Breast Milk ice cream or other sweets

[Jaymes]

Is it just me or do others find this a little, oh, I don't know, weird?

Weirder than keeping a cow or goat in an artificial state of lactation and drinking that?

I don't have a personal relationship with cows or goats. Even if I kept said cow or goat in my back yard (which, in fact, my father, who was in the cattle business has done), it's not the same. I don't think human breast milk in and of itself is "yucky." I'm a grandmother. I nursed my three children. Right now, I'm living with my daughter and her husband and their three children, one of whom is a 2-mo-old. My daughter works full-time and I mind the babies. My daughter is breast-feeding, but since she's gone at work all day, she pumps milk at work, and puts it into the fridge each evening for me to feed the baby the next day. So we have a lot of it around - in the fridge and in the freezer. I handle it every single day. I don't have any "sexual" issues with my daughter, I can assure you. But I have no interest in how her milk tastes. I recall tasting my own back 30 years ago, just out of curiosity, but didn't feel the need to make ice cream out of it and serve it at a dinner party.

For those of you that don't think it's weird to want to do that, imagine that you're sitting at the dinner table of, say, your sister, or sister-in-law, "Caitlyn," and you're polishing off the last of the ice cream, which has a bit of an unusual taste you can't quite place, and your brother or brother-in-law says, "How did you like that ice cream? I made it this morning from Caitlyn's milk. We've been saving up, and she just expressed enough last night to make a nice supply of ice cream. Surprise!"

So now imagine looking across the table at sis, Caitlyn (and her breasts, of course, because you wouldn't be able to stop yourself), knowing you've just had some of her breast milk.

Not weird?

Edited September 16, 2011 by Jaymes (log)

[annabelle]

None taken. I misread what you meant.

[annabelle]

I agree, Jaymes. It's creepy and needlessly provocative.

Edited September 16, 2011 by annabelle (log)

[Jaymes]

I agree, Jaymes. It's creepy and needlessly provocative.

I think the "needlessly provocative" and weird and shocking and attention-getting thing is the ONLY reason why anyone would want to do it.

And, sitting across the table from your sister that, you've just been told, provided the milk for the ice cream, and staring at her breasts while you "digested" that thought, would undoubtedly be an image that you never would be able to completely get out of your mind.

You'd never be able to look at her the same way again.

Or think of her, without remembering the taste of her breast milk in your mouth.

But no, not weird at all.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Jaymes (log)

[Shelby]

I can't get the movie "Meet The Parents" out of my mind. You know, the part where Greg describes milking the cat?

[Jaymes]

I can't get the movie "Meet The Parents" out of my mind. You know, the part where Greg describes milking the cat?

Good idea. Ice cream out of cat's milk. Maybe that's where these people should start.

[Jaymes]

I’ve been thinking about this and trying to define exactly what it is that I find so off-putting. I think it’s the level of unwanted intimacy. Breast-feeding a child is among the most intimate acts a human being can undertake. That level of intimacy is natural and normal between mother and child. It’s even crucial, according to most experts in the field, for human babies to develop the ability to form healthy, loving and close bonds with other humans. I personally find that level of intimacy to be something I’m not interested in with other humans. Yes, when I was breast-feeding my own children, had my husband expressed an interest in giving it a go for some reason, I probably would have indulged him. But I would have hoped that it wouldn’t turn into a habit. Not because I would have been squeamish about it (I wouldn’t), but because I would have felt ridiculous sitting there suckling a grown man and considering the possibility that perhaps my mother had been right, and I should have married someone more mature.

This discomfit with this level of unwanted intimacy only extends to humans. And not just with humans that I already know. In fact, that has nothing to do with it.

As I said above, for many years, my father was in the cattle business and lived in the country. Most everyone had livestock. If I had been invited to the home of a neighboring farmer for dinner and remarked upon how delicious was the ice cream, I would have felt far more comfortable had the farmer said, “Yeah, this morning I milked the cow” than had he said, “Yeah, this morning I milked the wife.”

Even if I knew the cow well.

But had just met the wife.

[highchef]

Besides according to "On Food and Cooking," from a milk fat angle, the best female for the job is a minke whale. How does one milk a whale, anyway? (I'm lookin' at YOU, Harold McGee.)

Same way you eat a whale; one bit at a time.

Sounds udderly ridiculous.

Now you're just milking thiis

I think you should first say "please?"

[Jaymes]

I can see how the owner/chef of a struggling restaurant in a competitive market (like New York) could decide that, instead of relying on the things that usually ensure success (excellent food, service, etc.), what he needs is a controversial and attention-getting promotional stunt, like serving ice cream, cheese, etc., made from his wife's breast milk. Not only would it get everyone talking about the restaurant, it even might bring in paying customers - curiosity seekers, voyeurs interested in knowing what his wife's breast milk tastes like, and so forth.

But then you'd run into quality control issues.

Commercial food producers rely on consistent ingredients to ensure consistent results. And everyone knows that the diet of a lactating female affects the fat content, flavor, etc., of the milk.

So then what...?

"Honey, I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but the last batch of your milk just wasn't as good as before. Would you mind if tonight I put a half-stick of butter into your mashed potatoes? And a couple handfuls of clover into your salad?"

[eternal]

I can't imagine you can get HIV from breat milk. Even if it is in breast milk (which I don't think it is) it needs to get into the blood. Just getting on your skin on ingesting it wouldn't be enough. Also, I would imagine homogenizing or cooking the milk would kill anything bad.

[annabelle]

You most definately can get HIV from breast milk. Blood, semen, breast milk, vaginal fluids and saliva can all carry HIV.

[Kouign Aman]

HIV is a tender beast. Cooking to 60C for 1 min kills>90%, so preparing a custard for the icecream could be validated to temp range and time and show >6log reduction.

Freezing has its own impact, so there again, could become a validated process.

Still, seems silly. Unlikely to be enough moms with enough extra to make a commercial product.

I wouldnt be worried about HIV from a family member. I would either know they have it, or know they dont.

Be interested to find out if the hypothetical product is made w human milk, or if its human-milk flavored.

Edited September 20, 2011 by heidih
Delete admin comment with member permission (log)

[Kouign Aman]

Well heckfire, some folks do have enough to spare.Freezer full of human milk - enough to feed adult

[RichardJones]

Well I am extremely surprised and disappointed by this thread.

I'm surprised that in a forum of food lovers - who I would have thought the people most likely to be open to novel food experiences - that there has been an almost universally negative reaction.

But I am more disappointed that those who have reacted negatively have left such insulting replies. I didn't make my post to be described as weird, strange and to be preached to by pompous posters about ethics and how I should or should not be using a quantity of milk which has been offered to me.

How rude these people are. How breathtaking that in an international forum, people would be so quick to condemn an idea that sits outside their own culture - especially with so little information on which to base their judgement. To slam the idea with both hands and then say 'but I respect the OP' is a meaningless gesture.

And how amazing that despite the number of people prepared to post that it is 'weird' or otherwise inappropriate, not a single person has responded to the actual question I posed about thickening agents for ice-cream. I would have thought that would be easy for eGulleteers.

I am extremely grateful indeed to those who have offered information to help me along my way. I'm afraid, though, that I'll be thinking twice before I contribute to this forum again.

==================================================

Just to respond to a few of the points made.

Breast milk is the only foodstuff which we can say - whether you believe in its natural evolution or piecemeal creation - is actually intended for human consumption. The fact that it is considered a baby foodstuff really doesn't put me off.

I like to imagine, as Adam, Wright and Lohr (1996) showed, perhaps those who most claim to be against a certain behaviour are actually the ones who most want to do it.

Regarding the bizarre descent into posts about HIV, I wonder if annabelle has any medical authority to be offering advice on this thread? It's far too sensitive a topic for random people to be sounding off. Here is the verbatim advice of an actual medical doctor: "Small quantities of breast milk are not considered a risk for HIV transmission in adults."

Of course that is open to some interpretation which is why I wouldn't seek advice like that on a cooking forum. I appreciate the implication, though, that a close member of my family may be hiding HIV from me - and trying to infect me.

Regarding high-handed comments like the following:

You do not take milk away from a baby to play around in the kitchen. Rarely is there a surplus of significant quantity.

Who do you think you are to tell me that? And where do you get your information from? The body generally produces as much milk as is needed. If you pump milk to freeze - or make ice-cream - the body just produces more. That's how milk banks are possible isn't it? Besides, how much milk do people think one needs to make 500ml of ice-cream!

I presume that people would rather I didn't post my results.

Edited September 21, 2011 by RichardJones (log)

[annabelle]

Yes, annabelle does have scientific information about HIV since she is a clinical laboratory technician. If you want to take your information from wikipedia or other pedestrian sources, go right ahead. And there is no need for you to ask a question of this board and then turn around and lecture others when their responses are not to your liking. If you have read thouroughly, I never said that your family member has HIV.

Many women on this board have breastfed their children, myself included, and have merely stated our opinions that it is out of bounds to consider using breast milk for novelty purposes. No one is stopping you from doing so. As for milk banks, they are for at risk infants and not adults who are seeking a new flavor experience.

[rarerollingobject]

Well I am extremely surprised and disappointed by this thread.

I'm surprised that in a forum of food lovers - who I would have thought the people most likely to be open to novel food experiences - that there has been an almost universally negative reaction.

But I am more disappointed that those who have reacted negatively have left such insulting replies. I didn't make my post to be described as weird, strange and to be preached to by pompous posters about ethics and how I should or should not be using a quantity of milk which has been offered to me.

Oh dry your eyes..it's an online forum, FFS, what did you expect? People are always going to have opinions, wildly varying, and not always positive, constructive or exactly commensurate with YOUR world view. It's not an advice column; don't participate if you aren't ready to be disagreed with and field a volley of opinions that will, guaranteed, sit anywhere along the scale of irrational to instructive.

And anyway, if you really couldn't foresee the potential sensitivities/negative reaction to the idea of faffing around in the kitchen and eating breast milk (particularly among women, many of whom find breastfeeding very difficult and an intensely emotionally and physically exhausting, and in some cases distressing, experience of early motherhood), then..yeah.

In short, stop clutching your pearls, build a bridge and get over it.

And by all means post your damn results. Some people will be interested, some people will be repulsed, and that's all as it should be.

Edited September 21, 2011 by rarerollingobject (log)

[Mjx]

Well I am extremely surprised and disappointed by this thread.

I'm surprised that in a forum of food lovers - who I would have thought the people most likely to be open to novel food experiences - that there has been an almost universally negative reaction.

But I am more disappointed that those who have reacted negatively have left such insulting replies. I didn't make my post to be described as weird, strange and to be preached to by pompous posters about ethics and how I should or should not be using a quantity of milk which has been offered to me.

How rude these people are. How breathtaking that in an international forum, people would be so quick to condemn an idea that sits outside their own culture - especially with so little information on which to base their judgement. To slam the idea with both hands and then say 'but I respect the OP' is a meaningless gesture.

And how amazing that despite the number of people prepared to post that it is 'weird' or otherwise inappropriate, not a single person has responded to the actual question I posed about thickening agents for ice-cream. I would have thought that would be easy for eGulleteers.

I am extremely grateful indeed to those who have offered information to help me along my way. I'm afraid, though, that I'll be thinking twice before I contribute to this forum again.

. . . .

Who do you think you are to tell me that? And where do you get your information from? The body generally produces as much milk as is needed. If you pump milk to freeze - or make ice-cream - the body just produces more. That's how milk banks are possible isn't it? Besides, how much milk do people think one needs to make 500ml of ice-cream!

I presume that people would rather I didn't post my results.

You asked for information and got opinions, which is pretty much the usual thing, when any potentially controversial ingredient is discussed (might have made your life easier, if you'd simply asked about making ice cream from milk with a low solids content). Your relative may be the image of health, and have a surplus of milk that she is happy to donate to your culinary explorations, but human milk has very charged associations for most, and it isn't the kind of thing that is likely to be regarded with detachment; it really isn't that surprising that people responded in ways that mostly reflected their discomfort with the topic.

But you just can't let yourself take this so personally... and why not post the results?

[Country]

What RRO said.

[Jaymes]

What RRO said.

Me, too. What RRO said.

And honestly, if you find this fairly innocuous thread too hot to handle, you're better off to not risk exposing yourself further to the wide range of experiences, opinions, etc., routinely expressed on eG (and most online forums, for that matter).

You seem to be suggesting that unless everyone agrees with you and cheers you on, we should just shut up.

That ain't gonna happen.

[AAQuesada]

I wasn't going to post on this topic because it holds little interest to me be it prurient or food-wise. But because of some of the extremely judgmental posts on this thread I thought I'd try and post something actually useful. Try simply thickening boob milk with cornstarch you can google this technique it seems to be a popular alternative to custard based ice creams. I would think the hard part is going to be judging fat content in the milk which is key to good mouth feel in ice cream.

Good night and good luck.

[eternal]

You most definately can get HIV from breast milk. Blood, semen, breast milk, vaginal fluids and saliva can all carry HIV.

So do HIV positive moms not breast feed their children? I didn't realize that was the case (but I didn't do any research). Either way, I think transferring of the virus via breast milk into custard cooked and ingested by another person would have to be damn close to zero if not zero.

It is funny this topic came up because I know a new mom and she was wondering what to do with the leftover milk and drinking it crossed her mind. Not everybody thinks it is taboo.

[Jaymes]

It is funny this topic came up because I know a new mom and she was wondering what to do with the leftover milk and drinking it crossed her mind.

Many nursing moms are determined that their babies never drink formula. Breast milk freezes well. If you freeze any extra, you can have it on hand so that when Mom's not around, the babysitter/daddy/granny can feed the baby.

[annabelle]

So do HIV positive moms not breast feed their children? I didn't realize that was the case (but I didn't do any research). Either way, I think transferring of the virus via breast milk into custard cooked and ingested by another person would have to be damn close to zero if not zero.

It is funny this topic came up because I know a new mom and she was wondering what to do with the leftover milk and drinking it crossed her mind. Not everybody thinks it is taboo.

HIV positive moms are discouraged from breastfeeding their infants. It is not only the virus that is of concern, it is the drugs that are used to treat the virus. This is an area that is under research at the moment, but there is an issue of the child developing a resistance to the drugs used to treat HIV if they are ingested in the mother's breast milk.

As to your friend, what Jaymes said. Tell her to freeze it, save it and have someone else bottle feed it to baby. That way she will actually be able to get out to get her hair cut or shop without dad calling her every two minutes about the screaming, starving baby. This doesn't always work, though. My youngest wanted the real thing and had lungs of steel. He's rather scream himself sick than take a bottle.

[Kouign Aman]

Re thickening - Darienne likes a cornstarch method for her bovine icecreams.

Re cream % - its not homogenized. Leave it to chill a bit and the cream floats to the top.

In fact, you can line up a day's production and assign them chronological order based on the thickness of the cream layer. So, you can pretty well customize to desired % fat, tho you probably wont match guernsey output.

I used to work on a process trying to extract specific membrane molecules for use in diagnostic testing. Didnt pan out because not a consistent source, so not a consistent yield.

Re 'left over' - some moms are super producers, and make more than the kid can drink, directly or thru a bottle. Some moms will offer the extra to the community, some wont. Qualifying for banking is not a slam dunk. Many cant or wont bother. What a mom who has excess chooses to do with it is her business, not ours.

She wants to let a close family member make cheese, icecream, or try for a whipped topping? Her call.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Kouign Aman (log)