: I'd prefer a little more margin.

The countdown timer has a minimum five-minute granularity when being set: the minimum time you can set it for is five minutes and a maximum of 59 hours and 45 minutes. When the countdown timer reaches its conclusion the timer flashes on the screen for five seconds, and then begins counting up to tell you how far over you have gone (the pump does not stop running). It appears that it will only count up to the initial value of the timer: when I tested it I set it for five minutes, and when it had gone over time for five minutes, it reset to zero and started counting up again. I'd guess this is a software bug that has to do with how the device is checking for the timer completion, and is obviously very minor. However, in my opinion, without an audible beeper the timer is basically useless. In addition, it lacks sufficient granularity for cooks that last under 30 minutes (when a one-minute granularity is necessary, IMO), and cannot be set for longer than 59:45 so you can't do a 72 hour cook based on the built-in timer.

Finally, I killed the power externally to simulate a power failure: the device turned back on and remembered the set temperature, but not the cooking time or countdown timer. It did not turn the heater or pump back on when power was restored. If power failure is a concern you will want to take additional measures to deal with it.

My initial impression of the device is that even as it stands right now the SideKIC is worth the $175 it costs, when compared to the alternatives: it has some flaws, but if you have a decent thermometer and your own cooking timer most of them can be easily mitigated. I also think that with some very minor changes (some just software) it could be made an even better value. Obviously this is not a final verdict, since how well it holds up over time will clearly be important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peaking thru the screened housing, I think I see the outline of a typical inexpensive coffee cup immersion heater. I hope not. Those heaters don't last very long.

You should check the temperature setting. Typically PID temperature controllers suggest you not to get the thermalcouple wiring too close to the power line because of possible interferences.

dcarch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that is a comprehensive review. Thanks so much for taking the time. All your criticisms are definitely valid; and I really appreciate that you think it's a good value.

We certainly have some things to improve. While we can make software updates pretty quickly, unfortunately that won't help people who've already got one (perhaps we'll do an update service). I won't defend all of our hardware decisions, but I will say that we made tradeoffs where we thought appropriate; nevertheless I'll take these into consideration when we design a new version.

I really do appreciate your thoroughness here. Tough but fair.

---

Let me clarify a couple of things that people have wondered about:

- It is a simple electric immersion heater, but it should hopefully be beefier than the $5 jobs you can get on Amazon. We've had very good results with it, but time will tell I suppose.

- The thermometer is not a thermocouple, it's a digital sensor with an embedded thermistor. These are factory tuned; I'm a little concerned about the differential you're seeing, I'm going to have to look into it.

- And we're not using a relay or an SSR, we use a non-ZC triac.

Cheers,

Duncan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me stressed that this is a well-designed item (for the price you pay). I didn't mean to critize. Just asking questions.

One good thing as a result of asking questions; I mentioned the possible need for electric grounding, and possible relay contact wearing out.

The use of a non-ZC triac device to control the heater I believe eliminates the contact issue as well as giving a much better isolation of power to ground leak problem. Not bad!

dcarch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duncan,

Are you offering a warranty of any kind? I didn't see it mentioned on the website.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By boilsover
      Solid intermediate cook, here.  Not especially intimidated by elaborate preps.  But I'm new to SV, and would like a recommendation for a cookbook for guidance and exploration.
       
      I was thinking of Tom Keller's Under Pressure, but I'm wondering if the preps he includes may not be the most generally useful.  What do you all like, and why?
       
      Thanks!
    • By Chris Hennes
      On Nov. 7, 2017, Modernist Bread will finally arrive on my doorstep. Having preordered it literally the first day it was available, to say I'm excited about this book is a bit of an understatement. The team at The Cooking Lab have been gracious enough to give @Dave the Cook and me early electronic access to the book and so I've spent the last week pouring over it. I'm just going to start with a few initial comments here (it's 2600 pages long, so a full review is going to take some time, and require a bunch of baking!). Dave and I would also be happy to answer any questions you've got.
       
      One of the main things I've noticed about this book is a change in tone from the original Modernist Cuisine. It comes across as less "everything you know is wrong" and more "eighty bazillion other bakers have contributed to this knowledge and here's our synthesis of it." I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Myhrvold and company are now the most experienced bread-bakers in the world. Not necessarily in terms of the number of identical loaves they've produced, but in the shear number of different recipes and techniques they've tried and the care with which they've analyzed the results. These volumes are a distillation of 100,000 years of human breadmaking experience, topped off with a dose of the Modernist ethos of taking what we know to the next level.
       
      The recipes include weight, volume, and baker's percentages, and almost all of them can be made by both a home baker and someone baking in a commercial facility. The home baker might need to compromise on shape (e.g. you can't fit a full-length baguette in most home ovens) but the book provides clear instructions for both the amateur and professional. The recipes are almost entirely concentrated in volumes 4 and 5, with very few in the other volumes (in contrast to Modernist Cuisine, where there were many recipes scattered throughout). I can't wait for the physical volumes to arrive so that I can have multiple volumes open at once, the recipes cross-reference techniques taught earlier quite frequently.
    • By eG Forums Host
      Introduction

      Welcome to the index for the Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques, & Equipment topic, one of the largest and most influential topics on eG Forums. (The topic has been closed to keep the index stable and reliable; you can find another general SV discussion topic here.) This index is intended to help you navigate the thousands of posts and discussions to make this rich resource more useful and accessible.

      In order to understand sous vide cooking, it's best to clear up some misconceptions and explain some basics. Sous vide cooking involves vacuum-sealing food in a plastic bag and cooking it in a water bath at precise temperatures. Though it translates literally as "under vacuum," "Sous vide" is often taken to mean "under pressure," which is a misnomer; not all SV cooking involves food cooked in conditions that exceed atmospheric pressure. (See below.) In addition, calculations for SV cooking involve not only time and temperature but also thickness. Finally, due to the anaerobic conditions inside the bag and the low temperatures used, food safety issues are paramount.

      You can read the basics of SV cooking and equipment here. In the summer of 2005, Nathan Myhrvold (Society member nathanm) posted this informative, "I'm now going to answer my own initial questions" post, which addresses just about everything up to that point. For what came next, read on -- and be sure to order Nathan Myhrvold's highly anticipated Modernist Cuisine book, due in spring 2011.

      As with all indexes of on-going discussions, this one has limitations. We've done our best to create a user-friendly taxonomy emphasizing the categories that have come up repeatedly. In addition, the science, technology, and recipes changed over time, and opinions varied greatly, so be sure to read updated information whenever possible.

      Therefore, we strongly encourage you to keep these issues in mind when reading the topic, and particularly when considering controversial topics related to food safety, doneness, delta T cooking, and so on. Don't read a first post's definitive claim without reading down the topic, where you'll likely find discussion, if not heated debate or refutation, of that claim. Links go to the first post in a series that may be discontinuous, so be sure to scan a bit more to get the full discussion.

      Recipes were chosen based solely on having a clear set of information, not on merit. Indeed, we've included several stated failures for reference. Where possible, recipes include temperature and time in the link label -- but remember that thickness is also a crucial variable in many SV preparations. (See below for more information on thickness.)

      History, Philosophy & Value of SV/LTLT Cooking

      Over the years, we've talked quite a bit about SV as a concept, starting with this discussion about how SV cooking got started. There have also been several people who asked, Why bother with SV in the first place? (See also this discussion.) What with all the electronics and plastic bags, we asked: Does SV food lack passion? Finally, there have been several discussions about the value of SV cooking in other eG Forums topics, such as the future of SV cooking, No More Sous Vide -- PLEASE!, is SV "real cooking," and what's the appeal of SV?

      Those who embrace SV initially seek ideas about the best applications for their new equipment. Discussions have focused on what a first SV meal should be -- see also this discussion -- and on the items for which SV/LTLT cooking is best suited. There's much more along those lines here, here, and here.

      Vacuums and Pressure in Sous Vide Cooking

      As mentioned above, there has been great confusion about vacuums, pressure, and their role SV cooking. Here is a selection of discussion points on the subject, arranged chronologically; please note that later posts in a given discussion may refute earlier ones:

      Do you need a vacuum for SV cooking, and, if so, why? What exactly is a "vacuum"? Click here, here, and ff. Are items in vacuum-sealed bags "under pressure"? Does a vacuum sealer create a vacuum inside the bag? Do you really need a vacuum, or can you use ZipLoc bags? Also see here, here, and here. If "sous vide" means "under pressure," aren't the items in the bag under pressure? There is more along these lines to be found in this discussion.  

      The Charts

      We've collected the most important of many charts in the SV topic here. Standing above the rest are Nathan Myhrvold's charts for cooking time versus thickness and desired core temperature. We worked with him to create these three reformatted protein tables, for beef, fish, and chicken & pork.

      Nathan provides additional information on his charts here. Information on how to read these charts can be found in this post. For an explanation of "rest time" in Nathan's tables, click here.

      Other Society members helped out as well. Douglas Baldwin references his heating time table for different geometric factors (slab/cylinder/sphere) here; the pdf itself can be found here. pounce created a post with all three tables as neatly formatted images. derekslager created two monospace font charts of Nathan's meat table and his fish table.

      Camano Chef created a cumulative chart with information gathered from other sources including Thomas Keller's Ad Hoc. Douglas Baldwin shared this chart devoted to pasteurizing poultry. PedroG detailed heat loss and steady state energy consumption of sous vide cookers in these charts.

      Finally, there is also an eG Forums topic on cooling rates that may be of interest.

      Acknowledgment & Comments

      This index was built by Chris Amirault, Director, eG Forums. It was reviewed by the eGullet Society volunteer team as well as many Society members. Please send questions or comments to Chris via messenger or email.
       
       
    • By Paul Bacino
      Wonder if someone could get me in the ballpark..the amount of Transglutamase...to make scallop noodles..    %  I mean
       
      ill use a food processor..to purée the scallop..  then inject into a water or broth..to cook?
    • By TomRahav
      Hi,
      I've tried to make the spherical mussels recipe from the Modernist Cuisine books and it didn't work as I expected, so I would appreciate any advice that may help here.
      The recipe calls for calcium gluconate which I couldn't get hold of, so I replaced it with calcium lactate gluconate that I had at home. I used the same ration (2.5%)
      When I tried to create the spheres in the sodium alginate bath I encountered two main problems;
      1. instead of spheres the mixture just stayed as uneven shape on the surface. The bath was 1Kg. water with 5gr. sodium alginate and I let it rest in the fridge for 24 hours before using it so I think the problem is not here. However, the mussels jus mixture (100gr. mussels jus, 0.5gr. xanthin gum and and 2.5gr. calcium lactate gluconate) had a lot of air bubbles in it. Can that be the issue?
      2. In the book the spheres seem to be completely transparent whereas my mussels jus mixture was pretty white and opaque. Is it because I replaced calcium gluconate with calcium lactate gluconate? Or maybe it's because the jus itself should be clarified before it is used?
      Thanks in advance for your support,
      Tom.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×