People who blanket-veto seafood

[Hassouni]

So I grew up in the US, with an American father and an Iraqi-but-Westernized mother. Because of my international upbringing, I travelled a lot as a kid and still do, and I grew up eating and loving seafood of all kinds - currently I'd much rather eat fish than meat on any given day. A lot of my friends here, that grew up "more American" than I did, will NOT eat seafood - fish, bivalves, crustaceans, you name it. Sometimes canned tuna is OK, sometimes not. Even my dad, who likes fish, and most shellfish, won't go near squid, octopus, or scallops, is indifferent to mussels, and even though he likes fish, really dislikes fish with bones, whereas I feel bones are part of the experience.

One of my non-seafood eating American friends just got back from a year in Beirut, and while I was visiting family there some Lebanese friends and I took her out for an amazing seafood lunch with loads of fried whole fish caught fresh that morning, and pound after pound of grilled shrimp. We pressured her into eating some and lo and behold, she liked it! She said this was the first time she'd ever liked seafood, but with many of my other friends, no such luck.

The American supermarkets near me have pretty crummy fish departments, whereas when I lived in London, my neighborhood supermarket has a great selection (in the US I go to Super H mart for all my fishy needs). What is it with America/ns and fish? I'm sure I'm not the only person to encounter this, and it's not that the friends I've mentioned are necessarily picky eaters who only eat pasta and peanut butter - they love Lebanese food, Sichuanese ma la spice, etc.

[nolnacs]

I was one of those people until I was in college and I am still learning to enjoy all different types of seafood. For some reason canned tuna was acceptable to me, but all other fish was not. I at least partly blame it on fish sticks which I still believe to be one of the foulest commonly eaten foodstuffs in existence. I think the other part has to do with growing up in the midwest where there is not much really fresh seafood to be had other than catfish and for people closer to lakes, perch. Along with that there is an attendant lack of skill in preparing seafood which means when people do end up trying seafood, it is often not very good.

[Hassouni]

I'm inclined to agree about the bad preparation, but here on the east coast there shouldn't be an issue with availability

[scubadoo97]

I don't know. I've run across a few fish haters. One convert is my wife. When we met she would not touch fish. Bad fish stick episode or something from her childhood. Anyway I got her eating fish by poaching it which removes a lot of flavor. Now she will eat most any fish. She's a little more reserved on the shellfish but will eat some. My son will eat not fish except canned tuna. Go figure since canned tuna is fishier than the fresh fish we get here on the the Gulf of Mexico.

The list of foods people have problems with is mind boggling.

[IndyRob]

I think it's a familiarity thing. My hypothesis is that you develop a sense of 'normal' early on in your life. This is why we have fierce supporters of, say, New York Pizza vs. Chicago Pizza vs. Detroit Pizza, etc., etc..

In my case, I grew up in Detroit at a time when it wasn't generally wise to eat anything out of the lakes. Meanwhile, an uncle in the UP was fishing Lake Superior nearly every day of his life. It was there that I had my first experience eating truly fresh fish. So while I haven't had a lot of seafood, I'm definitely seafood curious (lobster, crab and shrimp are my favorites).

My wife, however, grew up in western Illinois. Other than the annual catfish fry, there wasn't much happening fish-wise. She now has a one shrimp per year rule. I think for people who grow up eating beef and pork and chicken, the texture of seafood just doesn't seem right.

That said, I think there's a huge seafood culture in America on the east, west, and gulf coasts, no?

Edited October 8, 2011 by IndyRob (log)

[annabelle]

I think a lot of people just don't like the taste of fish. My kids hate it and so does my mother. Fresh, frozen, breaded, baked, fried, you name it, they hate it. Then there is the husband who is allergic to shellfish.

[Hassouni]

The list of foods people have problems with is mind boggling.

This is certainly true, but fish seems to be at the top of the list.

I think it's a familiarity thing. My hypothesis is that you develop a sense of 'normal' early on in your life. This is why we have fierce supporters of, say, New York Pizza vs. Chicago Pizza vs. Detroit Pizza, etc., etc..

In my case, I grew up in Detroit at a time when it wasn't generally wise to eat anything out of the lakes. Meanwhile, an uncle in the UP was fishing Lake Superior nearly every day of his life. It was there that I had my first experience eating truly fresh fish. So while I haven't had a lot of seafood, I'm definitely seafood curious (lobster, crab and shrimp are my favorites).

My wife, however, grew up in western Illinois. Other than the annual catfish fry, there wasn't much happening fish-wise. She now has a one shrimp per year rule. I think for people who grow up eating beef and pork and chicken, the texture of seafood just doesn't seem right.

That said, I think there's a huge seafood culture in America on the east, west, and gulf coasts, no?

A couple points:

In my case, a lot of the food I love now I wasn't exposed to early on - Most East and Southeast Asian food besides sushi and Americanized Chinese food, Ethiopian food, etc. From my first bites of fuqi feipian (a Sichuanese hot & numbing beef tendon dish) or kimchi I was hooked.

As for there being a huge seafood culture on the East Coast, I don't know. Not in DC - the city hasn't been its own entity for long enough to develop a serious native culture. We have proximity to Baltimore, Annapolis, and the Chesapeake Bay, famous for crabs and rockfish (striped bass), but there are no traditions like clambakes, or fish fries, or anything like that. Going to a crab house is as close as it gets but that doesn't happen more than a few times a year, at maximum, for most people.

Pret a Manger in the UK has tuna, crayfish, and prawn sandwiches at a minimum, and probably smoked salmon too. When was the last time an American sandwich shop had anything besides tuna?

[Hassouni]

I think a lot of people just don't like the taste of fish. My kids hate it and so does my mother. Fresh, frozen, breaded, baked, fried, you name it, they hate it. Then there is the husband who is allergic to shellfish.

I've heard that defense a lot, but to me, mackerel tastes entirely different than salmon, which is entirely different from snapper, which is entirely different from cod, pollack, and other (in my opinion, slightly boring) whitefish, and so on. Hell, I say slightly boring because to me many whitefish have so LITTLE taste. To me it's like someone saying "I don't eat fruit." What fruit? apples? oranges? bananas? cherries? How can you make such a sweeping generalization?

[SylviaLovegren]

It's an interesting phenomenon. If you look at old US cookbooks or magazines, there was a fair amount of fish served. And in the 50s and 60s things like anchovies and sardines were very big as appetizers, cocktail food, etc. Boy, did that go away.

If you don't eat fish/seafood the smell and texture are very different than land animals. And the slightest bit of tiredness of the fish and the smell gets nasty fast.

I grew up in the Pac NW and was used to absolutely fresh right out of the water fish and shellfish -- often caught myself or by another family member. When I moved to L.A. I couldn't tolerate fish there because it tasted so old. Same thing with most of the fish I found in markets in NJ -- not fresh! Nasty! In Toronto, fish is so expensive we just don't bother mostly. So now I'm one of those Americans who mostly only eats canned tuna...

[SylviaLovegren]

Pret a Manger in the UK has tuna, crayfish, and prawn sandwiches at a minimum, and probably smoked salmon too. When was the last time an American sandwich shop had anything besides tuna?

I used to go to a diner in Culver City, CA, that had the BEST fried shrimp sandwiches. On homemade white bread with mayo and a lettuce leaf. Yum.

Ladies Luncheon places at old department stores in the U.S. all used to serve shrimp or crab salad. Those places are all gone now, sadly.

[pastrygirl]

I think a lot of people just don't like the taste of fish. My kids hate it and so does my mother. Fresh, frozen, breaded, baked, fried, you name it, they hate it. Then there is the husband who is allergic to shellfish.

I've heard that defense a lot, but to me, mackerel tastes entirely different than salmon, which is entirely different from snapper, which is entirely different from cod, pollack, and other (in my opinion, slightly boring) whitefish, and so on. Hell, I say slightly boring because to me many whitefish have so LITTLE taste. To me it's like someone saying "I don't eat fruit." What fruit? apples? oranges? bananas? cherries? How can you make such a sweeping generalization?

Exactly. There is such a huge variety of seafood, so many more than the land animals we eat, all with different flavors. I wonder which fish is "the taste of fish" that people don't like. Probably cod or pollack or whatever goes into fish sticks, or canned tuna?

I can understand people not liking the oilier fishes. Mackerel is not for everyone. I can understand people not liking fish they've had that's been poorly prepared. A lot of people don't like salmon because of the gumminess it gets when overcooked, yet these same people (I'm thinking of my mother) would not be willing to try it as sushi or meltingly medium-rare. Fish does seem to inspire a higher degree of squeamishness than other dead animals, maybe because they are on display with the head still on? But to lump all seafood into one flavor and texture category seems severely uninformed at best.

I grew up in Seattle, not eating much fish because Mom isn't crazy about it. We'd go out for fish & chips every now & then. If there was seafood at home it was Dungeness crab in season, or shrimp salad (with bay shrimp and vile, vile russian dressing), or a tuna sandwich. Now, I eat a variety, raw and cooked with my main concerns being sustainability and deliciousness. Salmon, scallops, halibut, trout, oysters, clams, shrimp... I've found sole to be a little too delicate (boring and mushy) for me, crab isn't really worth the work (except for softshell crab where there is no work), lobster isn't worth the money, mackerel can be good but better in small doses. Anchovies are magic and often mean I don't have to share my pizza

Edited October 8, 2011 by pastrygirl (log)

[ChrisTaylor]

My parents will eat 'fish'--as in the deep-fried stuff you buy from the takeaway fish and chip shop or maybe, just maybe, something pan-fried until rubbery and flavourless--but won't eat mussels and whatnot. My dad might have a go at some prawns sometimes, if they're there, but it's not something they'd cook. I guess it's no different to a blanket 'I don't eat offal' or 'I don't eat pork' (but aren't followers of any anti-pig religions).

With seafood, at least, I wonder if it's maybe the smell. I know that fresh seafood shouldn't have a 'fishy' smell but a lot of what's sold in supermarkets, dodgy fishmongers, etc does have a smell.

[pastrygirl]

With seafood, at least, I wonder if it's maybe the smell. I know that fresh seafood shouldn't have a 'fishy' smell but a lot of what's sold in supermarkets, dodgy fishmongers, etc does have a smell.

And the lingering scent of most cooked seafood is generally less desireable than the lingering scent of say, bacon or roast chicken. Who has ever heard anyone say Mmmm! Smells like sturgeon!

[Hassouni]

Not having had sturgeon, I couldn't tell you, but the smell of frying fish makes me happy. Once the eating is over though, yeah, it does smell bad but so does cooking a steak indoors, or stir frying chiles for the Sichuanese or Thai food I make

[nibor]

Here is my take on it: When seafood isn't totally fresh, it smells disgusting. Prior disgust can be easily re-triggered by the slightest old-fishy whiff. I can barely stand to walk past grocery seafood counters because of the smell, and I mean even at fancy upscale markets. It makes me nauseous.

It wasn't until I moved to the Pacific coast that I found I like fish. I buy it at a shack on the ocean. The ocean smells like fish, but not like spoiled fish.

[annabelle]

I think a lot of people just don't like the taste of fish. My kids hate it and so does my mother. Fresh, frozen, breaded, baked, fried, you name it, they hate it. Then there is the husband who is allergic to shellfish.

I've heard that defense a lot, but to me, mackerel tastes entirely different than salmon, which is entirely different from snapper, which is entirely different from cod, pollack, and other (in my opinion, slightly boring) whitefish, and so on. Hell, I say slightly boring because to me many whitefish have so LITTLE taste. To me it's like someone saying "I don't eat fruit." What fruit? apples? oranges? bananas? cherries? How can you make such a sweeping generalization?

People generalize all of the time. I even see it on this forum. I personally love fish, however, the quality that I can get here is terrible. We are not supposed to fish the lake that we live on because of the blue algae, so that leaves the elderly fillets at the market or the frozen fillets in the freezer section. My kids are equal opportunity haters of fish and won't eat canned tuna, either.

[Darienne]

I have always loved all kinds of fish, served all kind of way, in soups too. I even love canned salmon...red only. However, I hate canned tuna fish...always have...no doubt always will. I love the way my Mother cooked fish. Which I have tried once on DH, never to be even hinted at again.

DH eats fish but only if breaded or fried, or even better deep fried. At least one step removed from original fishiness. Hates fish soup.

Neither of us eats shellfish of any kind. We've both tried a variety of shellfish out of the home, but just don't like any of them. Also truthfully, they give me the willies. I don't know why.

It would probably make sense to try some shellfish again, knowing that it was cooked properly. I'm in no hurry.

[ChrisTaylor]

I guess the appearance of mussels doesn't help matters.

[nolnacs]

I'm inclined to agree about the bad preparation, but here on the east coast there shouldn't be an issue with availability

True enough, but how many of the people you know are actually from DC? I know a number of people who moved there after college. It is one of those cities that tends to collect people from around the country and those people may not have had that prior exposure to seafood. Of course, if they are native to DC, then I have no idea what their problem is.

[highchef]

I have, and still do, feed a lot of big teenage boys, and only once have I had a "I don't like seafood response from anyone of them...we're talking one of a few hundred. I still don't get that kid, he was born and raised here. But, and it's a huge but, if you can't get fresh fish in south louisiana, then God stopped making them!

I put crawfish in there too, cooked right, it's the best fun eating you'll ever had. Wish I had a list of people who we've introduced that "seafood" to. Enough beer, and I can get almost anyone to try them...then they will remember a crawfish boil for life! Throw some crabs in there and they'll be making trips back every year.....but Mardi GRAS might be another reason....they do coincide!

[Blether]

It's an uphill battle in a surrounding culture that isn't fish savvy - if you don't have the demand, you don't / can't have an effective distribution network, and for fish, fresh is everything.

Isn't German (still) the most common "ethnic" background of Americans ? Germany's another place with a big landlocked centre and a meat-centric diet.

I remember when "seafood poisoning at Mediterranean resort" was a popular news headline in the UK, before the cleaning up of sewage systems on (especially) the Italian and Spanish coasts. That influenced a generation of attitudes to shellfish.

Here in Japan, fresh meat is well-handled, but in low-volume imported stuff like fancy (& expensive) deli meats, you can get caught out spending a lot of money for something that turns out to be turning rancid.

As for mackerel - for me they lose nothing in deliciousness compared with other fish, when eaten fresh enough. Mackerel, however, loses its eating quality faster than most fish. In the autumn, when they're at their best, well fed & round with fat, just salted & grilled ? Superb.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Blether (log)

[Mjx]

I think for many, it's the smell. My boyfriend and I are temporarily staying with his parents, and since I bought some cockles recently, I had plans for something with a strong seafood component... then found out the damn things will have to just sit in the freezer, because his father loathes the smell of fish. However, in his case, the blanket veto excludes salmon.

[Snadra]

It's an uphill battle in a surrounding culture that isn't fish savvy - if you don't have the demand, you don't / can't have an effective distribution network, and for fish, fresh is everything.

Isn't German (still) the most common "ethnic" background of Americans ? Germany's another place with a big landlocked centre and a meat-centric diet.

.....

While I won't disagree about meat centric, I also have to say that I have noticed a real enjoyment of fresh and salt water fish and seafood on my trips to Germany (for example the time I watched my uncle accost a man carrying a smoked eel home and not let up until he had been led to the secret back gate of the backyard smoker and been sold an eel that had been promised to someone else).

I grew up in a landlocked part of Canada, where the only properly fresh fish was what you caught yourself in a river or lake. I was never fond of fish, and loathed crustacean-y and mollusc-y things. My brother, on the other hand, has always loved everything fishy. Now I enjoy fish when it's perfectly cooked by someone else, or in a crudo/sashimi preparation of some kind (the occasional raw oyster is pleasant too) but I rarely cook it myself, and I still cannot stand prawns - no matter how perfectly fresh and prepared they stick in my throat.

Which brings me to my current theory: some people are simply more sensitive to the taste than others, the way some people love cilantro and others find it tastes of soap. I actually find sashimi and crudo more enjoyable than cooked fish, and I know at least two people who cannot stand cooked fish, but happily eat it raw. We all find it milder and cleaner tasting raw than fresh, and we all find the texture of things like prawns to be a big part of our objection to them. Maybe all those blanket seafood banners out there just need to try it raw and avoid the shellfish!

[Blether]

While I won't disagree about meat centric, I also have to say that I have noticed a real enjoyment of fresh and salt water fish and seafood on my trips to Germany (for example the time I watched my uncle accost a man carrying a smoked eel home and not let up until he had been led to the secret back gate of the backyard smoker and been sold an eel that had been promised to someone else)...

Hey, Snadra. Good story. Of course like the US, Germany his its coast, and strong nautical and naval traditions. Would I guess right that your uncle isn't from Ulm or even Munchen ? Sorry to generalise while talking in general.

Have you ever tried prawns done as a pasta sauce alla Marcella ?

Of course you're right that there is a natural differences in taste from person to person. There again, the prevalence of seafood-aversion in landlocked areas cf coastal ones says it's not just that, doesn't it ? The "what you grow up with" element is a big one with all foods, I think.

For me, hunger is the ultimate test - how many fish-loathers with nothing else to eat for a week would refuse properly-prepared seafood ?

Edited October 9, 2011 by Blether (log)

[ChrisTaylor]

Maybe that's the solution to so many ills. All those people who dislike pork, all those vegans and vegetarians, those people who decide to exclude gluten and whatnot from their diet for no reason other than wanting to be a pain in the arse, we'll just gather them up, dump them on a desolate island somewhere for a week and then fly in and prepare sandwiches of trout cooked in jamon fat.