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jaymer

Still looking for sous vide eggs with whites set. My tests with pics

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I've read most of the SV material available. Even Kyhmos' post references Balwins pics, and they are two years old. Not much in the way of recent info [that I have found] for the perfect SV egg.

I wasn't against the 62.2 egg from Balwin, and I'd like to use those in my restaurant, but the runny white is kinda a putoff - and yes, I've seen the 4 stages of protein temps.

Since I'm cooking a bunch of other stuff at 60C, I thought I'd try to SV eggs at that "standard" temp in my shop, and then boil them to see if I could get some outside heat into them to help set the white.

Here's my results with 5 eggs each boiled at 100C for a period of time after the 90 minute 60C water bath.

eggs.jpg

There was about 45 seconds after removal from the bath until the eggs went into the 100C water. Each egg was about 30 sec intervals.

1st pic (upper left) is the closest to just doing a 62.2 egg to begin with. The main thing I noticed was when opened, there was a thin layer of egg white still stuck inside the shell. It all came off uniformly, so its hard to notice - you can actually see a shiny surface inside the shell, which is the white glistening.

I was happy with the first egg and looking forward to the next ones, until the egg shell started sticking - something I had NEVER experienced doing 62.6 eggs. After the 3rd egg and seeing a set yellow, I was bummed and you can see the 4th and 5th eggs couldn't even have the shells removed properly to be anywhere close to presentable.

In summary, I added my tests to see if a better egg could be made to solve the runny white issue, but to no avail. For now, I'll have to continue to crack open on a side plate and then move to the final presentation to get that yucky ovomucoid off the plate.

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If you can consistently get the 62.2 eggs from their shells, perhaps try something more like poaching for the second stage of cooking. Since the white is already somewhat set, I imagine it would hold its shape more than a standard poached egg.

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Pedro, I have tried that. Its a real pain, measuring crap every time. And then you have to eat them right away since they keep cooking - kinda tough in a commercial setting, don't you think? Would be easier to cook on a flattop grill.

David, you mean remove them from the egg and dump them into boiling water, right? I'm not sure what that'll buy me if the more liquid white just runs away. I'm not worried about the white that is already set. I have no experience in poaching eggs.

These were NOT fresh eggs.

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For now, I'll have to continue to crack open on a side plate and then move to the final presentation to get that yucky ovomucoid off the plate.

Can't help you about other cooking methods, but I can tell you how the chef dealt with these eggs during service in a restaurant where I worked. He immersed the egg in water, craked the shell while immersed in water, and used a drilled spoon

http://www.rgmania.com/media/images/superproductimage-picture-cucchiaio-forato-piccolo-lucido-2267_wm_w1_o100_gs0_r0_p-443x-274_s4.jpg

to collect the egg and place it on the plate.

Teo


Teo

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Pedro, I have tried that. Its a real pain, measuring crap every time. And then you have to eat them right away since they keep cooking - kinda tough in a commercial setting, don't you think? Would be easier to cook on a flattop grill.

....

You might precook many eggs at 75°C for the required time, then either transfer to your 60°C bath until served, or chill for later use and reheat in the 60°C bath.


Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

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Can't contribute much to your discussion of setting the egg white but I can help you to get the eggs out easier.

I use one of these egg openers to produce a "lid" on the wider end of the shell that can be easily removed. Once this is done, the cooked sous vide egg slides easily out of the shell.


Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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...

Since I'm cooking a bunch of other stuff at 60C, I thought I'd try to SV eggs at that "standard" temp in my shop, and then boil them to see if I could get some outside heat into them to help set the white.

Here's my results with 5 eggs each boiled at 100C for a period of time after the 90 minute 60C water bath.

...

There was about 45 seconds after removal from the bath until the eggs went into the 100C water. Each egg was about 30 sec intervals.

...

Pedro, I have tried that. Its a real pain, measuring crap every time. And then you have to eat them right away since they keep cooking - kinda tough in a commercial setting, don't you think? Would be easier to cook on a flattop grill.

....

You might precook many eggs at 75°C for the required time, then either transfer to your 60°C bath until served, or chill for later use and reheat in the 60°C bath.

As a pre-production exercise, I'm not sure why one would wish to go directly from the sv bath to the 'boiling'.

An intermediate hold would seem best suited to production - as with standard poached eggs.

Also, having already 'pre-cooked' the yolk to 60C, I'd expect that chilling the egg would help limit additional yolk-cooking on reheating/white-setting.


"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

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DOUGAL

As a pre-production exercise, I'm not sure why one would wish to go directly from the sv bath to the 'boiling'.

Well, we go directly from SV to plate [or SV to torch, then plate] so it seemed a logical test to try to inject some "setting" heat on the outside and see if it helped.

I just wanted to publish my findings while I had a camera and verifiable results.

I'm not a fan of the 75C/measuring method - so in a sense I was already in a intermediate hold at 60C.

I have to say though, one thing not tried is chilling them. Will have to do that and see if a reheat will work - I have no idea how long that will take but won't I be back to the same issue as initial cooking? That is, I have to warm up the yolk so its not ice cold and I don't want it to set, so If I'm in hotter water than my preferred yolk (62.2C per Baldwin) I still have to rely on formulas of time/circum/temp. Given a pasteurized egg pre-cooked, I wonder how long it takes to get back to 62.2C in a 62.2C bath?

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If you are worried about serving eggs with cool (although ideally cooked through) yolks, then it does make sense to do it Pedro's way round -- cook the whites first (and arrest before the yolk cooks), then heat the whole thing through to yolk-cooking temperature, and hold before service.

If you chill the whole raw egg, you should be able to maximise the cooking of the white while leaving the yolk 'raw' -- which is what you normally try to avoid by specifying room temp eggs for boiling.

It would be ideal to leave as much as possible of the yolk 'raw' because you are going to cook it in stage 2, at 62.5 or whatever you choose.

In stage 1, the thing is to get the white cooked WITHOUT (over) cooking the yolk. But unlike trad 'boiling', you are not trying to 'perfectly' cook the yolk - you actually want to under-cook it. Hence starting from cold should help.


"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

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I'm exploring the concept of a modernist "tortilla de patata" aka "Spanish omelette" and I plan to SV the eggs (well mixed) to attain a honey-like viscosity.

Has anybody played with SV egg custards?

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Is the traditional egg shape a must? I've long been thinking about (in a slightly different application) separating the whites and yolks and cooking them separately, then reconstructing the components.

This would require a custom tray mold to SV the whites into some sort of cup form and cooking the yolks separately. Then you just unmold the molded white, fill with cooked yolk, garnish, and serve.

Besides being able come up whimsical shapes (An egg cube? An egg white shot class filled with yolk?), you could individually season the components and completely sidestep the difficult issues involved with managing the temps of two different components in one package.

An egg's shape may be very classical, but is it the most practical shape for plating? I'd think that a flat bottom alone could be a huge plus.

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Is the traditional egg shape a must? I've long been thinking about (in a slightly different application) separating the whites and yolks and cooking them separately, then reconstructing the components.

This would require a custom tray mold to SV the whites into some sort of cup form and cooking the yolks separately. Then you just unmold the molded white, fill with cooked yolk, garnish, and serve.

Besides being able come up whimsical shapes (An egg cube? An egg white shot class filled with yolk?), you could individually season the components and completely sidestep the difficult issues involved with managing the temps of two different components in one package.

An egg's shape may be very classical, but is it the most practical shape for plating? I'd think that a flat bottom alone could be a huge plus.

Very funny, but this would really be an awful lot of trouble. Cooking in-shell eggs in a 75oC water bath for about a quarter of an hour is fast and simple and straightforward.


Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

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Timings for cooking soft eggs courtesy of Neil Perry's "Rockpool Bar and Grill"

First cook eggs for two hours sous vide at 60C.

At this stage, I chilled eggs in cold water and placed in refrigerator overnight.

Rewarm to 60C in sous vide cooker.

Then removed top of egg with this device:

egg topper.jpg

Then tip into ramekin:

soft egg in container.jpg

At this stage, and what I did, was gently slide the egg onto a strainer scoop (see cooked egg picture below) this leaves behind some of the fragmented cooked albumen and makes for a neater cooked egg.

Then slide egg into barely simmering water.

egg in barely simmering water.jpg

Leave it in there for a very brief time (think it was around a minute, maybe less, I did it by eye rather than time).

Remove egg:

cooked egg.jpg

Add to toast. Cut.

cut egg.jpg

I'm sure the process can be used effectively in a commercial kitchen Jaymer. Look forward to hearing how it turns out.


Edited by nickrey (log)

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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...An egg white shot class filled with yolk?...

I, for one, think this is an absolutely brilliant idea and it must be pursued!


PastaMeshugana

"The roar of the greasepaint, the smell of the crowd."

"What's hunger got to do with anything?" - My Father

My eG Food Blog (2011)

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Cooked the second of the pre-cooked eggs today. This time, I didn't bother bringing back up to temperature. Just removed egg from shell, took away excess albumin then placed the egg directly in the simmering water. Same result, hot enough to eat, one less step.

Should also point out that the temp and time means that these babies are pasteurised. Moreover the egg yolk, while liquid, is not as runny as that of a "normal" poached egg: On the shot above the yolk didn't leak any more than what is shown.


Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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...An egg white shot class filled with yolk?...

I, for one, think this is an absolutely brilliant idea and it must be pursued!

These would make it fairly trivial, no?

Uh oh, I think I've stumbled across a foolish new obsession.

Thanks...


PastaMeshugana

"The roar of the greasepaint, the smell of the crowd."

"What's hunger got to do with anything?" - My Father

My eG Food Blog (2011)

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Pedro, I have tried that. Its a real pain, measuring crap every time.

. . .

Maybe this would make measuring easier and faster:

PedroGs Egg cooking ruler_1200px.jpg

Download here:

http://egullet.org/p1840397

(Any suggestions for improvement?)

Another possibility to measure egg diameter using calipers (instead of "circumference measuring crap") was described over at Sous Vide Dash.

Adding diameters to Douglas Baldwin's EggHeatingTable would be easy if desired.


Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

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In-Shell Egg Heating Times in a 75°C Water Bath Using Circumference or Diameter

Douglas Baldwin made me a nice birthday present, he recalculated the EggHeatingTime table using diameter instead of circumference, with an increment of 1mm diameter instead of 5mm circumference, and restricting the range to chicken eggs, as extrapolating his experimental results from chicken eggs to quail eggs or goose eggs may eventually not be adequate, taking into account that protein composition and geometry might be different. Using calipers to measure diameter instead of measuring circumference might facilitate “measuring crap”.

Measuring egg diameter with calipers.jpg

So here is Douglas’ new table for download:

In-Shell Egg Heating Times in a 75°C Water Bath Using Circumference or Diameter.pdf


Edited by PedroG (log)

Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

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      Broccoli stems after cooking
      The crisp bread element is fabricated via the use of an industrial deli slicer. Chef Grant then brushes the sectioned pieces of poached broccoli stem with eggwash, affixes them to the thin planks of brioche and places them in a fry pan with butter.

      Grant's mise...not your ordinary cutting board

      Poached Broccoli Stem and Crisp Bread cooking

      Ready for plating

      A bright green broccoli puree is made with a vita-prep blender. Here, Chef Grant "mohawks" it onto china given to him by Thomas Keller

      Smoked Coho roe has arrived via Fed-Ex, courtesy of Steve Stallard

      Chef Grant devises a plating scheme for the Poached Broccoli Stem while Curtis looks on

      Chef Grant ponders one potential plating of the dish. He called this incarnation 'predictable' and started over.

      Another plating idea. This version is garnished with broccoli petals and ultra-thin slices of connected grapefruit pulp cells. The yellow petals are stand-ins for what will ultimately be broccoli blossoms
      Grant is still displeased at the dish's appearance. "The dish tastes as I envisioned it....texturally complex, with the crispness of the bread, the soft elements of the floret puree and stem, and the pop of the eggs. The buttery richness from the bread gives the stem the flavor of the melted cabbage I loved at the [French] Laundry. And the hot and cold contrasts from the roe and broccoli …I like it…..I just don’t like the way it looks.” Another attempt and the group agrees, it is better but not “the one.” The use of the thinly sliced cross sections of peeled grapefruit energizes the group. In the next rendition, they make small packets with the ultra thinly-sliced grapefruit containing the roe...

      A third plating configuration for Poached Broccoli Stems; this one featuring the packets of roe wrapped in ultra thin sheets of grapefruit pulp cells
      At this point the team decides to move on and come back to it next week. After some conversation they decide that in the final dish, broccoli will appear in at least 5 forms: poached stems, floret puree, some raw form of the stem, the tiny individual sprouts of broccoli florets, and the blooms. Grant feels that Poached Broccoli Stem could be ready for service, although he still envisions some changes for the dish that will make it even more emblematic of his personal style. “Our dishes continue to evolve after they hit the menu. It is important for us to get to know them better before we can clearly see their weaknesses.”
      The thought for the dried crème brulee originated over a year ago when a regular customer jokingly asked for a crème brulee for dessert. “He said it as joke, I took it as a challenge,” says Grant. "Of course, we never intended to give him a regular crème brulee.” The team tried various techniques to create the powder-filled caramel bubble while at Trio to no avail. An acceptable filling for the Dried Crème Brulee has been developed by the Chef and his team but several different methods, attempted today, to create the orb from caramelized sugar have been less than 100% successful.

      Caramel blob awaiting formation. Chef Curtis kept this pliable by leaving it in a low oven throughout the day

      Chef Grant’s initial idea to use a metal bubble ring and heat gun (normally used for stripping paint) to form the bubbles does not work as hoped. Attempts to fashion them by hand also come up short.
      Says Grant, “At Trio we tried a hair-dryer. When Martin told me about these heat guns which get up to 900 degrees F, I thought we had it for sure. If it was easy everyone would do it I guess.” Eventually, Alinea partner Nick Kokonas garners the task’s best result by positioning a small, warm blob of sugar onto the end of a drinking straw and blowing into the other end. The results are promising. Curtis suggests using a sugar pump to inflate the orbs. That adjustment will be attempted on another day.
      “We intentionally position whimsical bite in the amuse slot, it tends to break the ice and make people laugh. It is a deliberate attempt to craft the experience by positioning the courses in a very pre-meditated order. A great deal of thought goes into the order of the courses, a misalignment may really take away from the meal as a whole.” For PB&J, the grapes are peeled while still on the vine and then dipped into unsweetened peanut butter. They are allowed to set–up, and then they are wrapped with a thin sheet of bread and lightly toasted. When the peeled grapes warm, they become so soft they mimic jelly. The composition is strangely unfamiliar in appearance but instantly reminiscent on the palate. PB&J is, according to Grant, virtually ready for service. There are a couple of aesthetic elements, which need minor tweaks but the Chef feels very good about today’s prototype.

      Chef John peels grapes while still on their stems

      Peeled grapes on their stems with peanut butter coating

      Chef Grant studies the completed PB&J in the Crucial Detail designed piece

      PB&J
      Often, creative impulses come by way of Alinea’s special purveyors. “Terra Spice’s support over the past couple of years has been unprecedented, and it has accelerated with the start of the food lab,” says Grant. “It is great to have relationships with people that think like we do, it can make the creative process so much easier. Often Phil, our contact at Terra, would come into the kitchen at Trio and encourage us to try and stump him on obscure ingredients. We always lost, but not from lack of trying. He even brought in two live chufa plants into the kitchen one day.” The relationship has developed and Terra team has really made an effort to not only search out products that the chefs ask for but also keep an eye out for new ingredients and innovations. In August, Phil brought by some samples of products that he thought the Alinea team might be interested in trying.

      Phil of Terra Spice showing the team some samples

      Coconut powder and other samples
      Grant recalls “the most surprising item to me was the dried coconut powder. When I put a spoonful in my mouth I could not believe the intense flavor and instant creamy texture, it was awesome.” That was the inspiration for what is now Instant Tropical Pudding. The guest is presented with a glass filled with dried ingredients. A member of the service team pours a measured amount of coconut water into the glass and instructs the guest to stir the pudding until a creamy consistency is formed.

      The rum-spiked coconut water being added to the powders
      At the end of the day, the Chefs assess their overall effort as having gone “fairly well.” It’s a mixed bag of results. Clearly, the fact that things have not gone perfectly on Day 1 has not dampened anyone’s spirits. The team has purposely attempted dishes of varying degrees of difficultly in order to maximize their productivity. Says Grant, “Making a bubble of caramel filled with powder…I have devoted the better part of fifteen years to this craft, I have trained with the best chefs alive. I have a good grasp of known technique. The lab's purpose is to create technique based on our vision. Sometimes we will succeed, and sometimes we will fail, but trying is what make us who we are." The team's measured evaluations of their day’s work reflect that philosophy.
      According to Chef Grant, “The purpose of the lab is to create the un-creatable. I know the level at which we can cook. I know the level of technique we already possess. What I am interested in is what we don't know...making a daydream reality.” With little more than 100 days on the calendar between now and Alinea’s opening, the Chef and his team will have their work cut out for them.
      =R=
      A special thanks to eGullet member yellow truffle, who contributed greatly to this piece
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