New Kitchen Aid 1.3 Horsepower Mixer

[paulraphael]

Hi have to give you my new KA mixer horror story.

I had the basic stand up model for over 15 years and it worked like a dream.

A couple of years ago, my husband bought me a new Professional 6000 and let me tell you,

It's a piece of junk.

The plastic 'worm gear' went out after a year.

I spent $300 having it fixed and was told by the repairman (an authorized KA repairman)that I should have kept my old one. When whirlpool bought KA about 5 years ago, they started making their KA appliances very cheaply, using lots of plastic and inferior parts that at one point were metal and now replaced with plastic.

A couple weeks ago, I was grinding meat - partially frozen,very pliable per the instructions. After about 10 minutes, I heard the crunch of the gears going out - again.

I went on youtube and I think I can fix it myself with some inexpensive all metal parts that can purchased online.

I will never again by anything KA.

I think my next standing mixer will be a Hobart, but I heard they are made by whirlpool too.

Which model do you have? The pro 600?

That machine doesn't have a plastic worm gear.

Whirlpool didn't add any plastic drivetrain parts when they bought KA. The KA mixers always had a plastic "sacrificial gear," all the way back to the beginning of the company. The newer model bowl-lift mixers are the first mixers in KA history that have an all-metal drivetrain.

The plastic gear is designed to protect the motor and the larger gears from overload. The models that don't have it use a thermal overload protection circuit in its place. If someone is charging you $300 to replace the worm gear, they are ripping you off severely. KA's top of the line mixer can be bought as a factory refurb for much less than that.

Hobart mixers are not made by whirlpool. They are indeed heavier duty than any home mixer, and you will pay for for the difference.

[coz]

I'm looking for a stand mixer too. The KA 7qt models: the WS version is a lot cheaper than KA's website which is NSF certified. I assume the motor is the same. Does anyone know if anything is different?

I was looking at the Hobart N-50 but I can't seem to find many attachments for it like a meat grinder or pasta maker since it's a #10 size accessory port. Does anyone know if anything is available.

Do you think Hobart is worth 3X the price of the KA?

thanks

[tikidoc]

I don't know if it had a plastic gear or not, but my KA "Pro 600" died making a relatively small batch of wet dough, at the age of 2. $400+ down the drain. I will never buy another KA. I got rid of my old small one (big mistake) to upgrade, then it died so I got the 600, then it died.

I now have a Bosch Compact, which looks like a toy but doesn't even strain on doughs that used to make smoke come out of the KA, and an Electrolux Verona (formerly called the DLX). My only complaint about the Bosch is it's light weight, so you have to hold it to keep it from walking off the counter. The Verona is a tank. There is a bit of a learning curve to get used to the non-planetary motion but once you are used to it, it is awesome.

My advise? Get an old KA (pre-Whirlpool) or go with an Electrolux or a Bosch.

[coz]

That's sounds pretty bad. I think I want to get a stand mixer design because I want to grind meat too. I'll keep looking for info. The hobart seems bulletproof.

[tikidoc]

I have the meat grinder for the KA too, but it always struggled and the attachment sometimes fell off when in use.

The Bosch and the Electrolux both have a variety of attachments available, just like the KA. Both have meat grinders available. This is a link to the place where I got my mixer.

http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/magic_mill_dlx_mixer.aspx

http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/Bosch_Universal_Plus_Mixer_MUM6N10UC.aspx - this is the bigger Bosch, the Universal Plus. The Compact also has a bunch of attachments but if you want a heavy duty mixer, you would likely want the Universal.

I have the flaker attachment for the Electrolux and it works great. I'm keeping an eye out for other used attachments on eBay. Used attachments are not as easy to find as for the KA but they are out there.

The Hobart is a great machine too.

[paulraphael]

I don't know if it had a plastic gear or not, but my KA "Pro 600" died making a relatively small batch of wet dough, at the age of 2

How did it "die"?

Did you open it up to see what broke? All the parts are available online for fairly cheap.

The first incarnation of the pro600 had a plastic gearbox cover that could warp when it got hot and lead to gear failure.

They then upgraded it to a metal cover, when they were able to find a vendor who could injection mold magnesium into the required shape.

The new covers fit onto the old mixers with no modification. There are very few things likely to go wrong with that mixer that would cost more than $50 to fix.

If anyone gets a new Pro600, I'd recommend these steps:

1) pop it open and make sure you got the magnesium gear cover. It's highly unlikely that there are old plastic ones on the market, but it's worth being sure, especially if you bought a factory refurb (and I would never buy anything but a factory refurb ... they cost $240, which is about what the thing is worth, and there are no addtional quality control worries).

2) Break in the mixer slowly. Do a lot of easy mixing, like cakes, whipped cream etc., before taking on bread or grinding meat. The grease in the mixers is a vegetable-based lubricant (for food safety reasons) that has some quirks compared with petroleum or synthetic lubes. It is solid when cold, and often settles away from the gears when the mixer is stored or shipped. Running the mixer gently lets the mixer warm up and redistribute the grease under gentle load.

3) After that gentle break in, work it HARD. This is your opportunity to find defects while it's still under warranty. I don't mean abuse it, but use it for the hardest tasks it was designed for. KA has very spotty quality control, as people have discovered. So do Viking, Cuisinart, and Kenwood. In the U.S., KA has better warranty service than the others, so I think they have the strong advantage here. I wouldn't recommend KA in Europe.

If you do the above, and confirm that you don't have a lemon, you will have a very good mixer. I use mine hard, and it just hums along, getting only slightly warm under the biggest loads. It is not as mighty nor as well made as a Hobart, but it is as solid as anyone can expect for 1/4 the price.

[tikidoc]

I don't know exactly what is wrong with it. I called a repair place, they told me a minimum of $100 to do anything to it. As for what happened, it started smelling of burning things and then quit. Prior to that, it got very hot mixing anything thicker than egg whites or cream. When I get the time and inclination, I suppose I can open it up and see, and then sell it if it is fixable for a reasonable price. But this is my second dead KA in 5 years (the other was examined by a repair guy, was told about $200 to fix for that one). Both out of warrantee. I'm done.

[GlowingGhoul]

All the top of the line home stand mixers from:

Waring

Viking

Cuisinart

Hamilton Beach

are actually Kenwood mixers(and all the attachments are interchangeable between these brands, as well). Kenwood is the UK equivalent of Kitchenaid in regard to stand mixers.

Kenwood has an excellent reputation for solid, all metal gearing and workhorse motors.

I want the new one with induction heating http://www.kenwoodworld.com/uk/KenwoodCookingChef/Home1/The-Cooking-Chef/ .

[coz]

Ok here's some info if anyone is interested.

Thanks for the links on the bosch and electrolux. I watched some youtube videos demonstrating them. I'm going to read up on them some more.

The Hobart N-50 will take the Kitchenaid accesories #10 size.

The Kitchenaid 7qt: The Williams Sonoma version is slightly different from the commercial version (NSF rated, bowl design, all stainless paddles, 550 vs 800). I could kind of talk myself into the more expensive model however WS has an online sale this week of -25% off. So I don't think I would pay nearly double for it.

Chefs Choice has a nice all metal meat grinder attachment for these machines as opposed to KA's plastic version.

I'm leaning towards the WS 7qt Kitchenaid. The Hobart is great but 5X the price and less capacity. I won't use it that often so I don't need a commercial machine. The electrolux is nice but I'm not sure I understand if there are any benefits.

Regards

[tikidoc]

Benefits of the Electrolux, to me:

1. Build quality - they last like KAs used to. On the Yahoo Mixer group, there are several people with Electroluxes well over 30 years old, still going strong. I was tired of having KAs go out after 2 years.

2. Huge capacity - you can make a LOT of bread at once with this thing. I don't need the capacity every day (or even every week) but on occasion I do, and it is nice to have a machine that can handle both small and big batches.

3. Gluten development - based on my fairly limited experience (and comments on the Yahoo board as well), the gluten development seems superior to that I got with the KA. My breads have better texture with the Electrolux.

4. A timer - you can set the mating to knead for a certain amount of time, and unlike even my big KA, it does not bounce around on the countertop, so I don't have to babysit the machine when it is kneading dough.

I have also used the whisk and plastic bowl for making whipped cream, and it does just as good a job as the KA did.

[coz]

thanks tikidoc. I'm going to do some more thinking. Can you whip up egg whites?

[tikidoc]

I have not done egg whites with it yet, but I don't think it would be a problem. I have made whipped cream, and it did a fine job in a very short time. I also made whipped pumpkin cream cheese and it got very light and fluffy. You can whip from 1-18 egg whites, per Pleasant Hill Grain (where I bought mine). The folks on the Yahoo mixer group (a good source of information that I used a lot for research before buying the Electrolux) give it rave reviews for egg whites.

The Verona comes with 2 bowls, the metal bowl which uses the roller/scraper combination and the dough hook, and the plastic bowl for the whisks and the cake/cookie beaters. I find that the roller scraper does 80% of what I want to do - bread doughs, stiff cookie doughs, quick breads. I use the dough hook for larger batches of stiffer dough. The plastic bowl has a center column and the beaters attach to the top of this and spin more like a planetary mixer, so when you do egg whites or whipped cream, it will be more like using a KA except for the column in the middle. The whisk is for egg whites or whipped cream or frostings, the cookie beaters for heavier things that need to be whipped, like creaming butter or making cakes or cookie batters. For really heavy stuff, I go back to the roller/scraper, although I am still experimenting. I have only had the machine for a couple of weeks. I generally give lots of baked goods out over the holidays, so I will update my impressions once I have more experience with it.

One of the other things I like about this machine is that the top is pretty much open, so adding things to the mixer as it is going is easier than with the planetary mixers, with either bowl. I often ended up with flour all over my counters with the KA (even with the bowl cover with the chute), but that has not been an issue with the Electrolux.

I only have one optional attachment so far, the flaker mill, and I am happy with it and am looking for more attachments. The flaker makes great fresh oatmeal from oat groats, and can be used for other grains too. I enjoy the texture of the fresh oatmeal, and I would think the nutrition is better since it stays in it's whole form until the last minute.

Jess

[paulraphael]

KA vs. Elecrolux is really about planetary mixer vs. spiral mixer. Each has its advantages. Commercially spiral mixers are usually used for making huge volumes of dough. The design allows lots of dough to be worked without as powerful a motor or heavy gearbox as a planetary design. Planetary mixers are more popular for all-purpose use because of their versatilty. There's a lot of information online; bakers and pizza makers ask this question often.

If you REALLY need a heavy duty mixer, the best option may be a used 20 quart hobart. They often go for close to the price of the 5qt hobart, because no one wants to crate or ship the things. This of course depends on your being near a city where you can find one. They're not as huge as they sound. They sit on a countertop, and work just like any other 3-speed planetary mixer. A lot of people who run wedding cake businesses out of their homes use these. You can make bread in them all day long.

[Pierogi]

Re: the plastic bowl on the Electrolux. Wouldn't that absorb fat from the previously mixed cream/batters/etc. and negatively impact your egg whites? I've always heard (and perhaps its an old wives tale, but still, I've always heard) that egg white must be whipped in scrupulously cleaned metal bowls, or they won't whip up properly or hold after they're whipped. And, again "I've always heard...." that plastic could never be cleaned well enough, since the surface is porous, to ensure all the residual fat molecules were gone.

[baroness]

Re: the plastic bowl on the Electrolux. Wouldn't that absorb fat from the previously mixed cream/batters/etc. and negatively impact your egg whites? I've always heard (and perhaps its an old wives tale, but still, I've always heard) that egg white must be whipped in scrupulously cleaned metal bowls, or they won't whip up properly or hold after they're whipped. And, again "I've always heard...." that plastic could never be cleaned well enough, since the surface is porous, to ensure all the residual fat molecules were gone.

I had this exact problem with a plastic-bowled Krups mixer. No matter what I tried, I couldn't make meringues!

[tikidoc]

I too was told not to use plastic with egg whites but I have also read that this is more of an issue with hand whipping. I make sure not to use the scrubby portion of the sponge on the plastic bowl, and since the metal bowl covers the vast majority of what I do with the machine, I don't think it will be difficult to keep the plastic bowl in good shape. The replacement plastic bowl is relatively cheap ($25) so I think if I got into making lots of meringues, I would consider getting a spare bowl just for egg whites.

Most of what I do is bread and pizza doughs, and occasionally cookies (I use the roller scraper for that), so for me, this is a much better machine than the KA. For someone who makes lots of lighter batters like cakes and meringues, the KA may be a better choice. Or even a hand mixer might be fine.

[coz]

I almost bought the Hobart N50. I went to a chef supply store in Manhattan where they had one on display and some other brands. It's obviously very nice but I was surprised by the bowl. It felt a little flimsy to me and the 5qt size seemed smaller to me in person so I passed. Anyway I just ordered the KA 7qt from William Sonoma for $412 after the sale. I then ordered the stainless steel agitators from the commercial line from Kitchenaid for it. I figured that since I won't be using it too often I couldn't justify the Hobart price and I like the greater capacity of the KA at a fraction of the price. I've watched several videos of the Electrolux Verona/Asst and am intrigued so maybe I'll give that a shot someday!