Hershey's exploits cultural exchange students...

[ScoopKW]

I've spent the afternoon reading up on this. The more I read, the more disgusted I become.

Here's a link to get started:

http://www.guestworkeralliance.org/2011/08/feds-probe-hersheys-foreign-worker-treatment-reuters-82511/

The upshot as I understand it is, Hershey -- through subsidiaries -- enticed foreign students to pay from $3000-$6000 to obtain student "work/study" J-1 visas for a "cultural work exchange program." And then put them to work, graveyard shift, at a warehouse. After mandatory rent was deducted from their pay, the kids earned $100-150 for a 40-hour week. So, after their three-month labor contract is done, they've earned $1,800 (or less) to offset the $3,000-6,000 they paid for the visa.

I keep looking for some sort of "other-shoe" story that shows this wasn't some sort of Dickensian bait-and-switch, but I haven't found anything.

The first thing I did was go to snopes.com to see if this was some sort of urban legend. No dice.

Hey, Pennsylvanians, what's really going on?

EDIT -- Here's a quote from the Wilkes-Barre Times Leader:

The students paid $3,000 to $6,000 to participate in the J-1 visa program and worked for $7.85 to $8.30 an hour, according to The Associated Press. Rent, transportation fees and even the cost of their own timecards were deducted from their checks, leaving them with little money.

Roman Suzhou, 21, from Ukraine, said the students worked 12-hour days packing large boxes of candy.

“If we were not moving fast enough, they would say ‘go faster or be deported,’ ” he said. “We had enough spare time to sleep.”

Edited September 3, 2011 by ScoopKW (log)

[TheTInCook]

Sorry?

They should be entitled to free rent, board, utilities, and transportation?

[ScoopKW]

Sorry?

They should be entitled to free rent, board, utilities, and transportation?

Have you ever worked a job where the cost of your timecard was deducted from your pay?

This reminds me of the stories of the company towns, with company housing and company food where everything is deducted. Cue up the Tennessee Ernie Ford song:

"You load the 16 tons (of chocolate bars), what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. St. Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store."

But don't get me wrong -- I'd like to hear the other side to this story.

[Broken English]

A sweatshop on American soil, makes me wonder how they get away with it.

[TheTInCook]

Sorry?

They should be entitled to free rent, board, utilities, and transportation?

Have you ever worked a job where the cost of your timecard was deducted from your pay?

This reminds me of the stories of the company towns, with company housing and company food where everything is deducted. Cue up the Tennessee Ernie Ford song:

"You load the 16 tons (of chocolate bars), what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. St. Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store."

But don't get me wrong -- I'd like to hear the other side to this story.

I've worked jobs where I've had to pay for stuff like uniforms, training, and tools, sometimes by paycheck deduction. Just recently, I had to drop 500 for a software license for work.

Seriously though, run the numbers:

They averaged about $8/hr, grossing $320 for their 40hr work week. Only spending ~62% of your paycheck on living expenses (rent etc) at that income level isn't doing too bad.

Looking at the stated and implied complaints, we see:

1) Not getting paid enough.

They are getting paid above min wage to stack and pack candy bars. It's literally a no skill job.

2) They are working too many hours (12!).

It takes a lot of chutzpah to complain that they have too much work in today's economy. It's especially galling given they are displacing American citizens. Having worked similar hours many times, I don't have much sympathy for those who whine about it.

3) They haven't gotten to do enough sightseeing and cultural immersion activities.

Whatever, I haven't had a vacation in over 3 years, much less international travel.

[ScoopKW]

1) You didn't pay $6,000 for the "right" to work for three months.

2) Nobody told them it was a graveyard shift at a warehouse. They were led to believe it would be a fun job at Hersheyland.

3) To a man (and woman) they insist that this work should be done by Americans -- with decent pay and benefits.

4) They PAID for a cultural learning experience. How is a sweatshop a learning experience? Other than "school of hard knocks."

Given our standing worldwide, it doesn't make much sense to me to exploit foreign kids and send them back to their homes hating this country. And if it's happening at Hersheys, where else is it happening?

[TheTInCook]

1) You didn't pay $6,000 for the "right" to work for three months.

I expect that the National Guestworker's Alliance is playing fast and loose with the figures. I would incur similar costs if I wanted to work abroad in a foreign country.

2) Nobody told them it was a graveyard shift at a warehouse. They were led to believe it would be a fun job at Hersheyland.

So, Hershey and the Council for Educational Travel USA are the bad guys because a bunch of university students can't figure out that Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is a work of fantasy?

3) To a man (and woman) they insist that this work should be done by Americans -- with decent pay and benefits.

And yet, there they are, taking the jobs they insist belong to another. They were getting fair pay for the work, and I bet you didn't know that the program even covers their health insurance.

4) They PAID for a cultural learning experience. How is a sweatshop a learning experience? Other than "school of hard knocks."

No... They paid for J-1 work travel visa and connections for employment and housing. I went to the programs website. There is none of this pie in the sky promises of a Grand Tour of America nonsense. The only thing that is promised is a working vacation.

[JeanneCake]

If Hersheyland really wanted labor for the job, why go looking for foreigners? Why not hire from the ranks of the unemployed locals?

I can't imagine that it was easy for foreign students to earn enough to come up with $3000 to $6000 just to get here. Be honest about the work, the hours and the conditions. If someone still chooses to move forward, it is their choice. But to not be honest about the working conditions and the expenses, that's unethical. It's as if they are looking to take advantage of foreign workers.

[Tri2Cook]

A sweatshop on American soil, makes me wonder how they get away with it.

A whole lot of things happen on North American soil. The focus is kept on those things happening elsewhere because we really don't want to think about the fact that it happens in our own backyards.

If Hersheyland really wanted labor for the job, why go looking for foreigners? Why not hire from the ranks of the unemployed locals?

Because a large percentage of the unemployed have entitlement issues that cause them to say things like "I'm not doing that job" or "I'm not doing it for that pay".

I'm not defending or condemning Hershey, I've only heard one side of the story, but there's nothing shocking about the possibility of it happening.

[butterscotch]

If Hersheyland really wanted labor for the job, why go looking for foreigners? Why not hire from the ranks of the unemployed locals?

Because a large percentage of the unemployed have entitlement issues that cause them to say things like "I'm not doing that job" or "I'm not doing it for that pay".

Wow, you and I must be running in different circles. I know loads of people who'd love steady employment with benefits above minimum wage. Instead they are offered temp jobs with no bennies and lving paycheck to paycheck.

In NYC, minimum wage keeps you at or below poverty level- and no one is having a problem finding workers. Yet the conservatives would love to elimate a minimum wage all together. Maybe it;s a Canadian thing, this entitlement. Got any links to reports or studies on it?

[prasantrin]

I know loads of people who'd love steady employment with benefits above minimum wage. Instead they are offered temp jobs with no bennies and lving paycheck to paycheck.

And what do you think the jobs these students had were? Permanent positions with benefits? They were minimum wage (or close to it) short term positions with no benefits.

I don't know loads of people (and I live in Canada) who would take those jobs. In fact, when I worked in employment services (placing unskilled youth--defined as aged 18-30) in government internships), we had a very low 30% completion rate. Or maybe it was 15%; I can't remember now. And that was one of the highest completion rates in the country for this program.

Regarding this particular case, if you read about the program, information can be found at http://j1visa.state.gov/basics/, there is nothing about what was given to the students that was out-of-bounds EXCEPT perhaps the allegation that they were expected to pay for their time cards.

However, nothing has been said about what kind of contract had been signed prior to the students being employed. Were they aware of the position and the number of work hours per week expected? Were they informed that they would be charged for accommodations and how much they would be charged? Yes, there's a chance they weren't. But there's also a chance they were given the information, and just didn't pay attention to it or didn't understand it. I work with foreign students, so I know what it's like to explain the rules again and again, have students sign off on them, and then come back when they don't like their situation and say, "No one told me."

Not enough information has been given in this case to say whether what Hershey has/hasn't done is acceptable. But fortunately, just enough information has been given to make a mountain out of what could very well be a molehill.

[annabelle]

What Rona said.

[annabelle]

There are many factors that, well, factor into the statet of the economy at this present time. They did not happen in a vacuum or overnight but have been steadily percolating for over twenty years and are come to fruition. Job security has been non-existant since I was a teen and that was in the '70's. Anyway, this article doesn't sound like "sweatshop" conditions. Hershey is a very large company with a large philanthropic arm, indeed that is how the town of Hershey came to be, as an orphans home where the boys were employed at the chocolate factory. If these guest workers were being exploited, I'd wager that there would be at least one reply to the posted article that has a dateline of 28 August. These guest workers seem to have gotten wind of our litigious ways and perhaps try to exploit them.

For a closer look at true sweatshop conditions, not long hours in an OSHA approved warehouse/factory, there is a series on the BBC (I have forgotten its name) where a bunch of college students from the UK are taken to India and other countries that produce clothing items and sporting gear and are put to work there for a week. They are given lodging, food and expected to keep pace with the local workers, and yes, there is a language barrier. Everyone of the kids spends the better part of the show whining and bitching and not working...much.

[butterscotch]

If these guest workers were being exploited, I'd wager that there would be at least one reply to the posted article that has a dateline of 28 August. These guest workers seem to have gotten wind of our litigious ways and perhaps try to exploit them.

For a closer look at true sweatshop conditions, not long hours in an OSHA approved warehouse/factory, there is a series on the BBC (I have forgotten its name) where a bunch of college students from the UK are taken to India and other countries that produce clothing items and sporting gear and are put to work there for a week. They are given lodging, food and expected to keep pace with the local workers, and yes, there is a language barrier. Everyone of the kids spends the better part of the show whining and bitching and not working...much.

I never did say sweatshop, and it;s sad to think we should be comparing Hershey to third world manufacuters.

The program lacks oversight and saves employers millions. I have read it;s been a problem for years.

I applaud these kid's protest in pointing out that perhaps Hershey should just pay up the extra 8% in taxes and "give good jobs to local workers".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/06/j1-student-visa-abuse-for_n_792354.html

[annabelle]

I never did say sweatshop, and it;s sad to think we should be comparing Hershey to third world manufacuters.

The program lacks oversight and saves employers millions. I have read it;s been a problem for years.

I applaud these kid's protest in pointing out that perhaps Hershey should just pay up the extra 8% in taxes and "give good jobs to local workers".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/06/j1-student-visa-abuse-for_n_792354.html

You didn't say sweatshop, but it was said upthread. I agree that it is absurd to make such a comparison. As for what the guestworkers are getting paid, they are getting better than minimum wage. That's a whole lot more than the big fat zero dollars I got with every internship that I did as an undergrad and a grad student which added up to thousands of hours of free labor. I certainly hope the guestworkers never decide to pursue a career in medicine as they would surely flame out during residency, if they managed to get that far.

As far as hiring the townspeople, I don't think that is the issue. Hershey has offered the guestworkers an experience, not a career path.

[LindaK]

The J-1 visa program has been used extensively in the food service industry for years, particularly in parts of the country with high seasonal employment but few year-round residents to take summer jobs as waiters, dishwashers, etc,

The State Department’s website on the program: J-1 Visa

The site includes links to the various sponsorship organizations which are authorized to act as intermediaries between the student and employer. I searched the websites of a randomly-selected half-dozen. All offered placements in hotel kitchens and restaurants. Still other organizations appear to specialize in placements within the industry. They all charge for their services.

Or take a look at a site that aggregates J-1 job listings and search for chef, waiter, bartender, etc. Lots of demand within the food service industry.

As Annabelle noted, these are all short-term, seasonal positions that are meant to be cultural exchange experiences, not regular employment. That's no excuse for any employer to treat these students badly, of course.

[andiesenji]

These are young people who are being exploited because they pay up front to come to the U.S. for a "cultural experience" not factory work.

There are labor laws that state that companies employing more than a certain number of workers must pay overtime after the normal 8-hour shift.

This apparently does not apply to "guest" workers so the company saves many dollars by forcing a 12-hour work shift.

There are limits on how much workers have to lift, especially women. As these "guest" workers don't seem to fall into any worker category, they have to do what they are told or are threatened with deportation when they were INVITED to come here.

They are in some cases charged exorbitant rates for housing and food which they could probably get cheaper if allowed to get their own. This is exactly the same precept as the "company store" mentioned above.

They don't have a chance to see anything of America except the inside of a factory and inside what I would consider sub-standard and overcrowded housing.

They are possibly the next generation of leaders in their countries. If they go home with a bad opinion of the U.S., how do thing that is going to affect decisions they make in the future. Your kids and mine will have to live with it.

America should not be about how much a giant corporation can make off the labor of young people from other countries so they don't have to hire American citizens.

Edited September 3, 2011 by andiesenji (log)

[ScoopKW]

In reading dozens of news stories about this incident -- one thing is clear. The students say it was a financial hardship for their parents to pay the visa fee, They did not want to be deported because they needed to make as much of that fee back as possible, so they didn't go home empty-handed. Even assuming the best pay and the lowest visa price, each student is out $1,500 for the "privilege" of that great cultural experience of a graveyard-shift factory job, and company housing.

1) I would like to see this company housing, and know how many people were put in one room.

2) I want to know if the "docking students for the timecard" part of the story is true. If it is, than what ELSE was happening in Pennsylvania? Any company so petty as to charge workers for a timecard is certainly drifting into "sweatshop" territory.

3) What happened to the students? Last I heard, they were protesting in Times Square, after Hershey's offered them a bus ticket to compensate them for their lousy experience.

There is a DOJ investigation going on. But I have no confidence in the DOJ anymore -- at least not when they're investigating corporations.

[prasantrin]

I know loads of people who'd love steady employment with benefits above minimum wage. Instead they are offered temp jobs with no bennies and lving paycheck to paycheck.

And what do you think the jobs these students had were? Permanent positions with benefits? They were minimum wage (or close to it) short term positions with no benefits.

I don't know loads of people (and I live in Canada) who would take those jobs. In fact, when I worked in employment services (placing unskilled youth--defined as aged 18-30) in government internships), we had a very low 30% completion rate. Or maybe it was 15%; I can't remember now. And that was one of the highest completion rates in the country for this program.

Tha wages quoted above ARE above minimum wage in NYC. And another poster wrote that it did include health benefits- the corporation probably would have to set up some insurance if these kids were going to both live and work in a company set up.

It's great that you think the wages quoted are above minimum wage in NYC. But the incident happened in Pennsylvania, so minimum wage in NYC is irrelevant to this situation.

And it's great that another poster wrote that the position included health benefits. I have yet to read an article that states it so. And while the J-1 visa required employers to ensure participants have insurance, it does not require said employers to provide the health insurance. Participants themselves are required to purchase their own health insurance. If their employer agrees to provide it, great. But if the employer agrees to provide it at a cost to the participant (in the form of a wage deduction), then that should also be acceptable.

Like I said before, there has not been enough information provided to make any sort of rational judgment. If people choose to jump to conclusions in favour of one side or the other, then that's their right. But I choose to wait until I have enough evidence to make any sort of judgment.

And if you think Canadians are the only ones who turn their noses at low-paying jobs, you need to take a closer look at your own compatriots. And Europe ain't no paradise. Just ask the unemployed in Spain, Iceland, England, France. . .

[Tri2Cook]

Wow, you and I must be running in different circles.

I can't offer any real evidence regarding my statement you questioned, all I have is personal observation. So I'll concede that maybe there were plenty of people wanting those jobs working those hours at that rate of pay with the same benefits or lack thereof. I guess what I don't get is what the advantage of hiring foreign workers would be if that was the case. To the best of my knowledge, everything that applies to a working citizen of the U.S. or Canada applies to a legal foreign worker during the period of time covered by their visa. I'm not familiar with the cultural exchange worker program so maybe there are some loopholes in that one that I'm not aware of. Either way, I'm reserving my thoughts on Hershey specific until I know more than I know now.

[butterscotch]

[

It's great that you think the wages quoted are above minimum wage in NYC. But the incident happened in Pennsylvania, so minimum wage in NYC is irrelevant to this situation.

Like I said before, there has not been enough information provided to make any sort of rational judgment. If people choose to jump to conclusions in favour of one side or the other, then that's their right. But I choose to wait until I have enough evidence to make any sort of judgment.

And if you think Canadians are the only ones who turn their noses at low-paying jobs, you need to take a closer look at your own compatriots. And Europe ain't no paradise. Just ask the unemployed in Spain, Iceland, England, France. . .

They are, in fact, paying above both NY and PA minimum wage. I have grave doubts about any benefits if they are using the J1 program to cheat them out of overtime. My only point about the bennies was, if the job DID have benefits, you'd have Americans moving there to take it. At minimum wage. Those jobs do not exist anymore. People are that desperate, especialy those with children. In America, we are still over a barrel becuase we do not have the social services or safety net that all of the places you listed do. Big difference for the american worker. Huge.

And it's aided by companies exploiting loopholes like this J1 program which allows them not to pay their fair share of taxes- the ones that ironically pay for unemployment and social security benefits. It's great you're reserving judgement until you understand the issues better. But I don't have to. I am familiar with it, and the program has been under fire for years because it has no oversight at all, there's little to no cultural benefit, and it hurts the local and national economy when corporations import cheaper labour in an attempt to circumvent our labour laws. Hershey didn't invent this scam. they're just the newest employer to be called out for participating in it.

And in my book, rightfully so.

Edited September 3, 2011 by butterscotch (log)

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'm more curious about CETUSA, the international educational exchange organization, in this whole issue than Hershey's. CETUSA is a non-profit organization purporting to foster educational exchange and "citizen diplomacy," and I suspect they do some of that, but they also present themselves to potential employers as a staffing agency, and there are cases like this one, where those objectives are at odds.

If European students want to earn good money for a month of hard work in a kind of fun social environment with other international students and have a nice vacation for the rest of the summer, they can do things like picking strawberries in Sweden. They don't need to spend the money on a J-1 visa to the U.S. If they are coming to the U.S., I suspect that they are after something more than just a job, and if CETUSA is implying that they're going to get that kind of experience (the usual expectations might include living with an American host family, being in an environment where it is possible to meet Americans, practice English, and learn about American culture, and doing work that is more culturally interesting than warehouse packing), then I see them as being more at fault than Hershey's, which is just looking to hire labor, and may or may not be aware of the expectations of such employees.

[butterscotch]

Wow, you and I must be running in different circles.

I guess what I don't get is what the advantage of hiring foreign workers would be if that was the case. To the best of my knowledge, everything that applies to a working citizen of the U.S. or Canada applies to a legal foreign worker during the period of time covered by their visa. I'm not familiar with the cultural exchange worker program so maybe there are some loopholes in that one that I'm not aware of. Either way, I'm reserving my thoughts on Hershey specific until I know more than I know now.

Hershey's and any employer who enters the program do not have to follow the same laws at all that protect American workers.

And they save 8% on payroll taxes, and in return, get employees who pretty much feel stuck here after shelling out 3K for the privledge. and workers who won;t be here long enough to get them in any trouble.

it's pretty easy to see that most employers are doing it for the tax break. it would be easier to understand if unemployment weren't so high. there's an able workforce out there that needs decent jobs.

This program funnels these jobs to people who are cheaper to hire, and easier to exploit. And the fund for social security and UI benefits dwindle too. It's a double whammy for the American as well as the foreign student worker, but some people are making out really well on the deal. From what I've heard, Hershey's will no longer particiapate. So Im glad a light was shined on the situation.

[andiesenji]

I just got an interesting sidelight about this from a family member who worked at USD in D.C. during the early part of the last decade.

Some of these corporations, not specifically Hersey, got grants from the feds to pay for these student guest workers.

With some nimble bookkeeping and increased tax cuts, to further encourage participation, some of those corps, already making record profits, actually had practically no costs for this labor force.

She is now retired so has nothing to lose but any hint of an investigation into those practices during those years was tantamount to killing a career. People in her department were given notice that any contact with any media persons would be grounds for dismissal.

Perhaps that is why some of these investigations have just now come to light during the past couple of years.

[gfweb]

I'm glad I despise their chocolate.

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