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shar999

Pasteurizing Eggs Sous Vide

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In Douglas Baldwin's book he states to cook at 135F for 75 minutes.

My questions are: 1. Does this change the consistency of the eggs?

2. Would I still be able to use them to make eggnog

or in a shake?

3. How long can you keep them in

the refrigerator?

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The whites get a touch milky and if you are going to whip the eggs (all or just the whites) it takes bit longer but they whip fine. Other than that you won't notice any difference. Not sure if they last any longer but I've kept them for several weeks after pasteurizing and they've been fine.

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Is there a consensus for 135 deg F for 75 minutes?

 

I ask because the last two times I made bearnaise it had a very bad effect (you don't want to know exactly what).  True, I can eat an entire recipe of bearnaise in one sitting.  Both times I thought about what made me sick, and I'm pretty sure it could only have been the eggs.  Also, in both cases the eggs were from the same carton, and when I went to remove the last egg I found that it was cracked and stuck to the plastic.  I don't think the fault was a problem with my technique as I've been making bearnaise and hollandaise for near fifty years and I don't recall getting ill from it before.

 

The concern about contaminated eggs just pushed me into ordering an Anova last night, not that I did not have other reasons for wanting one.  When pasteurizing or cooking eggs with a circulator like the Anova, does one place the eggs directly in the bath?  Or inside a bag?  So much to learn.

 

Tonight I plan to make hollandaise and I am a little worried.  The Anova won't be here for a while.  New eggs this time at least.

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I dont have the Anova (yet) as i dont need it (yet) but I do eggs SV in the little plastic basket that comes in those salad spinners.

 

try that if you have too much flow.  I use the basket as its easier to place and remove from the hot water.

 

if you 'pre-heat' your eggs w hot tap water  ( << cooking temp ) they may not crack at all in the SV bath.

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Is there a consensus for 135 deg F for 75 minutes?

 

I ask because the last two times I made bearnaise it had a very bad effect (you don't want to know exactly what).  True, I can eat an entire recipe of bearnaise in one sitting.  Both times I thought about what made me sick, and I'm pretty sure it could only have been the eggs.  Also, in both cases the eggs were from the same carton, and when I went to remove the last egg I found that it was cracked and stuck to the plastic.  I don't think the fault was a problem with my technique as I've been making bearnaise and hollandaise for near fifty years and I don't recall getting ill from it before.

 

The concern about contaminated eggs just pushed me into ordering an Anova last night, not that I did not have other reasons for wanting one.  When pasteurizing or cooking eggs with a circulator like the Anova, does one place the eggs directly in the bath?  Or inside a bag?  So much to learn.

 

Tonight I plan to make hollandaise and I am a little worried.  The Anova won't be here for a while.  New eggs this time at least.

If the 135  F eggs made you sick, then the temperature was too low, in the danger zone as defined by USDA.

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In terms of food safety there is a range of times and temperatures that will work: while Baldwin's time and temp work fine, I use the time/temp from Modernist Cuisine (chart on p. 4•76), 55°C/131°F for two hours. I don't note any differences between the pasteurized egg and the completely raw.


Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

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If the 135  F eggs made you sick, then the temperature was too low, in the danger zone as defined by USDA.

My reading of her post was that unpasteurized eggs are her suspected culprit, so she's interested in using pasteurization to prevent the problem in the future: 135°F is certainly not too low to pasteurize.


Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

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My reading of her post was that unpasteurized eggs are her suspected culprit, so she's interested in using pasteurization to prevent the problem in the future: 135°F is certainly not too low to pasteurize.

Two hours at 131 F allow time for pathogens to grow, rather than die. I don't understand how the rules can change just because it is sous vide.

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nothing grows at 131.  the eggs get there much quicker than 2 hrs.  the extra time is for ....

 

no rules change.  look into it.  I think youve missed some of the points of pasteurization.

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Two hours at 131 F allow time for pathogens to grow, rather than die. I don't understand how the rules can change just because it is sous vide.

This is not true: none of the pathogens we are concerned with in the kitchen grow at 131°F: Salmonella, for example, begins to die at 120°F. If you have a look at the table on p. 1•193 of Modernist Cuisine you can see the "thermal death curve" -- technically to achieve a 6.5D reduction in Salmonella at 55°C/131°F it takes 1 hour 31 minutes. Allowing some margin for error in our equipment we see that a 6.5D reduction at 130°F takes 1h 54m, or about two hours. 


Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

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I'm not going to disagree with Chris or rotuts without a thorough search,  but I have to wonder why USDA and other authorities, including public health inspectors, suggest a 140 F minimum?

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I highly recommend reading Volume 1 of Modernist Cuisine, which spends nearly a hundred pages explaining precisely why the USDA and FDA make the recommendations they do, and why they are wrong. It's an interesting, if infuriating, read.


Edited by Chris Hennes They call it a Volume, not a Book (log)
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Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

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To clarify, I believe it was unpasteurized eggs that made me ill.  I was asking if there was agreement on an optimal time and temperature for pasteurization.  I have read MC vol 1 but I don't have it in front of me.  I like the idea of 131 deg F for 2 hours.

 

Having just read the Anova manual, it seems eggs should not be put in the bath directly.  Would a zip-lock bag work OK?

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The concern is that the circulation action causes the eggs to bang around and sometimes crack: pretty much anything that limits this will do. Some people use mesh baskets, some press the eggs into a whisk, I personally have a small bag meant for sending pastry tips through the dishwasher that works great. A plastic bag is probably not a great option since it will tend to trap air and cause the eggs to float, but it can be done.


Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

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To clarify, I believe it was unpasteurized eggs that made me ill.  I was asking if there was agreement on an optimal time and temperature for pasteurization.  I have read MC vol 1 but I don't have it in front of me.  I like the idea of 131 deg F for 2 hours.

 

Having just read the Anova manual, it seems eggs should not be put in the bath directly.  Would a zip-lock bag work OK?

Eggs may crack, placing them in a Ziploc bag is strongly recommended to avoid messing up a circulator or FMM, see the topic "All bout sous vide eggs". Suspend the Ziploc on a skewer (facilitates retrieval without scalding your hands) and fill it with just enough hot water from the SV bath to remove the air.


Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

eG Ethics Signatory

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I cook eggs in a bag that I fill with just enough water (from the bath) to cover the eggs. I used to put them directly into the circulator, but a hairline fracture in one egg was enough to gunk up my circulator, which was a pain to clean. Using bags is cleaner and makes getting the eggs in and out much easier.

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I'm not going to disagree with Chris or rotuts without a thorough search,  but I have to wonder why USDA and other authorities, including public health inspectors, suggest a 140 F minimum?

 

This is a reasonable question.  The short answer is that the "danger zone" guidelines were designed with a significant margin for error.  If you don't have access to Modernist Cuisine (nor do I), you might take a look at Douglas Baldwin's Practical Guide to Sous Vide Cooking, especially the section on Food Safety.

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I have my first contingent of four free range eggs pasteurizing as we speak.  Temperature is 55 deg C on my Anova, time is set for two hours.  The eggs are in a zip lock bag, inside my wonderful new foodpod:

 

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/112354-whats-new-in-kitchen-gadgets/?p=1956409

 

 

I considered sealing the eggs in the Polyscience 300, but I feared the result might be something out of an outer space, horror, sci-fi show.

 

When the eggs are done, should I rapid chill them in an ice bath, or might that crack the shells?

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No eggs cracked in the ice bath, but one egg cracked in the Anova.  No fluids leaked that I could see, and anyhow the egg was in a sealed bag.  Next time I won't put all the eggs in one bag.  There is a moral in there somewhere.

 

And, as they say, when life gives you lemons...make a Bosom Caresser.

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No eggs cracked in the ice bath, but one egg cracked in the Anova. 

 

If you did have an egg crack open, would gum up the Anova in any serious way? I've just looked at pictures, but it looks like there's no enclosed anything that would be hard to clean (iike the pump assembly on a Poly Science). Just a free-hanging impeller and a washable housing, yes?

 

Not that a broken egg would be super fun, but it doesn't seem like a disaster.


Notes from the underbelly

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The Anova stainless steel cover goes in the dishwasher, but you'd still have to clean the heating coil and such.  Nothing impossible, but why make a mess if you don't have to?

 

One thing I noticed about the pastueurized egg yolk:  when I made the Bosom Caresser, quite a bit of the yolk protein denatured into lumps.  Reminded me of my college days making eggnog with lab alcohol.  Now, I've never had the pleasure of a Bosom Caresser with a non-pasteurized yolk, so I don't know if it is typical, however it was unexpected.

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In terms of food safety there is a range of times and temperatures that will work: while Baldwin's time and temp work fine, I use the time/temp from Modernist Cuisine (chart on p. 4•76), 55°C/131°F for two hours. I don't note any differences between the pasteurized egg and the completely raw.

 

Do you cook longer for jumbo eggs?

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