Cooking large vs. small cuts sous vide.

[torolover]

I've always assumed roasting a large cut of meat like a Boston Pork Butt would be juicier then roasting a small cut of Boston Pork Butt, because the thickness of the large cut would help the juices stay in the meat. I always slow roast a 5 pound Boston Pork Butt Momofuku style instead of 1 pound Pork Butt. Am I making a wrong assumption?

Now I'm thinking of Sous Viding the Boston Pork Butt. I know Sous Vide at low temperatures won't dry out the meat as much as an oven, and it's more convenient to portion off 4 ounces of meat then roasting a 5 pounder.

Even with Sous Vide, don't the smaller portions of meat (less then 4 ounces) still dry out more then a large cut of meat (more then 2 pounds)?

[slkinsey]

There should be no benefit gained by cooking a larger cut sous vide. And, in fact, in some cases it is bad to do so because the larger cut is too large to come up to temperature within a safe timeframe.

[mark28209]

A potentially relevant recent experiment driven by a great two-for one on pork butts.

Butt 1:I basically followed Doug Baldwin's recipe - divided a 5ish pounder into 3 1.5-2" slabs, brined them a couple days.

Slab 1: Brined only -- per Doug

Slab 2&3: I made a batch of salt-free dry rub which I applied lightly to #2 and refrigerated for an hour.

I then smoked slabs 2 and 3 (unrubbed) over hickory in a SmokinTex for a couple hours @ 200.

Bagged all three/10 hours @ 175 per Doug in a SVSupreme.

Butt 2: Rubbed (same stuff but with salt) and refrigerated while the others brined. Smoked at 225 (OK 200 for the first two hours) for 20ish hours to an internal temp of 185.

The differences in the piles of hand-pulled pork was less among the SV variants than between the SV trio and the conventionally smoked butt. The SV trio were noticeably moister/more succulent but lacked the texture and taste contrast/complexity that the crunchy/chewy bits from 20 hours in the smoker bring. Not one better than the other, but a significantly different experience in nose and mouth. (Excuse my ignorance, but does the Maillard reaction also happen at bbq/low temps as well as saute/high temps?)

Re the differences among the SV trio. I personally preferred the two slabs that were pre-smoked, closer to my expectations of pulled pork but the unsmoked version was delicious. Even with the addition of my version of a vinegar/hot pepper based sauce which I thought might diminish the smoke, it was there. The addition of the light dry rub to the smoke was only marginally helpful to my palette.

What was wickedly wonderful was combining the traditional smoker and SV piles, the best pulled pork I've done/tasted. I mixed the SV trio together since the differences were slight. In the combo, there was dark n'crunchy complexity from the smoker and a moist tender richness from the SV.

I am not sure if 50/50 is the optimal mix, more SV may be better. I definitely would not bother with the pre-smoking step in the SV prep, reverting to Doug's recipe. The preparation timelines are roughly the same for the two approaches, neither prep is daunting, and the result is outrageous . . . if you have a smoker and a SV kit.

Cheers,

Mark

[torolover]

Wow Mark! This kind of experiment is what I was looking for!

I have done the Momofuku Bo Saam which roasts the 5 pound Boston Butt for 6 hours at 300F. Then you add brown sugar on top and blast it at 500 to get the fatty top caramalized and crispy.

It has always came out amazing with a crisp fatty sweet surface and moist succulent interior. I think what makes it great is that there are some parts that are tender but with some bite, and some parts that are falling apart tender and fatty.

I was hoping to replicate it using a smaller portion with Sous Vide, but I guess after your experiment I should expect the Sous vide version to be less complex and just soft.

Now I'm curious about if it's better to roast a 4 pound pork Belly VS Sous Vide Pork Belly. Any experiments with the pork belly?

[mark28209]

Hi Torolover,

No, I haven't done pork belly (as yet) but it seems a major hit. My personal taste preferences drift away from significant fatty bits, even with the magic of SV. I did batches of short ribs when I first got my SVS. Too rich for this guy's blood. But DO the belly . . . and post your results.

The Momofuku technique certainly works marvelously . . . but there ain't no smoke in them thar hills. I've tried Momofuku with some liquid smoke when I haven't had 20+ hours lead time. Very good but nowhere near my combo of SV and traditional smoking. Do you have access to a smoker? If you don't, I would personally stick with Momofuku over SV for the texture and flavor complexity that you get with the final heat blast.

Cheers,

Mark

[PedroG]

I've always assumed roasting a large cut of meat like a Boston Pork Butt would be juicier then roasting a small cut of Boston Pork Butt, because the thickness of the large cut would help the juices stay in the meat. I always slow roast a 5 pound Boston Pork Butt Momofuku style instead of 1 pound Pork Butt. Am I making a wrong assumption?

Now I'm thinking of Sous Viding the Boston Pork Butt. I know Sous Vide at low temperatures won't dry out the meat as much as an oven, and it's more convenient to portion off 4 ounces of meat then roasting a 5 pounder.

Even with Sous Vide, don't the smaller portions of meat (less then 4 ounces) still dry out more then a large cut of meat (more then 2 pounds)?

There should be no benefit gained by cooking a larger cut sous vide. And, in fact, in some cases it is bad to do so because the larger cut is too large to come up to temperature within a safe timeframe.

See Harald McGee, On Food and Cooking, p.150:

Juices are squeezed out of the cut ends of muscle fibers, so a slab cut against the grain is prone to lose more juice than a thicker cut, also in SV cooking. Liquid loss in short time cooking is much less than in LTLT cooking. In a 48h/55^oC brisket I measured liquid loss of up to 20%, with dry aged brisket it was about 10%.

[torolover]

OK I'm still confused. There seems to be different opinions.

If I compare a sous vide 2 inch thick, 4 x 4 inch pork belly with a 1/2 inch thick 2 x 1 inch slice of pork belly. Shouldn't the big slab of pork belly keep more moisture then the small slice of pork belly?

On another note for reheating meat, isn't it always better to sous vide a slab of meat rather then small slices of meat?